Hearts Of Iron Are Broken, II Of Them

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1353071289' post='3053299']
I agree, it is very silly to compare DH's to NPO. One of the aforementioned entities shaped this realm's politics permanently and the other is just a very cheap knock off.
[/quote]

I dunno.. we could compare how well the two used TOP.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Lord Valleo' timestamp='1353110559' post='3053480']
Some say the NPO is still "irrelevant" so we could not possibly be a part of such a war
[/quote]
[color=#0000ff]Well, doing nothing for years on end is one way to become relevant. It worked for MHA, although to be honest they didn't seem to stay relevant once they finally did decide to do something. Let's hope it works better for you fellows![/color]

[color=#0000ff]That said, I am surprised to see this treaty canceled. Good luck to TOP. I would extend the same courtesy to IRON, but to be honest I never have really cared for your alliance (not even when I was in NSO and allied to you).[/color]

[color=#0000ff]Do not think that I have forgotten that IRON, not NPO, was the first alliance to place me on a PZI list (a good dog will do anything to please its master). Tell me, can we again look forward to having such adventures together?[/color]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1353036118' post='3053172']
You're kidding yourself if you think you can take on the mantle of "the bad guy" and not eventually have to pay for it.
[/quote]
[color=#0000ff]Are you kidding me? If the Kingdom were "the bad guy" why would I be a member? I was an obnoxious moralist back when you were still making idiotic statements. I may not be as much as a crusader as I once was, but I see that you are still making senseless comments. It is true, there are some things that never change.[/color]

Edited November 17, 2012 by Rebel Virginia

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1353131802' post='3053618']
[color=#0000ff]Tell me, can we again look forward to having such adventures together?[/color]
[/quote]
Unfortunately you're not special anymore and we shut down that list long long ago.

Edited November 17, 2012 by shahenshah

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1353018009' post='3053014']
Actually, necessary implies need. It was a choice that was needed. Which brings me to:


Lol what? An involuntary decision? There is no such thing. A decision is a choice between two (or more) options. Involuntary means you had no choice. It's impossible to not have a choice and have a choice at the same time. That's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.
[/quote]

This brings up an important philosphical question: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X68dm92HVI"]are we really in control of our decisions[/url]? At the end of the day, us humans are little more than a bunch of chemical elements aggregated into a complex being with our cognitive functions merely being a reaction to external stimuli. Each circumstance thrusted upon an individual offers a different reaction between all of the neurons (i.e. a hormone says I'm hungry, so I get up to walk to the fridge; there's pasta and pizza in there, which sends do not want Neurotransmitters, and instead each stimuli [or lack thereof] and reaction leads me to order Chinese food). In that sense, all decisions are involuntarily, since each 'decision' is merely a complex chain of cognitative events of chemical exchanges that was destined to reach said conclusion and act on it.

Thus, the important question must be asked: Did IRON really voluntarily cancel on TOP?

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1353135715' post='3053633']
Unfortunately you're not special anymore and we shut down that list long long ago.
[/quote]
[color=#0000ff]I have always been special and remain so. Are your memories so short that I must remind you why? If that is the case you may need that list once again.[/color]

[Commander shepard]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1353131802' post='3053618']

[color=#0000ff]Are you kidding me? If the Kingdom were "the bad guy" why would I be a member? I was an obnoxious moralist back when you were still making idiotic statements. I may not be as much as a crusader as I once was, but I see that you are still making senseless comments. It is true, there are some things that never change.[/color]
[/quote]


Perhaps they see you as a trophy they claimed for themselves by luring you into their alliance, to remind themselves of the good days.
Every time they see you post they laugh and get a shot of nostalgia.

[MCRABT]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1353131802' post='3053618']
[color=#0000FF]Well, doing nothing for years on end is one way to become relevant. It worked for MHA, although to be honest they didn't seem to stay relevant once they finally did decide to do something. Let's hope it works better for you fellows![/color]

[color=#0000FF]That said, I am surprised to see this treaty canceled. Good luck to TOP. I would extend the same courtesy to IRON, but to be honest I never have really cared for your alliance (not even when I was in NSO and allied to you).[/color]

[color=#0000FF]Do not think that I have forgotten that IRON, not NPO, was the first alliance to place me on a PZI list (a good dog will do anything to please its master). Tell me, can we again look forward to having such adventures together?[/color]


[color=#0000FF]Are you kidding me? If the Kingdom were "the bad guy" why would I be a member? I was an obnoxious moralist back when you were still making idiotic statements. I may not be as much as a crusader as I once was, but I see that you are still making senseless comments. It is true, there are some things that never change.[/color]
[/quote]

The great RV educating the world on innovation with one breath and trying to pawn the left over hogwash from 3 years back with the next. I'm glad you haven't forgotten, it demonstrates quite nicely your inability to move on from the past, which makes the paradox of your post quite delightful.


