Nordreich Kaiserlich Decree

[lamuella]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1299251546' post='2652464']
Depends on the credibility of a witness.
[/quote]

if something depends on how much you subjectively trust someone, it's nonsense to call it a "fact".

[LittleRena]

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1299251651' post='2652469']
if something depends on how much you subjectively trust someone, it's nonsense to call it a "fact".
[/quote]

I'm sure if you ask nicly, they could provide screenshots.

But then you'd probably say "faked", that's the cool thing to do right?

[lamuella]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1299251760' post='2652470']
I'm sure if you ask nicly, they could provide screenshots.

But then you'd probably say "faked", that's the cool thing to do right?
[/quote]

nice assumption. Based on absolutely nothing, of course, but then all your assumptions are.

The fact remains that generalizing "I fought some people in FAN with bad warchests" to "FAN have bad warchests" isn't any more solid than generalizing "some people fought people in NPO with bad warchests" to "NPO have bad warchests", so silentkiller bragging about his stance being based on "facts" wasn't overly impressive.

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1299247276' post='2652422']
I do not recognize secret treaties, as there is no reason too.[/quote]

Under most circumstances, I'd probably agree with you.

However, over the last couple of weeks I have made it abundantly clear that an agreement between FAN and NoR existed. Between my own blog posts, comments in others' blogs and comments here, I'm going to guess that I've mentioned it half a dozen times, if not more.

Furthermore, some will recall that our Declaration of War during Bi-Polar specifically referenced our agreement with FAN.

As secrets go, this has to be one of the most poorly kept.

[quote name='Epiphanus' timestamp='1299247525' post='2652427']As an aside. NoR and FAN fighting together [i]against[/i] NPO is pretty comical given their histories. [/quote]

It really isn't, and I'll tell you why.

The 'history' you refer to is nearly four years old. An awful lot has happened between then and now.

Back during the Vox Populi movement, the 'Red Senate thing' and so on, I had the pleasure of introducing Vox and FAN to each other. Here were two groups with identical interests (in most areas) who seemed to be 'made for each other' in light of the circumstances that prevailed during and after Bi-Polar.

A number of Nordlanders took part in Vox in one way or another, including myself. From our interactions with FAN, we learned that we had much more in common than we had realized. [OOC] A membership that is generally older, a large number of people who are serving/have served in their nations' military or law enforcement, Libertarians or folks who just don't like government all over the damn place and so on. [/OOC]

Our preconceptions regarding each other melted away over time, and a genuine sense of friendship developed between FAN, an alliance seemingly in a permanent state of war, and Nordreich, an alliance that at the time existed only in the hearts and minds of its re-founders.

I have stated it many times before, but perhaps it bears repeating once again: the night of Nordreich's Reformation, the first alliance to visit us on IRC and wish us well was the Federation of Armed Nations. This was no accident.

Many alliances with 'awkward pasts' have later come together as a result of some external force compelling them to actually get to know one another. Sometimes it happens during a war against each other. Sometimes it happens from being compelled to fight on the same side as someone you're not particularly fond of. And sometimes it happens as a result of a shared desire to simply survive and thrive.

Familiarity may be said to breed contempt, but sometimes it just breeds more familiarity.

EDIT:

[quote name='Hydro' timestamp='1299251138' post='2652458']
Boy, I remember the days when the only thing keeping the scumbags in NoR from being rolled was the fact that they had some lines connecting them to NPO. Can't say I'm surprised by this announcement, but how times have changed...
[/quote]

That's never going to heal if you keep picking at it.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Ashoka the Great

[SpiderJerusalem]

[quote name='mikk206' timestamp='1299242333' post='2652374']
Good god, fighting sparta. I'd die laughing.
[/quote]

I thought this was what you hoped for the other way around when you called upon Legion to fight us?

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='GearHead' timestamp='1299237944' post='2652352']
I'm pretty sure it is publicly known that NoR's entry was delayed by DT's peace (or lack of it), and that NV's continued involvement with wF (military or not) is simply due to VE not wanting to let wF peace out. iirc, a gentleman's agreement between NV and wF occurred at the same time which involved deceasing military combat, which is why you get confused when you look at the war screen. The gentleman's agreement was only made because VE wouldn't allow wF to make a written one.
[/quote]

Now how does that make any sense? VE is a treaty partner of both NV and WF, why on earth would they be preventing the two from signing a formal peace agreement, especially given that in every practical sense they are already at peace?

