Dear VE, A dear message from TKTB's supposed spy

[Thrash]

Based on the information provided earlier in the thread, I find myself in support of VE here. The demasking error was taken advantage of and that shouldn't have happened.

edit: I also applaud not holding the entirety of TKTB responsible.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Thrash

[Penkala]

[quote]at least it appears that VE does attempt to fix any possible security leaks and patch any holes versus what Mathias and Penkala would have them do. if up to Mathias, Penkala, and Banksy, alliance security would be a joke that any person could walk away with the all the secrets[/quote]

What the hell?

What are you basing this off of? What does this even [i]mean[/i]?

[Mathias]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1292171523' post='2537369']
Thank you. i don't honestly know as i believe most in Gre that i knew had 1 mask only. possibly those in the military had 2 but i don't recall if they did or not. but thank you. at least it appears that VE does attempt to fix any possible security leaks and patch any holes versus what Mathias and Penkala would have them do. if up to Mathias, Penkala, and Banksy, alliance security would be a joke that any person could walk away with the all the secrets.
[/quote]

[font="Georgia"]Where did I say that VE shouldn't close security holes? You were ranting and raving about how this whole thing is a VE conspiracy, and people showed up and made you eat your words. Don't pretend that we were being ridiculous for having enough sense to realize that VE didn't intentionally compromise their security to get a CB on a third rate blue alliance. [/font]

Edited December 12, 2010 by Mathias

[Thrash]

[quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1292176540' post='2537414']
Don't pretend like we were being ridiculous for having enough sense to realize that VE didn't intentionally compromise their security to get a CB on a third rate blue alliance.
[/quote]

Where did he say that??

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1292139767' post='2537195']
Snitch.
[/quote]

Snitches get stitches.

[raasaa]

[quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1292176540' post='2537414']
[font="Georgia"]Where did I say that VE shouldn't close security holes? You were ranting and raving about how this whole thing is a VE conspiracy, and people showed up and made you eat your words. Don't pretend that we were being ridiculous for having enough sense to realize that VE didn't intentionally compromise their security to get a CB on a third rate blue alliance. [/font]
[/quote]
Actually, it would be better if this was a VE conspiracy. VE did this on purpose to get a valid CB against TKTB....declare war on TKTB....which would drag in Sirius, Synergy and NpO....blah blah etc etc....gives something better to argue about, rather than the current argument in this topic

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Thrash' timestamp='1292176817' post='2537415']
Where did he say that??
[/quote]

A couple pages back.

Not only does Doch, characteristically, misunderstand and/or misrepresent the positions of others, but his stance that WasDrogan's wrongdoing was more justifiable due to VE's error, and his speculation that VE might be involved, are completely out there.

Edited December 12, 2010 by SirWilliam

[Melchior]

This is so awesome. With WasDrogans attitude, I enjoy seeing the hilariously embarrassing position he put himself into.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1292055376' post='2536225']
Hey, if they were unsubstantiated, we wouldn't be here now would we?

Nothing personal, this is just the kind of thing that happens when you intentionally retrieve information via a medium which you have no right to use, then disclose that information to third parties.
[/quote]
Was this 'medium' open to the public? Or was it protected so that only select persons could access it?

Edit: I've clearly missed a whole thread. I can't be damned to read it, so someone want to give me a quick technical rundown of what occurred?

Edited December 12, 2010 by HeroofTime55

[potato]

[quote name='raasaa' timestamp='1292179035' post='2537431']
Actually, it would be better if this was a VE conspiracy. VE did this on purpose to get a valid CB against TKTB....declare war on TKTB....which would drag in Sirius, Synergy and NpO....blah blah etc etc....gives something better to argue about, rather than the current argument in this topic
[/quote]

Sir, our plot to setup NpO has failed.

[Voytek]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1292181045' post='2537453']
Was this 'medium' open to the public? Or was it protected so that only select persons could access it?
[/quote]
If you spent more than 5 seconds reading the thread you'd know the answer.