[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1353137136' post='3053637']
[color=#0000ff]I have always been special and remain so. Are your memories so short that I must remind you why? If that is the case you may need that list once again.[/color]
[/quote]

I know I know! It's because you write everything in the colour blue right? It makes your posts stand out from the bog standard black text which makes you feel special simultaneously placating your ADD. I think I will write in [color=red]red from now on and we can be special together.[/color]

[Alterego]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1353131802' post='3053618']
[color=#0000ff]That said, I am surprised to see this treaty canceled. Good luck to TOP. I would extend the same courtesy to IRON, but to be honest I never have really cared for your alliance (not even when I was in NSO and allied to you).[/color]

[color=#0000ff]Do not think that I have forgotten that IRON, not NPO, was the first alliance to place me on a PZI list (a good dog will do anything to please its master). Tell me, can we again look forward to having such adventures together?[/color]

[/quote]


You cant criticise anyone for holding a grudge ever again and you cant deny you are nothing but an anti-NPO agent. Another vox fake exposed as just a NPO hater.

[Sultan Ahmed]

[quote][color=#0000ff]Are you kidding me? If the Kingdom were "the bad guy" why would I be a member? I was an obnoxious moralist back when you were still making idiotic statements. I may not be as much as a crusader as I once was, but I see that you are still making senseless comments. It is true, there are some things that never change. [/quote] [/color]

I was a moralist. I am in MK. Therefore, MK cannot be bad. Makes perfect sense to me.


edit: Good luck to IRON and props for making such a decision.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Sultan Ahmed

[Alterego]

[quote name='Sultan Ahmed' timestamp='1353155116' post='3053685']
[/color]

I was a moralist. I am in MK. Therefore, MK cannot be bad. Makes perfect sense to me.


edit: Good luck to IRON and props for making such a decision.
[/quote]

He doesnt care about morals he just positions himself on the opposite side of NPO and pretends he cares about right and wrong. He was and continues to be the biggest but not only fraud connected to Vox

[Facade]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1353115630' post='3053515']
Lines being drawn between cent and charles stuart.


[/quote]

I think Charles has drawn a line between himself and every ruler.

Also, congrats IRON.

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Facade' timestamp='1353159972' post='3053695']
I think Charles has drawn a line between himself and every ruler.
[/quote]
Then its a circle

Edited November 17, 2012 by shahenshah

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1353136941' post='3053636']


This brings up an important philosphical question: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X68dm92HVI"]are we really in control of our decisions[/url]? At the end of the day, us humans are little more than a bunch of chemical elements aggregated into a complex being with our cognitive functions merely being a reaction to external stimuli. Each circumstance thrusted upon an individual offers a different reaction between all of the neurons (i.e. a hormone says I'm hungry, so I get up to walk to the fridge; there's pasta and pizza in there, which sends do not want Neurotransmitters, and instead each stimuli [or lack thereof] and reaction leads me to order Chinese food). In that sense, all decisions are involuntarily, since each 'decision' is merely a complex chain of cognitative events of chemical exchanges that was destined to reach said conclusion and act on it.

Thus, the important question must be asked: Did IRON really voluntarily cancel on TOP?
[/quote]

I am a compatablist. The determinist laws and free will are compatable in my view. Look that up (I'd get you a lInk but on phone)

Also being a metaphysical idealist I don't see any problem between mental and physical causation. Your move Sith Lord >

[Salmia]

Not to strike up a discussion about Vox again, but RV wasn't a "fraud" in the terms of Vox. Vox had people join for all different reasons that varied, he had his own and the goal was to take down NPO. They succeeded in that.

Now I disagree with the whole nonsense of hating on alliances for things that happened years ago. There are plenty of things to dislike alliances for in recent years. Alliances have had huge changes in leadership over the years and to claim alliances are the exact same alliance they were as 3 years ago is ignorant of that. Now if someone wants to hold a grudge indefinitely against an alliance, that is their call. Just hate a new person once in a while, please or strike up a new grudge.

To bring this back to the main point: IRON and TOP simply, with changes that occur over time, reached this point.

[DeathAdder]

Clearly a very tough decision, but not overly surprising.

Good luck to both in their future endeavors.

o/ IRON.

Edited November 17, 2012 by DeathAdder

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1353153913' post='3053681']
The great RV educating the world on innovation with one breath and trying to pawn the left over hogwash from 3 years back with the next. I'm glad you haven't forgotten, it demonstrates quite nicely your inability to move on from the past, which makes the paradox of your post quite delightful.