That is also a violation of WF's peace terms with NoR if it is true, they are certainly not "acting in good faith to bring their war with Nueva Vida to a close" if they are obeying someone who has told them not to peace.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Lord Brendan

[Branimir]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1299252808' post='2652475']
Under most circumstances, I'd probably agree with you.

However, over the last couple of weeks I have made it abundantly clear that an agreement between FAN and NoR existed. Between my own blog posts, comments in others' blogs and comments here, I'm going to guess that I've mentioned it half a dozen times, if not more.

Furthermore, some will recall that our Declaration of War during Bi-Polar specifically referenced our agreement with FAN.

As secrets go, this has to be one of the most poorly kept.[/quote]

We did not see the terms of this agreement and its conditions, meaning we do not then know what it exactly means so ultimately its whatever you say it is at the moment you refer to it. As such its secret and non tangible to us. Then ultimately in my understanding it is non material and something that I do not recognize or can.

So henceforth then it is my personal view that this is a yet another war of aggression on my alliance without tangible reason, or without CB as understood in CN politics. As such it is a grievous act that has far reaching consequences, a random act of aggression which can only breed utmost hostility. And so it will.

[Chiftelos]

Here's to the top nations, may they come out of peace mode quick, so I can nuke some. This one's for TvM.

Rest in peace, Dave! You will be missed..

[mhawk]

Understandable, but unfortunate move NoR. Not a fan of what else was brought into this dow though.

[Jocko Homo]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1299254185' post='2652490']
We did not see the terms of this agreement and its conditions, meaning we do not then know what it exactly means so ultimately its whatever you say it is at the moment you refer to it. As such its secret and non tangible to us. [i][b]Then ultimately in my understanding it is non material and something that I do not recognize or can.[/b][/i]

So henceforth then it is my personal view that this is a yet another war of aggression on my alliance without tangible reason, or without CB as understood in CN politics. As such it is a grievous act that has far reaching consequences, a random act of aggression which can only breed utmost hostility. And so it will.
[/quote]

I remember another guy who refused to recognize the obvious... It didn't work out well for him either.

[img]http://www.thedailyrash.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/bagdad_bob_large.gif[/img]

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1299252808' post='2652475']
It really isn't, and I'll tell you why.

The 'history' you refer to is nearly four years old. An awful lot has happened between then and now.

Back during the Vox Populi movement, the 'Red Senate thing' and so on, I had the pleasure of introducing Vox and FAN to each other. Here were two groups with identical interests (in most areas) who seemed to be 'made for each other' in light of the circumstances that prevailed during and after Bi-Polar.

A number of Nordlanders took part in Vox in one way or another, including myself. From our interactions with FAN, we learned that we had much more in common than we had realized. [OOC] A membership that is generally older, a large number of people who are serving/have served in their nations' military or law enforcement, Libertarians or folks who just don't like government all over the damn place and so on. [/OOC]

Our preconceptions regarding each other melted away over time, and a genuine sense of friendship developed between FAN, an alliance seemingly in a permanent state of war, and Nordreich, an alliance that at the time existed only in the hearts and minds of its re-founders.

I have stated it many times before, but perhaps it bears repeating once again: the night of Nordreich's Reformation, the first alliance to visit us on IRC and wish us well was the Federation of Armed Nations. This was no accident.

Many alliances with 'awkward pasts' have later come together as a result of some external force compelling them to actually get to know one another. Sometimes it happens during a war against each other. Sometimes it happens from being compelled to fight on the same side as someone you're not particularly fond of. And sometimes it happens as a result of a shared desire to simply survive and thrive.

