He Who Has No Name Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Much like the stink on a pair of socks left under the bed too long, or an unpopular character in a bad soap opera who happens to also be the show's producer... mhawk, The Big Bad, and the rest of the TPF circus keep coming back after people earlier really celebrated their departure. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Alright, I got 4 PMs asking why I'm anti-TPF and/or angry. Time to step back. (1) I am not anti-TPF, TPF have been good and loyal allies to NPO, which is why I said it must suck to get the reception they got from some people on their own side. (2) I am anti-treaty messes, and that is why I said that someone always gets screwed, because it's true. It's true whether it's TPF or Europa or Æsir or GATO, and whenever I make that comment, it is a commentary on the bad foreign policy practice of signing treaties that pull any alliance in opposite directions. Treaties are political tools, not friendship rings; no matter how many treaties you sign based on friendship, when the rubber hits the road, politics kicks in. (3) When some idiot like Daeryon implies I'm missing out by not being in a coalition with TPF when I was [i]just [/i]in the worst coalition in recent memory with TPF (DH-NPO war), I [i]do [/i]Hulk-out, and that [b][i]was [/i][/b]a crappy, crappy coalition whose strategy I'll be hearing peacemode jokes about for years, so eat dirt, Daeryon. At the end of the day, as I've already said, The Avengers have a passable reason for war, and as long as they can keep themselves from committing the abuses so intrinsic to the allies they're going to inevitably tap in, then I'm perfectly fine with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omfghi2u2 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='mhawk' timestamp='1323062740' post='2863314'] You realize we are attacking FAN, whom initiated the war with NPO. I'm not sure how that is ganging up on anyone. [/quote] I could have sworn FARK attacked NPO too... -omfg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memoryproblems Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1323065824' post='2863425'] Alright, I got 4 PMs asking why I'm anti-TPF and/or angry. Time to step back. (1) I am not anti-TPF, TPF have been good and loyal allies to NPO, which is why I said it must suck to get the reception they got from some people on their own side. (2) I am anti-treaty messes, and that is why I said that someone always gets screwed, because it's true. It's true whether it's TPF or Europa or Æsir or GATO, and whenever I make that comment, it is a commentary on the bad foreign policy practice of signing treaties that pull any alliance in opposite directions. Treaties are political tools, not friendship rings; no matter how many treaties you sign based on friendship, when the rubber hits the road, politics kicks in. (3) When some idiot like Daeryon implies I'm missing out by not being in a coalition with TPF when I was [i]just [/i]in the worst coalition in recent memory with TPF (DH-NPO war), I [i]do [/i]Hulk-out, and that [b][i]was [/i][/b]a crappy, crappy coalition whose strategy I'll be hearing peacemode jokes about for years, so eat dirt, Daeryon. At the end of the day, as I've already said, The Avengers have a passable reason for war, and as long as they can keep themselves from committing the abuses so intrinsic to the allies they're going to inevitably tap in, then I'm perfectly fine with it. [/quote] I don't think any of us were happy with it, but I don't think its appropriate to really assign blame anywhere in that fiasco. If you try your hardest and make the best decision you can with the information you have, then you have nothing to apologize for even if it all went south. You can say that your sorry for not thinking about this or that, but at the end of the day, you can't put information that you don't know to use. To put it oddly in a fashion that pretty much goes against the other saying, you can't make lemonade if you don't have lemons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathcat Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='He Who Has No Name' timestamp='1323065764' post='2863422'] Much like the stink on a pair of socks left under the bed too long, or an unpopular character in a bad soap opera who happens to also be the show's producer... mhawk, The Big Bad, and the rest of the TPF circus keep coming back after people earlier really celebrated their departure. Oh well. [/quote] We keep them around so the real warriors are able to lob nukes with their playthings. Well, they do get a bit bored hanging at the retirement center... you can only grow your ZZTop beards so long before you have to get up and rock out with your biggest FANs Much respect to FAN. You've earned it, now its time to kick CN into high gear and have some fun again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadshot Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Glad to have ya o/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDRocks Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1323065549' post='2863412'] They were pretty pissed with NpO actually. Not for turning on TOP but for other things. [/quote] There is a 400 page thread on MK's forum that should show you insight on how CnG felt during BiPolar. I understand its only MK and Polar members but I think the rest of CnG would agree with MK's opinion at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Best of luck to our friends and allies at TPF. Sadly, due to treaty obligations, we end up on opposite sides of the war once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol Navy Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1323070294' post='2863468'] Best of luck to our friends and allies at TPF. Sadly, due to treaty obligations, we end up on opposite sides of the war once again. [/quote] Thanks Tyga, best of luck to you guys too. You guys stand by your treaties come hell or high water and we love that about you guys. Before this pre-empt I was really hoping to get another chomp at WAPA. Their terrible is legendary in the halls of TPF from BiPolar when we fought them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander shepard Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I was wondering where you would go and well FAN made it easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beauty Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 TPF has done a pretty good job on their blitz. I've enjoyed fighting you guys in the past, but i still hope you all get rolled. o/ FAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Equus Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Best of luck to our friends in TPF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted December 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='He Who Has No Name' timestamp='1323065764' post='2863422'] Much like the stink on a pair of socks left under the bed too long, or an unpopular character in a bad soap opera who happens to also be the show's producer... mhawk, The Big Bad, and the rest of the TPF circus keep coming back after people earlier really celebrated their departure. Oh well. [/quote] There is no joy in fighting you guys again. However I can think of no finer opponent to cross swords with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elorian Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 So if TPF gets countered, the pony alliance defends them? *shudders* This world, it is so messed up of late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1323063482' post='2863350'] [Vox]Polaris doesn't have to be an archon of light for a war against them to be crap. That was true in noCB and it's true today, we haven't all subjugated our ideals to our treaties.