I know I know! It's because you write everything in the colour blue right? It makes your posts stand out from the bog standard black text which makes you feel special simultaneously placating your ADD. I think I will write in [color=red]red from now on and we can be special together.[/color]
[/quote]
[color=#0000ff]That you have little to say to me, other than a fruitless attack upon my impeccable character, demonstrates the hollowness of your words. I am universally recognized as a pillar of virtue. On the matter of innovation, I am a maverick. A maverick crusader if you will, on an unending pursuit of justice. I fought your alliance long ago, and how little things have changed. The same villains remain in control of your alliance, and once again have tasted power and been driven insane by it. It will be long now before the blood lust returns, and I fear that it will be as insatiable as it was last time. Hopefully next time will be the last time, once and for all.[/color]

Edited November 18, 2012 by Rebel Virginia

[Aeros]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1353212845' post='3054015']
[color=#0000ff]That you have little to say to me, other than a fruitless attack upon my impeccable character, demonstrates the hollowness of your words. I am universally recognized as a pillar of virtue. On the matter of innovation, I am a maverick. A maverick crusader if you will, on an unending pursuit of justice. I fought your alliance long ago, and how little things have changed. The same villains remain in control of your alliance, and once again have tasted power and been driven insane by it. It will be long now before the blood lust returns, and I fear that it will be as insatiable as it was last time. Hopefully next time will be the last time, once and for all.[/color]
[/quote]

You know, my humble little nation declared its presence on Bob in 2010. I missed all the fun of Karma, Bi-polar, even "Everything. Must. Die", which started a mere week after I ascended to the throne of Chyrellos. By and large, I have been a passive spectator to the events of this world, and a student of its history. I cannot speak for IRON, but I can say I have watched them. Their rise to the position of the most powerful non-neutral alliance in CN was not a result of their own avarice, but rather a result of the fact that certain alliances (yours) pushed hard to incinerate everything not tied down to them in some meaningful way. There is no insatiable lust for power. Merely the realization that after 3 years of destroying every power bloc that supported the Karma Revolution, only one group of alliances remains.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1353214739' post='3054023']
You know, my humble little nation declared its presence on Bob in 2010. I missed all the fun of Karma, Bi-polar, even "Everything. Must. Die", which started a mere week after I ascended to the throne of Chyrellos. By and large, I have been a passive spectator to the events of this world, and a student of its history. I cannot speak for IRON, but I can say I have watched them. Their rise to the position of the most powerful non-neutral alliance in CN was not a result of their own avarice, but rather a result of the fact that certain alliances (yours) pushed hard to incinerate everything not tied down to them in some meaningful way. There is no insatiable lust for power. Merely the realization that after 3 years of destroying every power bloc that supported the Karma Revolution, only one group of alliances remains.
[/quote]
[color=#0000ff]IRON was long a neutral alliance, but in 2007 it was decided that neutrality did not help their ambitions. Rather than stick to their principles they became a lackey to the NPO, and aided in the execution of some of the most heinous crimes ever committed. That you leave out the definitive years of IRON's history shows the extent of your ignorance of their character. They have no qualms betraying allies to fulfill their insatiable desire for power.[/color]

[color=#0000ff]Once again they have cast their lot in with the NPO, which is seemingly ready to return to its own ways. The sad part is IRON, in the end, does not even have any real power. They will be nothing more but an instrument of Pacifican domination, one of Brehon's mad attack dogs. It would seem that IRON too, for cheap rewards, has no issues in betraying itself as well.[/color]

[Mogar]

TOP doesnt betray people, IRON is the evil ones.

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1353219633' post='3054049']
TOP doesnt betray people, IRON is the evil ones.
[/quote]
We also lie, cheat and steal.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1353219633' post='3054049']
TOP doesnt betray people, IRON is the evil ones.
[/quote]
[color=#0000ff]To call IRON evil is to assume they have any control over their own affairs, which gives them more credit than is deserved. Let us all be honest here and stop denying that the NPO is running IRON and directing its actions.[/color]

[Aeros]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1353216823' post='3054030']
[color=#0000FF] They will be nothing more but an instrument of Pacifican domination, one of Brehon's mad attack dogs. It would seem that IRON too, for cheap rewards, has no issues in betraying itself as well.[/color]
[/quote]

hmm

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1353221758' post='3054063']
[color=#0000ff]To call IRON evil is to assume they have any control over their own affairs, which gives them more credit than is deserved. Let us all be honest here and stop denying that the NPO is running IRON and directing its actions.[/color]
[/quote]

Now I am confused. At 12:34 AM Bob time, IRON was dominated by the New Pacific Order. A mere 1.5 hours later, IRON was no longer dominated by the NPO but, rather by shadowy forces hiding behind the curtain. You have my curiousity now. Who has the power to change the very course of events on Bob, not even overnight, but literally in the space of time between one cup of coffee and another

[Rebel Virginia]

[color=#0000ff]I suggest you work on your comprehensions skills. In both statements I declared IRON to be controlled and directed by the NPO to further the Pacifican agenda. As always, I am consistent. That you lack the intelligence to understand, I can do nothing about.[/color]

[D34th]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1353212845' post='3054015']
[color=#0000FF]I am universally recognized as a pillar of virtue. [/color]
[/quote]

Thanks for the good laugh, please never change.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1353216823' post='3054030']
[color=#0000ff]IRON was long a neutral alliance...[/color]
[/quote]

Lies, they were independent.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1353222383' post='3054067']
Lies, they were independent.
[/quote]
[color=#0000ff]That is a delusion IRON indulged in days long past to come to terms with their cowardly nature. Although they would say they simply remained outside of conflict, the truth is that they have never had the courage needed to stand for anything.[/color]