Familiarity may be said to breed contempt, but sometimes it just breeds more familiarity.
[/quote]

A very good explanation of how FAN and NoR came to be allies. Thanks for this bit of background.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1299215053' post='2651972']
Well thats about as cowardly as you can get
[/quote]
Not really wicked. Hit me up we can chat about it


[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1299215516' post='2651995']
Flipping sides midwar! Polar must be so proud, they've started a trend!
[/quote]
Not trying to speak for NoR here but they were relatively content to sit the Polar war out but people had to be stupid about things. They were never in this war for Polar they went in for NV so their view on this has never changed. They have not flipped sides as they were never really on a side to begin with other than HELPING take some heat of off NV.

[quote name='Emperor Mudd' timestamp='1299215570' post='2651997']
This is for Thor von Mayhem.

We'll fight for you, brother.

Victory or Valhalla!
[/quote]
Ill say Victory please Valhalla has already been blessed with one of the reich recently.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1299217416' post='2652086']
Help FAN in a offensive war against NPO over past grudges without any treaty to back it up when one of the main reasons for FAN being rolled by NPO was their attack against the 1st NoR is really ironic and sad.

I never thought that you guys were bandwagoners, I'm disappointed with such behavior coming from an alliance that I respected.
[/quote]
Interesting consider this. FAN needed a bit of help with Valhalla in order to prosecute their war with IRON to its fullest. The first AA to ride in was NOR. Why on earth cant you see the writing on the wall. A good friend put it too me this way. ONE good friend is worth a thousand words on paper. Mess with FAN and im pretty sure youll see a diverse group of people comming to collect. Now in this case FAN needed help with lower NS and being the type of ally that they are they agreed. While I dont think anyone here can truly blame them for wanting a piece of NPO they have clearly stated this is in support of FAN not for anything else. IF NoR says it, generally you can take it too the bank.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1299218229' post='2652119']
Yeah FAN really moved from the past, may be that's why you are attacking NPO for something they did a 3 years ago.
[/quote]
Viet FAN ended what 2 years ago after 2years of being held down by many different AAs including my own. Id say in the grudge game they have the most valid one out there. In all honesty after the purge of NoV by Q and OV I think NoR has a pretty good reason to be hear anyway.

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1299219519' post='2652155']
If I were your allies on the other side, I would be pretty upset by this. You essentially gave their obligations lip service so you could jump in here.
[/quote]
where did they give lip service at. They remained poised to assist DT should that be required and escalate they helped NV per NVs request. I find that to be very much more than simple lip service.

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1299222784' post='2652222']
Honestly I agree with everything about this post except the conclusion. As a member of the grudge-holding-ist alliance on the face of Planet Bob I can really get behind their reasoning here. We should talk things out, NoR, I really think we have a lot in common. I mean, we're both real politicking revenge-based warmongering my idols. Just be honest with yourselves about who you are and we should get along like best friends.
[/quote]

LOL id pay to be a fly on the wall the night you ever get NoR and GOD in to a private room. Whos going to gag xiphosis. You know this as well as anyone NoFish.

[quote name='O-Dog' timestamp='1299237941' post='2652351']
Perhaps DH overestimated itself and now need to call for help. Perhaps NoR were just too chicken to go in at the beginning. Perhaps NoR are just getting a cheap hit in.

Either way, there's no glory or honour to be had here.
[/quote]
wow you sir are way off. NoR may be many things but chicken is not one of them. They fullfilled their obligations and now continue to do so. Just because e-lawyers dont have something in print to try and pick apart the agreement is a living thing. It has been proven on more than one occasion.

NoR may your ride in to this be swift and your victory be great.

o/ NoR
o/ TVM you will be missed brother.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Buds The Man

[Branimir]

[quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1299257035' post='2652521']
I remember another guy who refused to recognize the obvious... It didn't work out well for him either.

pic
[/quote]
OOC- If you are unable to make an IC post in an IC forum only as a response to my post then you should not bother.

IC: Your under the table agreement is not formal political tool and as such does not bear the same implications.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1299260083' post='2652546']
OOC- If you are unable to make an IC post in an IC forum only as a response to my post then you should not bother.

IC: Your under the table agreement is not formal political tool and as such does not bear the same implications.
[/quote]
It is what they want it to be and as their is no rulling political body on Bob who are you to say any different. If FAN and NoR choose to agree to something who are you or for that matter who am I to dispute its validity.

