Never bring an Umbrella to a gun fight

[smurthwaite]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1358559466' post='3079264']
Not enough to stop us.
[/quote] It seems to me that the only thing it takes to stop you is a determined rogue.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Spaniard United' timestamp='1358573243' post='3079630']
Oh RV ... I do love you. I especially love how you act as though you weren't there, perpetuating those "misdeeds". Makes my heart all warm and fuzzy.

o/ Anarchy Inc. et al
[/quote]
[color=#0000ff]My hands are more or less clean. The worst of the atrocities began only after the UJW, and I had little to do with it. All wars prior to then were justifiable. Some of the wars prior to FAN, particularly against ONOS, were questionable. However, when I left in disgust in late 2007 I atoned for my sins by defending the weak. In the years since then I have not abandoned my duty as a champion of justice. Sometimes it is necessary to have been part of an evil in order to effectively oppose it.[/color]

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358575008' post='3079646']
I love you guys. You know this but I have to disagree. You claim it was purposeful but all you have is speculation based on the timing. I'll admit you're probably right about the individuals working in collusion with Puppets but there is no real proof of it. Then, I've seen where Umb high gov had no clue this was going on. Usually the old addage was the membership pays for gov actions....this time the gov wasn't in on it IF there was anything to be in on.....so dunno. I think diplomacy could have worked something out. I just think you guys wanted this and I'm cool with it. Rather get this whole thing done now and move on but don't say it's a good CB when its really not Brehon. It could be if you have solid proof of collusion. All you have is wars declared within minutes of eachother which could actually be coincidence or puppets hitting AI on his own knowing his slots were getting taken by Umb but the Umb guys not knowing. Not so solid as you claim but reason nonetheless so I ain't mad. Let's just be honest and keep it in context here. If you have info that dispels my concerns here...by all means I'm open. Until then I see it as quite a bit opportunist and without a great deal of merit...a tiny shred but not much. I don;t even care about Umb and I like you guys and AI a great deal. I just call them like I see 'em.
[/quote]>implying that it wouldn't have to have been an astronomically improbable coincidence for the timing of those wars to have been anything except active coordination with M9OP to fill his slots
>implying that an alliance isn't composed of members, and when those members demonstrate an overwhelming predisposition to hostile actions, the alliance shouldn't be held accountable

[Horatio Longworth]

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMTDQZzQMKk&t=1s"]Do something![/url]

[Tequila Mockingbird]

if that was giggling at your expense it's now laughing

[Farrin Xies]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1358575554' post='3079655']

[color=#0000ff]My hands are more or less clean. The worst of the atrocities began only after the UJW, and I had little to do with it. All wars prior to then were justifiable. Some of the wars prior to FAN, particularly against ONOS, were questionable. However, when I left in disgust in late 2007 I atoned for my sins by defending the weak. In the years since then I have not abandoned my duty as a champion of justice. Sometimes it is necessary to have been part of an evil in order to effectively oppose it.[/color]
[/quote]

Because MK has never done "evil." Nope, no sirree.

[mosfunky]

War is war. Everyone has been hunting for a fight. Please stop pretending to have the high ground.

[magicninja]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1358575567' post='3079656']
>implying that it wouldn't have to have been an astronomically improbable coincidence for the timing of those wars to have been anything except active coordination with M9OP to fill his slots
>implying that an alliance isn't composed of members, and when those members demonstrate an overwhelming predisposition to hostile actions, the alliance shouldn't be held accountable
[/quote]

I said that I agree that it was [i]probably[/i] collusion......still leaves doubt without proof no? I remember a time we asked for solid proof for every CB.

Usually members behaving badly is solved by diplomacy. High gov member behaving badly is usually another story.

[Mogar]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358575760' post='3079662']
I said that I agree that it was [i]probably[/i] collusion......still leaves doubt without proof no? I remember a time we asked for solid proof for every CB.

Usually members behaving badly is solved by diplomacy. High gov member behaving badly is usually another story.
[/quote]
again, where was all this doubt last war when you guys rolled CSN for ZI'ing a spy? or is this just a case of double standards like usual in the cyberverse.

[shahenshah]

Its more than the CB Umbrella used on NPO.

[magicninja]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1358575872' post='3079663']
again, where was all this doubt last war when you guys rolled CSN for ZI'ing a spy? or is this just a case of double standards like usual in the cyberverse.
[/quote]

We weren't happy with the situation Mogar and I haven't really cared to talk to MK/DH since. It was one of the reasons we pressed no more aggressive action from over here.So no it isn't a case of double standards. It was a !@#$%^&* reason then and now.

[Beauty]

Umbrella's DoW on Fark had a CB? Oh ok.

