lamuella Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295349360' post='2581093'] Suggesting that an alliance is worth spying on is different from telling someone to spy on them. Close perhaps, but still two different acts. [/quote] oh come on, we're getting into "It depends on what your definition of 'is' is" territory here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295349555' post='2581096'] All I see is Lennox stating his intention to spy, not to spy on the behalf of a particular party. [/quote] He is talking to the second in command of an alliance. Interpreting that as a interest to spy for someone else is way beyond reading it in good faith. It's plain ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrnea Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1295349791' post='2581099']He is talking to the second in command of an alliance. Interpreting that as a interest to spy for someone else is way beyond reading it in good faith. It's plain ignorance.[/quote] I was under the impression that the two were talking as friends, not as representatives of their respective alliances. Under this context, I find it quite irrelevant what positions each of the two people in the conversation hold. For the record, I interpreted the log like this: [b]Lennox:[/b] "Hey I'm going to spy on someone for the hell of it, maybe MHA?" [b]Dajobo:[/b] Nah man, they're boring, pick someone else. [b]Lennox:[/b] Okay, got any ideas on who'd be interesting to spy on then? [b]Dajobo:[/b] Perhaps MK or VE? They seem to be the movers and shakers these days. Nowhere in that does Dajobo say "I want you to spy on MK or VE and report what you find back to me". Perhaps MHA should roll Polar for implying that they are not interesting enough to be worth spying on? Edited January 18, 2011 by Arrnea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 The CB might be legit; a year ago I would have cared. Not any more. Have fun with whatever it is you people are doing over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295349930' post='2581101'] I was under the impression that the two were talking as friends, not as representatives of their respective alliances. Under this context, I find it quite irrelevant what positions each of the two people in the conversation hold. For the record, I interpreted the log like this: [b]Lennox:[/b] "Hey I'm going to spy on someone for the hell of it, maybe MHA?" [b]Dajobo:[/b] Nah man, they're boring, pick someone else. [b]Lennox:[/b] Okay, got any ideas on who'd be interesting to spy on then? [b]Dajobo:[/b] Perhaps MK or VE? They seem to be the movers and shakers these days. Nowhere in that does Dajobo say "I want you to spy on MK or VE and report what you find back to me". Perhaps MHA should roll Polar for implying that they are not interesting enough to be worth spying on? [/quote] That would be a far fetched but still plausible theory if Dajabo hadn't asked lennox to reupload the screens he couldn't see when they were delivered showing clearly that he has a interest in them or are we going with the "he wanted to see the warchest screens as a friend" line here? Because I might have to get drunk to get to that level of "good faith". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrnea Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1295350269' post='2581106'] That would be a far fetched but still plausible theory if Dajabo hadn't asked lennox to reupload the screens he couldn't see when they were delivered showing clearly that he has a interest in them or are we going with the "he wanted to see the warchest screens as a friend" line here? Because I might have to get drunk to get to that level of "good faith". [/quote] From what I understand of [b]that[/b] log, Lennox sent Dajobo a PM containing several image links. These did not work, therefore when Dajobo requested that they be reuploaded, he did not know what they contained. Once he had found what was inside them, he set about talking to VE... only Impero wasn't having it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295350423' post='2581107'] From what I understand of [b]that[/b] log, Lennox sent Dajobo a PM containing several image links. These did not work, therefore when Dajobo requested that they be reuploaded, he did not know what they contained. Once he had found what was inside them, he set about talking to VE... only Impero wasn't having it. [/quote] So he got a pm from a guy he knew was in VE with the line "Here are some links you will find useful in regards to VE's military" followed by 3 image links. He naturally assumed these were cute cats with captions. No really we're so far beyond the good faith line here it's not even on the map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seixas Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Fun war is fun, anyone? NpO failed a bit, there's not much shame there... My little brother got caught once with his hand in the cookie jar too, my parents still love him... not, ya know as much as me, but hey, there ya go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roi Loup Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1295350904' post='2581113'] So he got a pm from a guy he knew was in VE with the line "Here are some links you will find useful in regards to VE's military" followed by 3 image links. He naturally assumed these were cute cats with captions. No really we're so far beyond the good faith line here it's not even on the map. [/quote] can you read my sig and tell me wheres its wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Roi Loup' timestamp='1295351260' post='2581115'] can you read my sig and tell me wheres its wrong? [/quote] I like how you're trying to use someone else's creation as your own argument. Stick to your own boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cable77 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295349930' post='2581101']Perhaps MHA should roll Polar for implying that they are not interesting enough to be worth spying on? [/quote] Naw, he's right. We're not worth spying on, we're boring and have no good information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Roi Loup' timestamp='1295351260' post='2581115'] can you read my sig and tell me wheres its wrong? [/quote] Certainly my good man! In fact I was even considerate enough to write it up before you even got here. Here you go. [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1295348851' post='2581085'] You keep missing the fact that Dajobo told him what alliance to spy on. Dajobo gave him instructions and then showed a interest in the screens (shown by having the spy reupload them because they weren't working). While in the case you refer to it was one guy posting screens without even saying what was in them and not being asked by anyone to go get those screens. I know the subtle differences go way over your head but if you put the STA brain-trust on it I'm sure you can figure out why these are two completely different scenarios. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roi Loup Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1295351374' post='2581116'] I like how you're trying to use someone else's creation as your own argument. Stick to your own boards. [/quote] so it makes a good point. am i not allowed to use someones research as an argument? i must use my own? [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1295351528' post='2581118'] Certainly my good man! In fact I was even considerate enough to write it up before you even got here. Here you go. [/quote] doesnt explain why ve said spying wasnt a good cb then but is now tbh. cmon admit the irony and hypocracy is there so we can all just move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Callebaut' timestamp='1295340349' post='2580933'] Frankly, the act of saying "thank you" for received information indicates at least some amount of official, recognized encouragement of spying. [/quote] And I assume a "thank you" is a stronger indication of such than promising to guard it with one's life, right? [17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> guard that with your life [17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> I will [17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> promise When a CB so similar to one in the past is being used, the least everyone could do is check what was said before in order to avoid giving the other side some propaganda points. After all, the very basis of any modern CN argument is: "This event has a superficial similarity/difference from what NPO did, therefore it is exactly the same/completely different." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrnea Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Letum' timestamp='1295352010' post='2581121']And I assume a "thank you" is a stronger indication of such than promising to guard it with one's life, right? [17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[Blackstone]> guard that with your life [17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> I will [17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> promise When a CB so similar to one in the past is being used, the least everyone could do is check what was said before in order to avoid giving the other side some propaganda points. After all, the very basis of any modern CN argument is: "This event has a superficial similarity/difference from what NPO did, therefore it is exactly the same/completely different."[/quote] Ladies, Gentlemen and others, there goes the "we're not as bad as NPO" argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Roi Loup' timestamp='1295351902' post='2581120'] doesnt explain why ve said spying wasnt a good cb then but is now tbh. cmon admit the irony and hypocracy is there so we can all just move on [/quote] Did you even read the post I made? The case 'you' refer to via your brilliant sig. Was a single person posting screens in query with a OV gov without saying what those screens contained beforehand. Here on the other hand Dajobo told the spy what alliance to go to and then had the spy reupload the screens that wasn't working. This was an actual planted spy while in the OV case it was a gov person being linked screens by a random member of the other alliance. It's quite a stretch to claim that these two are exactly alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295352192' post='2581123'] Ladies, Gentlemen and others, there goes the "we're not as bad as NPO" argument. [/quote] Yep that was the game changer right there - the smoking gun - the knockout blow - the ace in the hole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295352192' post='2581123'] Ladies, Gentlemen and others, there goes the "we're not as bad as NPO" argument. [/quote] There aren't many announcements where it hasn't been used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Roi Loup' timestamp='1295351902' post='2581120']so it makes a good point. am i not allowed to use someones research as an argument? i must use my own?[/quote] You should have something of your own to add to it, yes. Otherwise you're literally trying to argue by numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1295352471' post='2581129'] Yep that was the game changer right there - the smoking gun - the knockout blow - the ace in the hole [/quote] Oh look children, its that keyboard with the idiot hanging onto it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295352192' post='2581123'] Ladies, Gentlemen and others, there goes the "we're not as bad as NPO" argument. [/quote] VE is also as bad as NPO now? Way to steal our thing VE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roi Loup Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1295352361' post='2581125'] Did you even read the post I made? The case 'you' refer to via your brilliant sig. Was a single person posting screens in query with a OV gov without saying what those screens contained beforehand. Here on the other hand Dajobo told the spy what alliance to go to and then had the spy reupload the screens that wasn't working. This was an actual planted spy while in the OV case it was a gov person being linked screens by a random member of the other alliance. It's quite a stretch to claim that these two are exactly alike. [/quote] not exactly alike but similar. spying is spying. you cant claim what ov did wasnt spying like what dajobo did. then theres the fact that he didnt actually tell him to spy ve specifically or for any good reason. that and the info was old and warchest info isnt exactly all important i just wonder why if ve thinks warchest info is so important they keep it open to the general public.. its amazingly dumb of one to say that its uber sekret but still leave it open for anyone to take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperator G4G Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Roi Loup' timestamp='1295351902' post='2581120'] so it makes a good point. am i not allowed to use someones research as an argument? i must use my own? doesnt explain why ve said spying wasnt a good cb then but is now tbh. cmon admit the irony and [b]hypocracy[/b] is there so we can all just move on [/quote]I see that the New Polar Order has adopted a new form of government. Who is your new head of state? Lies and Slander? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrnea Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1295352361' post='2581125']and then had the spy reupload the screens that wasn't working.[/quote] You keep bringing this up, but to be fair, if someone linked me screenshots that didn't work, no matter the context, I would ask them to reupload them (even if I planned to immediately turn them over to the relevant authorities) so that I would have proof of what was in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamuella Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 nice to see even the semblance of debate abandoned in favour of simple abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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