[/Vox] And again, you're saying the same thing I said. TPF has conflicting treaties, someone gets screwed. Today it's STA.[/quote] In making the distinction between an alliance's ideals and its loyalties, you intrinsically appeal to an implied impersonal criterion which may not be universally held. This standard principally rests upon the assumption that an alliance necessarily must hold a set of ideological metrics, and that at times this set of metrics must come into conflict with their allegiances. Your use of the criterion presumes that when an alliance's loyalties override those metrics they can be evaluated as a bad alliance. What you fail to take into account is that some alliances do not embody such a dualism, and that they may simply derive their sense of obligation and duty from their contractual allegiances (or some entirely distinct and yet unexpressed construct) rather than from a pairing of the two. Your rhetoric is predicated on what is an arbitrarily asserted moral fiction masquerading as objective fact. Therefore, proposition and counter proposition must either be the same: thus rendering the dispute meaningless, or the two propositions must be irreconcilable. If the latter is the case it entails that this discourse necessarily collapses into a conflict of wills whereby the manipulative use and transcendent meaning of moral language is unrelated. While you are not wrong for employing the various rhetorical instruments that you have, you have only actually expressed your own private disapproval (with an earnest encouragement for others to share in your view) for the actions of those arrayed against polaris- something that may or may not be less moving to others. EDIT: I would like to also express my private approval of The Phoenix Federation's actions and heartily encourage everyone else to do the same. Edited December 5, 2011 by iamthey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanilla Napalm Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 This thread really was rather enjoyable. I love Schatts new 'support a pre-emptive strike/ revenge on NPO' stylings. [center]VOX and VOX and VOX 'we haven't all subjugated our ideals' VOX and VOX and VOX[/center] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I really do like all the chaos this war is causing, all we need now is for at least one bloc to be torn apart due to internal drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeternos Astramora Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1323079079' post='2863565'] I really do like all the chaos this war is causing, all we need now is for at least one bloc to be torn apart due to internal drama. [/quote] PF, definitely PF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='Aeternos Astramora' timestamp='1323079126' post='2863566'] PF, definitely PF. [/quote] I did say at least one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1323079079' post='2863565'] I really do like all the chaos this war is causing, all we need now is for at least one bloc to be torn apart due to internal drama. [/quote] INT not getting to hit NoR could drive them into a suicidal rage only satisfied by feasting on the blood of it's soon-to-be former bloc mates. That's where the smart money is betting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Expects Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 o/ To out allies and friends in TPF. Keep rolling that hard six Mhawk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weirdgus Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 The Phoenix Hungers! o/ our TPF brothers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarmatian Empire Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Kick ass out there guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londo Mollari Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1323064806' post='2863400'] I really don't like Polaris, so it's of particular "ugh" that the rhetoric of persons and alliances that Polaris manhandled, manipulated, or both makes me giggle day in and day out of this war. Polaris is past its prime, but its only now that the unwashed masses can bear to face them. I'm [i]soooo [/i]impressed.[/quote] The Great Blue !@#$pile, if it ever was in its prime, long since passed it before I came to this place. I have not seem them display anything approaching competence in any war. [quote]My apologies. First of all, Cult of Justitia says what it means, so when we want an ODOAP, that's what we sign, and when I see "MDOAP" that's what I think. Second, NPO involved itself in this conflict with its pending declaration of war declaration. [/quote] So you don't sign non-chaining MDoAP's then? You realize that they are different from ODOAP or autochaining MDoAP right? [quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' timestamp='1323064816' post='2863401'] Funny, I don't exactly remember CnG complaining about Polar's misdeeds during the BiPolar conflict. [/quote] Athens was |-| this close to declaring on Polar when Polar hit \m/, and bringing the inferno. We were barely restrained from it by the wishes of MK, and it caused an incredible strain within CnG that helped put cracks in the bloc that were never really fixed. We couldn't hit Polar and make MK look like a !@#$%* ally for not defending them, and we couldn't hit Polar when they were supposed to be on our own damn side against TOP. MK had no idea that Grub would go !@#$% insane and do that, but it caused huge problems for us, and if I'd been just a little madder and a little less calculating (and had any less respect for MK than I did - that went a long, long way to preventing us from going in, even when the rest of our gov really wanted to) - then the BiPolar war would have had a very different history. And if Polar had actually declared on Poison Clan instead of just \m/ (that was a !@#$@#$ !@#$% move, Grub), then I can tell you that we would have gone in regardless of anything else. Suffice to say, that I'm glad that Polar didn't straight up betray our side, but what they did was almost worse. [quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1323065549' post='2863412'] They were pretty pissed with NpO actually. Not for turning on TOP but for other things. [/quote] Everyone was pissed with NpO. I won't say that they can't redeem themselves, but they've shown no sign of wanting to do so even. I think they should be given the terms they gave to \m/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balkan Banania Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 One can not ask for better allies. Welcome brothers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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