A Recognition of Hostility

[Mark Ashton]

As much as I [i]hate[/i] to say it: Viridias DoW was [i]way[/i] more convincing.

Good luck Polaris, let's hope you learn some checks and balances.

[shahenshah]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1295359180' post='2581232']
That being said...., VE your CB sucks and was a total trap set up by you and lennox. Your so full of it your eyes are browner then GATO's sphere.....still GL melting the polar ice cap!
[/quote]
Why would Lennox do such a thing?

Edited January 18, 2011 by shahenshah

[Jon the Warlord]

If those are the true logs, which I believe they are, then VE is kind of right in this one.

Even if you thought they were garbage, you should have gone to VE gov to tell them.

Really, there isn't much of an alternate option.

You yourself said that you'd go to the other alliance's gov right away to help them.

Not sit there and think it's a joke.

Doesn't matter how ridiculous it seems that he got the info(and yes, it is ridiculous), but you still should have gone to them.

[gantanX]

for an alliance who has 4k++ nukes it is quite disappointing that almost 100% of Polaris war is defensive, i mean come on you have 12M NS against 19M, that's a fair fight tbqh..

Have fun in the war guys

Edited January 18, 2011 by gantanX

[Cobalt]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1295363085' post='2581341']
The answer to this question is obvious: his actions gave the VE the CB on the Polars they were looking for. Either they knew about it beforehand and he was on assignment or they didn't and they're just happy he told them what he'd been up to.
[/quote]

By the cigar of Red Auerbach, I agree with Haflinger.

This whole situation comes down to the individual and whether they believe the simple solution (NpO .gov was involved in spying on VE), or the paranoid/conspiracy theory solution (NpO .gov was involved in spying on VE, but the entire thing was orchestrated by VE in order to get the valid CB ).

Beyond that its a known fact that the Entente likes going to war and that we've butted heads with NpO for years. Given a valid reason, you can probably expect the Entente to take that chance. It doesn't stem from any sort of hate, malice, or ill will towards the Polar Order, but because they have the same history of tensions with us as we have with them and a good slugfest with Polaris always produces the kind of drama and fanfare that fuels the community. In short, its fun.


So, hail NpO - Thanks for the CB and I'll see you on the battlefield, I know it will be a good fight. If I had my way I'd have an offer of white peace waiting in the wings for everyone after we're all nice and bloodied up.

[RandomInterrupt]

[quote name='Jon the Warlord' timestamp='1295367886' post='2581470']
If those are the true logs, which I believe they are, then VE is kind of right in this one.

Even if you thought they were garbage, you should have gone to VE gov to tell them.

Really, there isn't much of an alternate option.

You yourself said that you'd go to the other alliance's gov right away to help them.

Not sit there and think it's a joke.

Doesn't matter how ridiculous it seems that he got the info(and yes, it is ridiculous), but you still should have gone to them.
[/quote]
We did go right to the VE. Logs of that conversation are in the OP. They were uninterested in hearing anything as they had a war to plan.

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Tungsten' timestamp='1295368305' post='2581478']
So, hail NpO - Thanks for the CB and I'll see you on the battlefield, I know it will be a good fight. If I had my way I'd have an offer of white peace waiting in the wings for everyone after we're all nice and bloodied up.
[/quote]
You. You are what's wrong with this world.

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='Tungsten' timestamp='1295368305' post='2581478']
but because they have the same history of tensions with us as we have with them and a good slugfest with Polaris always produces the kind of drama and fanfare that fuels the community. In short, its fun. [/quote]

Best thing said by a VE'er, ever.
[quote name='Tungsten' timestamp='1295368305' post='2581478']
So, hail NpO - Thanks for the CB and I'll see you on the battlefield, I know it will be a good fight. If I had my way I'd have an offer of white peace waiting in the wings for everyone after we're all nice and bloodied up.
[/quote]

Quickly followed by the worst.

[Matthew Conrad]

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1295335360' post='2580700']
Are you saying VE engineered this situation to rehash the UJW and beat Polar once and for all?
[/quote]

Oh seriously, I know you're angry but please stop being intentionally dense. I was referring to Random's well known and seemingly only FA strategy of treatying or having his allies treaty anything that moves that isn't already with a group. Actually, no let's go with your conspiracy theory; that was definitely what I meant.

[RandomInterrupt]

[quote name='Matthew Conrad' timestamp='1295368788' post='2581487']
Oh seriously, I know you're angry but please stop being intentionally dense. I was referring to Random's well known and seemingly only FA strategy of treatying or having his allies treaty anything that moves that isn't already with a group. Actually, no let's go with your conspiracy theory; that was definitely what I meant.
[/quote]
I have signed two defensive treaties as Emperor. Both upgrades to existing lower level treaties. So yeah that is basically the same thing as treatying everything that moves that isn't in a group. Almost exactly the same.

[Matthew Conrad]

[quote name='RandomInterrupt' timestamp='1295369214' post='2581502']
I have signed two defensive treaties as Emperor. Both upgrades to existing lower level treaties. So yeah that is basically the same thing as treatying everything that moves that isn't in a group. Almost exactly the same.
[/quote]

First off, the Legion treaty was what? A PIAT? Let's not play coy here. Second off, you will notice I added in something to the effect of "or...". Go ahead and take a look.

