Lusitan Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 [quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1299324171' post='2653420'] Of course there is choice involved. There is choice involved in everything. But what kind of friends would we be if we automatically said no? Better yet, what kind of friends would we be if we automatically said yes? I know the whole treaty web can mess with a person's brain sometimes, but not all actions need to be written into official, automatic, and binding conditions. Of course we made the choice to enter the war alongside FAN. We're not passing the responsibility for our declaration onto FAN, we'll gladly take responsibility for our actions. But if you're looking for a [b]reason[/b] for us entering, FAN's request would be that reason. Hopefully that makes things a bit clearer. [/quote] I am sorry, it doesn't make sense, you're still dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwuss Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 [quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1299327017' post='2653431'] I am sorry, it doesn't make sense, you're still dumb. [/quote] NO U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaric Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 [quote name='Vinzent Zeppelin' timestamp='1299214822' post='2651960'] ...Over a month ago, the day before the Doomhouse-Federation of Armed Nations declaration of war on the New Pacific Order, a FAN representative informed us of their intentions and asked for our assistance pursuant to our gentlemen's agreement with that alliance, to which we agreed. Certain events, such as Nueva Vida's entry into the conflict surrounding the New Polar Order, and the obscene demands being made of our allies in the Dark Templar, delayed our fulfillment of this request... Tonight, in support of our allies, and to honour the memory of a fallen brother, we declare war on the New Pacific Order.[/quote] Ok, so FAN is your #1 'treaty'. Thanks for the update... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Levistus Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 [quote name='Alaric' timestamp='1299329307' post='2653448'] Ok, so FAN is your #1 'treaty'. Thanks for the update... [/quote] #3 by extension of the text you quoted. Not sure how you got a #1 from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 How come people are lining up to state how honorable NoR is when they obviously peaced out early in a fight they could have gotten there asses handed to them in. Then they turn around and jump on an alliance that's already overextended because of what exactly? An oA clause in a secret treaty? Now I'm not saying they haven't done honourable things in the past, but come on... This was a cowards move to get a few licks in on NPO when they couldn't fight back. Stop whining about all the past injustices, as had you not been cowardly boot lickers, you could have attacked NPO long ago without waiting for them to be at war for a month with some of the strongest AA's in the game. Nordreich: Peacing out of tough battles and dogpiling on bloodied alliances since 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 [quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1299324171' post='2653420'] Of course there is choice involved. There is choice involved in everything. But what kind of friends would we be if we automatically said no? Better yet, what kind of friends would we be if we automatically said yes? I know the whole treaty web can mess with a person's brain sometimes, but not all actions need to be written into official, automatic, and binding conditions. Of course we made the choice to enter the war alongside FAN. We're not passing the responsibility for our declaration onto FAN, we'll gladly take responsibility for our actions. But if you're looking for a [b]reason[/b] for us entering, FAN's request would be that reason. Hopefully that makes things a bit clearer. [/quote] Fair enough, but what I was getting at was that NoR is trying to say that they only joined this war because FAN asked, but as you say it was a choice. It seems odd to me that NoR would choose to honour the request to enter an offensive war where the original attackers say they are winning the war handily. It seems like there must have been other considerations, as if they are winning as they say, your entry against the central, already-outgunned defender has little effect on the outcome of the war. [quote name='Vinzent Zeppelin' timestamp='1299214822' post='2651960'] Tonight, in support of our allies, and [b]to honour the memory of a fallen brother[/b], we declare war on the New Pacific Order. [/quote] [OOC] Also, why are you bringing this into the DoW and trying to direct it at Pacifica? [/OOC] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einswald Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1299333697' post='2653474'] [OOC] Also, why are you bringing this into the DoW and trying to direct it at Pacifica? [/OOC] [/quote] Just about had enough of this, we are an alliance of warriors and dedicating a war to our fallen friend is how we choose to honor him, really has nothing to