[Branimir]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1299260325' post='2652548']
It is what they want it to be and as their is no rulling political body on Bob who are you to say any different. If FAN and NoR choose to agree to something who are you or for that matter who am I to dispute its validity.
[/quote]
I am a member of the targeted alliance, hence directly concerned.

I said in my first post that my stance concerning their "gentleman agreement" is mine. Obviously I can have it and express it, and obviously other people can form other positions.

[Lusitan]

NoR you can't be this dumb, it's just not possible.

[Rebel Virginia]

[color="#0000FF"]I'm not happy to see this (what a shock), but as with FAN I cannot blame NoR for this. Nor can I criticize NoR for assisting an ally, treaty or not (especially not, which would be hypocritical for me to do anyway considering NSO's thoughts on that matter). Wish I could wish you luck, but I can't.[/color]

[Colonel Heinrich]

Nordreich and NPO, clash of the titans, good luck to both parties and Nordreich, try not to hurt NPO TOO much

[TrotskysRevenge]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1299237172' post='2652344']
You were butthurt about WoTC for 2 years, just sayin'. Difference is FAN didnt need to backstab there side to seek whatever they're looking for.
[/quote]



FAN aproprit to hit us; DH not so much, not so much at al.

[Monster]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' timestamp='1299253775' post='2652487']
Now how does that make any sense? VE is a treaty partner of both NV and WF, why on earth would they be preventing the two from signing a formal peace agreement, especially given that in every practical sense they are already at peace?

That is also a violation of WF's peace terms with NoR if it is true, they are certainly not "acting in good faith to bring their war with Nueva Vida to a close" if they are obeying someone who has told them not to peace.
[/quote]

Honestly, VE didn't tell anyone not to peace and if we were in a scenario where they did, it wouldn't matter since they were involved in making those terms. There's not going to be any "world federation declares war" resulting from something they don't perceive to be a violation.

[Steve Buscemi]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1299254185' post='2652490']
We did not see the terms of this agreement and its conditions, meaning we do not then know what it exactly means so ultimately its whatever you say it is at the moment you refer to it. As such its secret and non tangible to us. Then ultimately in my understanding it is non material and something that I do not recognize or can.

So henceforth then it is my personal view that this is a yet another war of aggression on my alliance without tangible reason, or without CB as understood in CN politics. As such it is a grievous act that has far reaching consequences, a random act of aggression which can only breed utmost hostility. And so it will.
[/quote]
But you are winning this war, right? Since you are so easily beating your enemies don't you want to take one more out? Hit two birds with one stone.

I know I know, when your coalition is already surrendering and others are joining the other side to beat you down it's hard to convince everyone that you're actually winning, but I won't let their facts deter me from what Pacifica has told me. Pacifica propaganda > facts. I just don't get why no one outside of the NPO is buying that.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1299264248' post='2652588']
Honestly, VE didn't tell anyone not to peace and if we were in a scenario where they did, it wouldn't matter since they were involved in making those terms. There's not going to be any "world federation declares war" resulting from something they don't perceive to be a violation.
[/quote]

More then that, its expressly not a violation.

Anyway, whether or not we had a hand in writing the term in question, strictly in an advisory capacity, has nothing to do with NV/WF peace. The two are separate and distinct issues, and it makes no sense for anyone to try and tie them together and say we told so and so not to do X (which, by the way, we didn't).

Edited March 4, 2011 by Il Impero Romano

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1299264686' post='2652594']
More then that, its expressly not a violation.

Anyway, whether or not we had a hand in writing the term in question, strictly in an advisory capacity, has nothing to do with NV/WF peace. The two are separate and distinct issues, and it makes no sense for anyone to try and tie them together and say we told so and so not to do X.
[/quote]

Why have Nueva Vida and World Federation not signed a formal peace agreement?

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' timestamp='1299265016' post='2652601']
Why have Nueva Vida and World Federation not signed a formal peace agreement?
[/quote]

Why are you so concerned over it?

[Steve Buscemi]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' timestamp='1299265016' post='2652601']
Why have Nueva Vida and World Federation not signed a formal peace agreement?
[/quote]
How about you just go ask them.