Announcement from The Order of the Paradox

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1353577346' post='3056157']
Why would we cancel on our friends?

We still have daily discussions with all of our allies and we've bled with all of them in the last 12 months apart from IRON.
[/quote]

bet that fence is giving you a mean nappy rash though right?

[Stewie]

Nope.

[Bill Wallace]

Obviously this is Crymson's fault.

[Rogal Dorn]

[quote name='Megamind' timestamp='1353548213' post='3055906']
Best of luck Argent. I hope your new friends are worth it.
[/quote]

uhh... hrmm. not sure how to respond to that one megamind, it sounds kinda !@#$%y, I wasn't expecting that out of you.

best of luck to Argent and TOP, cutting old ties is never a fun thing.

Edited November 22, 2012 by Rogal Dorn

[MCRABT]

Times sure are changing fast. Argent, IRON is here for you as always.

[President S O]

Condolences to TOP, Argent are a great ally and indeed a greater friend.

Best of luck, Argent!

[dem61s]

Does this mean I can't be friend with dio anymore?
Still love you buddy. ;_;

[iamthey]

Good luck TOP, it was fun while it lasted.

[Diomede]

Since I've been linked to this reply and a reply of my own is expected...
[quote name='dem61s' timestamp='1353614679' post='3056328']
Does this mean I can't be friend with dio anymore?
Still love you buddy. ;_;
[/quote]
A treaty between us is in neither alliance's best interests. That has no effect on individual friendships, so there may be a point where a treaty becomes viable again. That all depends on whether the foundations which the Argent-TOP relationship was built on can be repaired though. Should that be the case, you don't need a treaty to be friends so it would depend on the poltical viability and necessity.

In short, love you too, even if you are useless.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Diomede

[Crymson]

[quote name='Max Power' timestamp='1353573556' post='3056147']
A really stupid but probably necessary statement:

The one war you ever lost, TOP... Argent and IRON stayed with you through it and lost that war right there with you. The loss was arguably even more devastating for them than it was for you, considering they didn't get an eventual shiny new MK treaty out of it. I don't know if you'll lose another, but if you do, you won't have your best friends in Argent and IRON there with you. That'll hurt in ways rational calculations don't pick up sometimes.[/quote]

There's still the odd miconception, I see, that TOP was the leading force in how that war played out. MCRABT, amongst others who were present, can tell you that this was not the case. The preempt was a joint operation by TOP and the signatories of Duckroll, and the decision to launch it was formulated and agreed upon by all involved.

Where this treaty is involved, we haven't had much in common with Argent since Janax left. I won't bother with the "good luck" or "this was sad but necessary" or other assorted nonsense, as it is all trite in the extreme. Cybernations has been taking a dump for years now. These things happen and I care much less about them than I used to. Everything there is to do has been done before, and none of it is very interesting anymore; CN has not much of a future left, and even less at stake.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Crymson

[Enamel32]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1353868684' post='3057007']
There's still the odd miconception, I see, that TOP was the leading force in how that war played out. MCRABT, amongst others who were present, can tell you that this was not the case. The preempt was a joint operation by TOP and the signatories of Duckroll, and the decision to launch it was formulated and agreed upon by all involved.

Where this treaty is involved, we haven't had much in common with Argent since Janax left. I won't bother with the "good luck" or "this was sad but necessary" or other assorted nonsense, as it is all trite in the extreme. Cybernations has been taking a dump for years now. These things happen and I care much less about them than I used to. Everything there is to do has been done before, and none of it is very interesting anymore; CN has not much of a future left, and even less at stake.
[/quote]Translation: I'm gonna take over dah world while these haters getting mad.


Good luck to argent and top!

EDIT: I don't know how I didn't see this announcement until today! Maybe I saw it and forgot? That doesn't seem possible...

Edited November 25, 2012 by Enamel32

[Roadie]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1353868684' post='3057007']
There's still the odd miconception, I see, that TOP was the leading force in how that war played out. MCRABT, amongst others who were present, can tell you that this was not the case. The preempt was a joint operation by TOP and the signatories of Duckroll, and the decision to launch it was formulated and agreed upon by all involved.