do with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniard United Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Disgusting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 [quote name='Einswald' timestamp='1299335020' post='2653482'] Just about had enough of this, we are an alliance of warriors and dedicating a war to our fallen friend is how we choose to honor him, really has nothing to do with you. [/quote] And NPO has nothing to do with him. Why tack him on as part of the reason for the DoW? I'm sorry for your loss but bringing him into this doesn't sit well with me. Reminds me of a famous incident with the Legion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka the Great Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1299323653' post='2653416'] Does FAN asking get them an automatic yes? Otherwise, there is a large element of choice involved in your actions, which makes your attempts to paint this as though you are obligated to help them in an offensive war appear pretty weak. [/quote] I see variations of this being repeated again and again and again, as if it represents some kind of overpowering argument against which there is no possible reply. So here we go. This is a 'one off' statement, after which I'm departing from this particular cesspool. Anyone wishing for clarification is invited to look me up via PM or on IRC. I am done responding to the braying [m]asses who insist on fighting a battle of the wits while completely disarmed. [list=1] [*]At roughly the same time, FAN and NV requested NoR's assistance. FAN was informed that we felt obliged to honor the request of a long-time friend. They understood and said, "No problemo. We hope to see you soon." [*]Nordreich declared war on World Federation. [*]Approximately one week later, a ceasefire was put in place while peace negotiations were underway. [*]One or two days later there occurred a [i]de facto[/i] closing off of the NoR/NV-wF front, with NoR/wF agreeing to peace and NV/wF agreeing to honor the ceasefire as far as possible while working toward conclusion of a formal peace agreement. [*]FAN reminded us of their request. We said, "Give us 5-7 days to clean ourselves up a bit." FAN understood and said, "No problemo. Hope to see you soon." [*]CSN made ridiculous demands of DT. [*]Nordreich informed FAN of CSN's despicable maneuver. Since this had the possibility to bring more alliances in against DT, FAN were informed that NoR, contary to its agreement with wF, might find itself in the regrettable position of having to re-enter the war. [*]Nordreich offered to help DT. DT declined the offer. [*]Nordreich informed FAN that as long as DT were facing extortion, we needed to keep ourselves focused on their dilemma, regardless of whether DT requested our assistance or not. FAN said, "No problemo. Hope to see you soon." [*]DT reached an agreement with the parasites of CSN. [*]FAN asked, "So....we're good, right? Nordreich nodded. [*]Four days later, Nordreich activated our longstanding agreement with FAN. [/list] And there you have it, more or less. No doubt I've put something in the wrong order, or over-simplified a point. Those who are looking to argue over anything will point out these trifles and obsess about them. Before Nordreich's Declaration of War, I discussed this entire situation in a very open and public way. During said discussions I, and by implication Nordreich, were called cowards, liars and backstabbers. I presented as much information as I possibly could -- again, all of it in a very public way -- but those who insisted on either playing stupid or saw this as another opportunity to slander Nordreich chose to ignore it. I don't expect any of these people to apologize to me, or even recognize the fact that they were spouting nonsense from the get-go. (Let's ignore the fact that many people here have commented that this came as no surprise to them.) That how things work around here. When proven wrong, Nordreich's detractors scour every statement even more intently, looking for a misplaced comma that might implicate us as the monsters some wish us to be. Nordreich stands by its allies. All of them. In the event this should ever change, I will be the first to call them out on it. Is that clear enough? Or will I have to be subjected to more idiotic catcalls by people who will be proven wrong, say nothing about it, and then return in a week or so to spout the same nonsense? People may say that Nordreich 'surrendered' to wF. That's fine, but bear in mind that wF's leadership has publicly stated that this conclusion is wrong. People may say we have abandoned our allies in Nueva Vida and The Dark Templar. If you can point to an example of either NV or DT saying this, I will be very much surprised. People may choose not to accept that an agreement existed between Nordreich and FAN. That's fine, too, but there's rather a lot of evidence that says otherwise, including numerous public statements by myself over the last several months. My God but this gets tiresome.... Get some new material, people. This schtick is just making you look ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialCubanacan Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 