[Mogar]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358576095' post='3079665']
We weren't happy with the situation Mogar and I haven't really cared to talk to MK/DH since. It was one of the reasons we pressed no more aggressive action from over here.So no it isn't a case of double standards. It was a !@#$%^&* reason then and now.
[/quote]
your group of allies and former allies has lowered the bar of what constitutes a real war so much the CB could have been "Because we don't like you." and it would have been more valid than some of the previous wars, you cant honestly expect people to sit and get rolled and then not use the same reasons to get revenge.

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358575008' post='3079646']
Words
[/quote]

It's not like they're your ordinary members. They either are gov, or have been gov, so they know what they were doing. To say it was all just a coincedence is really reaching for something that's not there.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Gibsonator21

[Crymson]

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1358567637' post='3079500']
Umbrella has been digging its own grave with the shovel of arrogance for a very long time. Now the pall-bearers have come to lay her soon to be broken cloth and steel down to rest. When you think you are above others, granting no room for parity, you lose sight of yourself. for there is no one in this world who stands alone. Will there be any grieving widows?
[/quote]

It appears that all those years of eating roadkill have damaged your brain.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358575760' post='3079662']
I said that I agree that it was [i]probably[/i] collusion......still leaves doubt without proof no? I remember a time we asked for solid proof for every CB.

Usually members behaving badly is solved by diplomacy. High gov member behaving badly is usually another story.
[/quote]In mathematics, we have a term for this. "Almost surely." It means that an event occurs with a probability of approximately, but not exactly, one. It allows for the infinitesimal possibility that ridiculous coincidences could occur in reality, with, in actual practice, negligible likelihood.

Is it [i]possible [/i]for this to have been one big misunderstanding and goofy coincidence? Did three Umbrella nations, all acting individually and of their own accord, just [i]happen[/i] to have hit him within 4 minutes of each other and within 4 minutes of his coming out of peace mode, at an odd hour of the day, despite previous negotiations that Umbrella would stay out of these things? Sure. It's [i]possible[/i]. The odds? Negligible.

We might as well begin questioning our very senses of the world around us, for it's just as likely that we are all plugged into a virtual reality on a hard drive that exists in a plane outside our own...

This is far above and beyond reasonable doubt. This exceeds all but the most unreasonable of doubt.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1358568926' post='3079535']
Thats all you have Crymson. The pain was watching top try and back door Valhalla for how long and seeing a great ally get hurt in the process. Hell its even been confirmed my johnny apocolypse back in this thread. As you continually called us liars and fear mongers. There is no pain that you can bring to us I await you on the field of battle.
[/quote]

I'd written up a response to this, but I've decided that I don't want to yet again get into this discussion with you.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Crymson

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Farrin Xies' timestamp='1358575758' post='3079660']
Because MK has never done "evil." Nope, no sirree.
[/quote]
[color=#0000ff]Not while I have been a member.[/color]

[shahenshah]

What? no counters from ever-ready well oiled war machines of the elite?

[magicninja]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1358576320' post='3079669']
your group of allies and former allies has lowered the bar of what constitutes a real war so much the CB could have been "Because we don't like you." and it would have been more valid than some of the previous wars, you cant honestly expect people to sit and get rolled and then not use the same reasons to get revenge.
[/quote]

I don't care. Fight for any reason you want. To me they're all reasonable. My problem is with people calling it airtight, best CB this decade etc. It's not and that's ok.

[Dre4mwe4ver]

and o7 to our allies in the Imperial Order and Pacifica. Give 'em Hell, and then some.

[Pariah]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1358576742' post='3079676']
[color=#0000ff]Not while I have been a member.[/color]
[/quote]

And that somehow displaces you from the situation, how? You joined the alliance, so I assume you thought it to be in your best interest to take upon you all that they stand for - past and present.

[AngryMidget]

[quote name='King Wally' timestamp='1358575162' post='3079649']
Did you just exit a time capsule from 2009? This is the most legit reason for a war we've been lucky enough to see in years.
[/quote]
Actually pretty much yeah. I've paid no mind to anything around here for the past few years.

[ooc]I just played the bills/collect game for a long time. I didn't even know what a Kaksus was until I was suddenly at war with them.

[Starfox101]

There's a storm coming, Umbrella. You and your friends better batten down the hatches, because when it hits, you're all gonna wonder how you ever thought you could live so large and leave so little for the rest of us.

I like this. It's about time.

[Thom98]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1358577084' post='3079684']
There's a storm coming, Umbrella. You and your friends better batten down the hatches, because when it hits, you're all gonna wonder how you ever thought you could live so large and leave so little for the rest of us.

I like this. It's about time.
[/quote]

It's looking like they only have fair weather friends guess that is where the name Umbrella came from.
Hope they are good at diverting nukes.
Must admit I'm surprised with all the wisdom there that they never saw this coming, or maybe the did. BFF sure ran away.