[b]CN has not much of a future left, and even less at stake.[/b]
[/quote]


Either does TOP. *rimshot*

I'm not sure where the idea came along that preempting CnG was a TOP decision that others decided to support them on. At the time it seemed pretty well recognized that the idea was supported just as strongly by DR alliance (at least some) as it was by TOP. Sometime between then and now the narrative changed.

[Mompson]

[quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1353876662' post='3057039']
I'm not sure where the idea came along that preempting CnG was a TOP decision that others decided to support them on. At the time it seemed pretty well recognized that the idea was supported just as strongly by DR alliance (at least some) as it was by TOP. Sometime between then and now the narrative changed.
[/quote]
Most likely from the same place that has spawned ideas of Polar-TOP being allies at the time.

I'd imagine that people associate TOP with the leading force because they led the vocal criticism of Polar afterward, and eventually drew attention back to it by signing with MK. People like the "Old enemies becoming friends" story, so they look at TOP as being the head enemy of MK during Bi-Polar.

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1353868684' post='3057007']
There's still the odd miconception, I see, that TOP was the leading force in how that war played out. MCRABT, amongst others who were present, can tell you that this was not the case. The preempt was a joint operation by TOP and the signatories of Duckroll, and the decision to launch it was formulated and agreed upon by all involved.

Where this treaty is involved, we haven't had much in common with Argent since Janax left. I won't bother with the "good luck" or "this was sad but necessary" or other assorted nonsense, as it is all trite in the extreme. Cybernations has been taking a dump for years now. These things happen and I care much less about them than I used to. Everything there is to do has been done before, and none of it is very interesting anymore; CN has not much of a future left, and even less at stake.
[/quote]

Whats funny, is I believe you have personally received most of the blame when iirc, you suggested perhaps waiting another day. We were all there, and we were all responsible for the decision to go ahead.

The really sad thing to me, is how you guys interpreted that situation as compared to ours. We came out of that grueling war with drawn out negotiations (mainly stayed over the attempted foisting of absurd reps on you and TSO), with a gramlins post game for IRON, tighter nit than ever before. You guys apparently did not see the situation the same way.

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1353868684' post='3057007']
There's still the odd miconception, I see, that TOP was the leading force in how that war played out. MCRABT, amongst others who were present, can tell you that this was not the case. The preempt was a joint operation by TOP and the signatories of Duckroll, and the decision to launch it was formulated and agreed upon by all involved.

Where this treaty is involved, we haven't had much in common with Argent since Janax left. I won't bother with the "good luck" or "this was sad but necessary" or other assorted nonsense, as it is all trite in the extreme. Cybernations has been taking a dump for years now. These things happen and I care much less about them than I used to. Everything there is to do has been done before, and none of it is very interesting anymore; CN has not much of a future left, and even less at stake.
[/quote]

As an aside, while your apathy may be an effective shield against any sort of attachment, it doesn't do anyone any good until Armageddon does occur. If you're truly that apathetic, take a step back, because while many scoff at your credibility, I'd hazard a guess that your word still holds some merit in certain circles., like TOP.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Lord Curzon' timestamp='1353887423' post='3057064']
Whats funny, is I believe you have personally received most of the blame when iirc, you suggested perhaps waiting another day. We were all there, and we were all responsible for the decision to go ahead.

The really sad thing to me, is how you guys interpreted that situation as compared to ours. We came out of that grueling war with drawn out negotiations (mainly stayed over the attempted foisting of absurd reps on you and TSO), with a gramlins post game for IRON, tighter nit than ever before. You guys apparently did not see the situation the same way.
[/quote]

Yep, I wanted to wait, though I'll be overly honest as usual and note that this was mainly over organizational concerns; the drafting of target lists was going slower than expected, and we were cutting matters a bit too close to the wire as a result. In the event, DVDCCHN threw a fit over the suggestion, so I backed down. In retrospect, I should have insisted, but there was really no way that any of us could have predicted at the time what ended up happening next.

TOP and DR had different goals in the aftermath of Bipolar. You guys wanted to take some more time to rebuild and reload, and we wanted to get back into the thick of things. That was the point at which our paths diverged; had we similar priorities at the time, we may well have ended up very close with DR as a whole rather than only IRON.