The loss of our member is not the reason for the declaration of war against the New Pacific Order. It is merely a footnote in the OP if you did not notice. However, as he died around 24 hours before our declaration, many members have felt the desire to commemorate their wars in his name. As a tribute. He was a faithful long-standing member since 2006, like the old members such as I. And in that spirit... he is being given tribute by our people. It is not the [i]reason[/i] for the war. Now, people... please get back to the issue at hand. How long until New Pacific Order falls below Nordreich's ANS? (I keed) Kindest Regards, Cuba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleRena Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 [quote name='berbers' timestamp='1299332771' post='2653467'] Nordreich: Peacing out of tough battles and dogpiling on bloodied alliances since 2011. [/quote] Well, atleast they fought in a tough battle before joining a bandwagon, unlike that other German alliance, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) [quote name='lakerzz8' timestamp='1299268424' post='2652640'] 50/213 = about 23%. A 4th of our possible slots are used on one of our 6 opponents (I think we're at war with 6). Seems like we're heavily engaged. [/quote] STA definitely knows how to party. [quote name='Letum' timestamp='1299278713' post='2652777'] Look, I don't mind fighting you, but do you really have to use "we're just following an agreement" as a cop out? You're not really any less responsible for your actions because your friend who charged in first asked you to. [/quote] While I agree with the general principle, I believe you misapply it here. They are not trying to avoid responsibility for their actions. They are simply following the customary ritual formula. [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1299286801' post='2652904'] Finally, somebody on the other side who gets it. [/quote] Second time today I have nodded in agreement with a goon. Lammy got me first. WTF? Signs of the Apocalypse. Edited March 5, 2011 by Sigrun Vapneir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnCapistan Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Get out you band waggoning pond scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believland Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) [quote name='berbers' timestamp='1299332771' post='2653467'] Nordreich: Peacing out of tough battles and dogpiling on bloodied alliances since 2011. [/quote] NoR's battle with WF was anything but tough. Edited March 5, 2011 by Believland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 [quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1299338087' post='2653501'] Zog's WoT [/quote] Bloody hell, strawman much? My post you quoted was directed at you guys cringing and wringing your hands and saying 'aww, we had to hit NPO, FAN asked us!'. I don't care about your timeline or the one hundred and one other things you brought up there. What I was saying was own your actions, don't palm it off to FAN. NoR chose to support the cause of this war when you committed your nations to winning it. [quote name='ImperialCubanacan' timestamp='1299338161' post='2653502'] The loss of our member is not the reason for the declaration of war against the New Pacific Order. It is merely a footnote in the OP if you did not notice. However, as he died around 24 hours before our declaration, many members have felt the desire to commemorate their wars in his name. As a tribute. He was a faithful long-standing member since 2006, like the old members such as I. And in that spirit... he is being given tribute by our people. It is not the [i]reason[/i] for the war. Now, people... please get back to the issue at hand. How long until New Pacific Order falls below Nordreich's ANS? (I keed) Kindest Regards, Cuba [/quote] If it was a footnote I wouldn't have said anything. It was its placement here that caught my attention: Tonight, in support of our allies, and to honour the memory of a fallen brother, we declare war on the New Pacific Order. I guess I'm just reading it differently than it was intended, and I'll drop it now, it just seemed to be suggesting that the DoW was in some way avenging him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazymatty Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1299341665' post='2653526'] If it was a footnote I wouldn't have said anything. It was its placement here that caught my attention: Tonight, in support of our allies, and to honour the memory of a fallen brother, we declare war on the New Pacific Order. I guess I'm just reading it differently than it was intended, and I'll drop it now, it just seemed to be suggesting that the DoW was in some way avenging him. [/quote] It's official...people will nitpick ANYTHING. WC..you look like a class A !@#$% right now. I think you are the only single person that read it like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabcat Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 I read it like that as well but I didn't think someone was actually dead, I thought it was some nation related thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka the Great Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1299341665' post='2653526'] Bloody hell, strawman much?