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='Matthew Conrad' timestamp='1295368788' post='2581487']
or having his allies treaty anything that moves that isn't already with a group.
[/quote]

Holy crap, NpO decides who their allies treaty with! Bad NpO, bad!

[Draztikus]

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1295369552' post='2581508']
Holy crap, NpO decides who their allies treaty with! Bad NpO, bad!
[/quote]
Yep, that's why we ordered RoK to end their treaty with VE... oh wait

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='Draztikus' timestamp='1295369775' post='2581512']
Yep, that's why we ordered RoK to end their treaty with VE... oh wait
[/quote]

You guys are as bad as Heg!

[Letum]

[quote name='Tungsten' timestamp='1295368305' post='2581478']
This whole situation comes down to the individual and whether they believe the simple solution (NpO .gov was involved in spying on VE), or the paranoid/conspiracy theory solution (NpO .gov was involved in spying on VE, but the entire thing was orchestrated by VE in order to get the valid CB ).
[/quote]

That's some great framing there. Amateurs of propaganda should pay more attention to this guy and try to denigrate the opposition rather than nitpick through a situation for tiny details to magnify in their favour.

[bob the slayer]

all i can say is have fun, beat each other down and get some enjoyment. DOWN WITH PIXELS

[Branimir]

Good luck, NpO

[Jake Liebenow]

[quote name='Tungsten' timestamp='1295368305' post='2581478']
By the cigar of Red Auerbach, I agree with Haflinger.

This whole situation comes down to the individual and whether they believe the simple solution (NpO .gov was involved in spying on VE), or the paranoid/conspiracy theory solution (NpO .gov was involved in spying on VE, but the entire thing was orchestrated by VE in order to get the valid CB ).

Beyond that its a known fact that the Entente likes going to war and that we've butted heads with NpO for years. Given a valid reason, you can probably expect the Entente to take that chance. It doesn't stem from any sort of hate, malice, or ill will towards the Polar Order, but because they have the same history of tensions with us as we have with them and a good slugfest with Polaris always produces the kind of drama and fanfare that fuels the community. In short, its fun.


So, hail NpO - Thanks for the CB and I'll see you on the battlefield, I know it will be a good fight. If I had my way I'd have an offer of white peace waiting in the wings for everyone after we're all nice and bloodied up.
[/quote]

So, looks like the "conspiracy nuts" were right

Good luck, Polar!

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Matthew Conrad' timestamp='1295368788' post='2581487']
Oh seriously, I know you're angry but please stop being intentionally dense. I was referring to [b]Random's[/b] well known and seemingly only [b]FA strategy of[/b] treatying or [b]having his allies treaty[/b] anything that moves that isn't already with a group. Actually, no let's go with your conspiracy theory; that was definitely what I meant.
[/quote]
Uh, no offense, but Polar doesn't decide who their allies treaty. I'm quite certain there are some allies of their allies who they don't like all that much.

[i]Quite[/i] certain.

[Krunk the Great]

There was no need for this, we all know you are at war. Why should you post a thread stating "Hey we're at war and we disagree with the CB"? Doesn't every defensive side disagree with the CB?

Obvious stating the obvious is obvious.

[PotFace]

I remember a time when the bigger alliances would pick on the smaller ones. Seems like these days, it's the other way around. Now, if the smaller alliances seem to have a problem with hegemony, and I'm talking about some old-school hegemony too, then it seems to me like the most illogical thing you could do is to recreate it by bringing the larger alliances closer together by attacking them with weak CBs and lack of attempt for diplomatic resolve, time and time again.

Eventually, this practice is going to come to a screeching halt. It's just a matter of how patient those who are on the receiving end decide to be.

[Omniscient1]

They were looking for a CB forever guys. When they finally got something that looked half way intelligent they used it. I believe at this point most of Polar's allies knew they were being hunted and so everyone who has kept a Polar MDoAP has been ready for this moment. While I think a lot of us actually do have "a way out" having kept our treaties with our other friends most of us don't plan to take it.


[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1295371940' post='2581569']
Uh, no offense, but Polar doesn't decide who their allies treaty. I'm quite certain there are some allies of their allies who they don't like all that much.

[i]Quite[/i] certain.
[/quote]

Yea I don't believe Polar and Athens have a great relationship either.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Omniscient1

[Penkala]

[quote name='RandomInterrupt' timestamp='1295368500' post='2581480']
We did go right to the VE. Logs of that conversation are in the OP. They were uninterested in hearing anything as they had a war to plan.
[/quote]

This doesn't mitigate your decision to recommend spying on VE or accept and read the screenshots that resulted from your suggestion. None of that should have happened in the first place.

[Cairna]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1295373658' post='2581603']
This doesn't mitigate your decision to recommend spying on VE or accept and read the screenshots that resulted from your suggestion. None of that should have happened in the first place.
[/quote]
Do you even know what mitigate means, Penkala?

[Mustakrakish II]

Most BS defense ever. Even if you got fake screens, if want to avoid a !@#$ storm your first step should have been to inform VE and your govt. And warchests not being able to be accessed by newer members? What? you crazy. Nation check ins most often take place in a finance or a general member public hall so that everyone can check in, except in instances of training programs where or partial membership is involved.

It will be sad if Polaris brings in allies. Even in those logs you still appear guilty, especially when combined with VE logs.