[quote name='Lord Curzon' timestamp='1353887960' post='3057066']
As an aside, while your apathy may be an effective shield against any sort of attachment, it doesn't do anyone any good until Armageddon does occur. If you're truly that apathetic, take a step back, because while many scoff at your credibility, I'd hazard a guess that your word still holds some merit in certain circles., like TOP.
[/quote]

I'll always care about TOP, regardless of the sorry state that Cybernations might be in. That said, my reference was more to the repetitive and predictable responses in these threads than to my own interest or lack thereof. I'd edit it for clarification, but several people have quoted my original post already.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Crymson

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1353894210' post='3057088']

I'll always care about TOP, regardless of the sorry state that Cybernations might be in.
[/quote]

Then you might want to take his advice.

[Sephiroth]

Interesting move, I didn't expect to see this. Good luck to both alliances.

[WalkerNinja]

[quote name='Max Power' timestamp='1353573556' post='3056147']
A really stupid but probably necessary statement:

The one war you ever lost, TOP... Argent and IRON stayed with you through it and lost that war right there with you. The loss was arguably even more devastating for them than it was for you, considering they didn't get an eventual shiny new MK treaty out of it. I don't know if you'll lose another, but if you do, you won't have your best friends in Argent and IRON there with you. That'll hurt in ways rational calculations don't pick up sometimes.[/quote]

There was a time where we worked well together--that's true. Staying together because we used to work well together is nostalgia, not wisdom.

TBH, the timing of these two course corrections is basically coincidental. There had always been a degree of clash with Argent because we wanted to be dynamic and disruptive, and they wanted to play conservative. Having never settled on a unified course or even established common values or methods, it was really only a matter of time.

Doubts about our relationship with IRON began well over a year ago when we stopped recognizing about 90% of the people on the IRON Council. Once MCRABT became the senior-most Councilor, the writing was on the wall.

[trimm]

[quote name='WalkerNinja' timestamp='1353897794' post='3057098']
There was a time where we worked well together--that's true. Staying together because we used to work well together is nostalgia, not wisdom.

TBH, the timing of these two course corrections is basically coincidental. There had always been a degree of clash with Argent because we wanted to be dynamic and disruptive, and they wanted to play conservative. Having never settled on a unified course or even established common values or methods, it was really only a matter of time.

Doubts about our relationship with IRON began well over a year ago when we stopped recognizing about 90% of the people on the IRON Council. Once MCRABT became the senior-most Councilor, the writing was on the wall.
[/quote]

Well that's one way of describing it.

[shahenshah]

[quote name='WalkerNinja' timestamp='1353897794' post='3057098']
Once MCRABT became the senior-most Councilor, the writing was on the wall.
[/quote]
There are many variables and reasons that led to this but Rab is not one of them. We all will be greatly discounting alot of variables that affected us both that led to this by trying to pin it on a couple people here and there.

Edited November 26, 2012 by shahenshah

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='WalkerNinja' timestamp='1353897794' post='3057098']
There was a time where we worked well together--that's true. Staying together because we used to work well together is nostalgia, not wisdom.

TBH, the timing of these two course corrections is basically coincidental. There had always been a degree of clash with Argent because we wanted to be dynamic and disruptive, and they wanted to play conservative. Having never settled on a unified course or even established common values or methods, it was really only a matter of time.

Doubts about our relationship with IRON began well over a year ago when we stopped recognizing about 90% of the people on the IRON Council. Once MCRABT became the senior-most Councilor, the writing was on the wall.
[/quote]

[quote name='trimm' timestamp='1353899085' post='3057103']
Well that's one way of describing it.
[/quote]

Yeah... thought so

"The difference between how you look and how you see yourself is enough to kill most people"

edited: to add in WN's quote for context

Edited November 26, 2012 by Lord Curzon

[Crymson]

[quote name='Lord Curzon' timestamp='1353903103' post='3057113']
Yeah... thought so

"The difference between how you look and how you see yourself is enough to kill most people"

edited: to add in WN's quote for context
[/quote]

I don't get it.

[Eumirbago]

Damn, never knew things became that bad...

[flak attack]

[quote name='Diomede' timestamp='1353551958' post='3055979']
that bloc might be better than GUARD. But only just.
[/quote]
Let's be honest, it still would beat out XX too.