[/quote] A 'strawman' argument would require me to invent some kind of ridiculous charge that hasn't been made and then respond solely to that. Look back over the comments made, and you will see that with that 'Wall of Text' I have endeavored to answer all nit-picking criticisms, including your own. Please point me to any place in this thread where a person of authority within Nordreich has said that we had no choice in the matter. What you will find is many people in and outside Nordreich saying that we honored an agreement. That's all. Now, perhaps in the eyes of Pacifica (or possibly just you and a few others) the decision to honor an agreement represents some kind of agonizing dilemma. The 'hand-wringing' you referred to and all that. I responded to your statements with a recitation of facts. I alluded to the fact that it seems that many are using the tiniest bits of information in order to get in one more verbal kick at us. So here I go again.... [b]This may seem shocking to you and others, but honoring an agreement is in fact a free choice; one that Nordreich has made many times in the past and will continue to make in the future. That we have consistently abided by our agreements is far from dishonorable. [/b] Is it clear now? I hope so, because I don't know that I can state it any more authoritatively. [quote name='Sabcat' timestamp='1299342809' post='2653535'] I read it like that as well but I didn't think someone was actually dead, I thought it was some nation related thing. [/quote] Believe me, all of us wish it [u]was[/u] some kind of 'nation-related thing' or some kind of cruel hoax along the lines of what others have perpetrated in the past. Edited March 5, 2011 by Ashoka the Great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 [quote name='crazymatty' timestamp='1299342404' post='2653532'] It's official...people will nitpick ANYTHING. WC..you look like a class A !@#$% right now. I think you are the only single person that read it like that. [/quote] Cheers bro. But yeah, totally, I brought it up just to nitpick. Or maybe because I think bringing anything OOC, but especially something of that magnitude, into a declaration of war is silly. Even more so when it is mentioned in the sentence which says who they are declaring on and why. I said I was sorry for their loss, that I'd obviously read it differently than intended, and explained why. So get off your high horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1299333697' post='2653474'] Fair enough, but what I was getting at was that NoR is trying to say that they only joined this war because FAN asked, but as you say it was a choice.[/quote] Please don't say fair enough and then re-ask the same question I just answered and you said fair enough to. You make my brain hurt! I do hope that was just an accident. [quote]It seems odd to me that NoR would choose to honour the request to enter an offensive war where the original attackers say they are winning the war handily. It seems like there must have been other considerations, as if they are winning as they say, your entry against the central, already-outgunned defender has little effect on the outcome of the war. [/quote] The strategical reasoning for NoR entering the conflict has been explained in this thread already as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pd73bassman Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) Well this has gotten a little stupid now. Of course we had the choice on whether we wanted to go in and assist our friends Fan and we chose to do so because we had already told them from the beginning we would help them so why would we change our minds now? surely the people who know us best realize when we say we are going to do something we do it. Now I will go back into hiding and await the lawsuit for my copyright infringement on Doomhouse's slogan Edited March 5, 2011 by pd73bassman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens of the desert Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 [quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1299215588' post='2651999'] Your atempt at paybak is cowardly and disingenus; you wait until we have ben unethikly ataked and engaged for weks. Just anothr bandwagonr; nothing to se her, nothing to be proud of. [/quote] Wow...a great reply indeed to these dastardly actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Ozujsko Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) People are surprised by this? I thought this was pretty well known. NoR - Thank you for standing by our side, especially over the last few weeks. Our friendship cannot be broken. Good luck. DT+NoR 4/9/11 Also, Friends over Coalition Warfare...lol. EDIT: Fixed double-negative. Edited March 5, 2011 by General Ozujsko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 You fail all that the Reich represents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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