[HeroofTime55]

So what I gather is that VE neglected to change the mask. That means this issue is on them. It's like inviting someone into your home and then shooting them for invading your home.

[Voytek]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1292181774' post='2537468']
So what I gather is that VE neglected to change the mask. That means this issue is on them. It's like inviting someone into your home and then shooting them for invading your home.
[/quote]
Let's talk about rape.

[Thrash]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1292181774' post='2537468']
So what I gather is that VE neglected to change the mask. That means this issue is on them. It's like inviting someone into your home and then shooting them for invading your home.
[/quote]

It's not like that at all. It's more like your neighbor let you borrow the keys to their home so you could feed their cats while they were away. For whatever reason, they didn't ask for the key back. At some point in the future, you come across that key and you're like "Oh, wow, I still have this. I can go in there and take their LCD TV, and hopefully they'll have no idea it was me."

[Mathias]

[font="Georgia"]It's actually more like WasDrogan wasn't de-masked properly from NORAD and he abused this mistake, compromising VE security, instead of dutifully reporting it like he should have.[/font]

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1292181971' post='2537471']
Let's talk about rape.
[/quote]
I was just about to inquire as to whether "She was asking for it" is a good argument for shared culpability.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1292176540' post='2537414']
[font="Georgia"]Where did I say that VE shouldn't close security holes? You were ranting and raving about how this whole thing is a VE conspiracy, and people showed up and made you eat your words. Don't pretend that we were being ridiculous for having enough sense to realize that VE didn't intentionally compromise their security to get a CB on a third rate blue alliance. [/font]
[/quote]

actually that is what you said i said. i said that i was curious if VE was looking into the masking error and because you, banksy, and Penkala all said there was absolutely no need, i then provided scenarios as to why there was a need.

so maybe if you stopped trying to make me look foolish you would realize that i am not as stupid as you attempt to make me out to be. it appears that Bob janova understood what i was saying whilst you and Banksy went off the deep end trying to say how ridiculously stupid i am.

then to boot, you are now saying that VE should investigate to close security holes which is basically what i was saying to begin with. awesome job Mathias. awesome job.

@SirWilliam- wow looks like all my fans are coming out. how wonderful.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95608&view=findpost&p=2536992 first post- replying to Impero who was convinced his 4 points were right despite #4 being contested in this very thread. so my reply fit his conviction and the conviction all along from VE and their pals that Was spied whilst no evidence was given until Impero posted. The heart of the issue as Bob Janova was more than capable of deducing was the masking error, which i clarified for special people like you, banksy, and mathias.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95608&view=findpost&p=2537042 - here
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95608&view=findpost&p=2537108 - here
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95608&view=findpost&p=2537126 - here

and when Bob J seemingly deduced my completely illogical, irrational, and completely crazy thinking and replied with an answer. i replied back with this- http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95608&view=findpost&p=2537369 i guess i should have realized who actually has some brains and who does not. but it is quite amusing watching people like you and Mathias go off a deep end trying to make me look stupid.

but yes, i was completely trying to spout off at the mouth some crazy conspiracy theories instead of stopping Impero from claiming something that was not true as well as asking about whether the masking issue was being looked into.

[Mixoux]

It's so funny to see people try and defend the argument that "well it was your responsibility to demask him, so it's your fault". Heaven forbid they ever have a masking incident on their forums and end up having someone compromise information from them. I'll be waiting to see that happen.

[TheListener]

[quote name='Mixoux' timestamp='1292183138' post='2537492']
It's so funny to see people try and defend the argument that "well it was your responsibility to demask him, so it's your fault". Heaven forbid they ever have a masking incident on their forums and end up having someone compromise information from them. I'll be waiting to see that happen.
[/quote]

As I recall the exact same thing happened with NSO not more than a month ago, and everyone on the opposite side of NSO (Pandora's Box and SuperFriends included) were claiming the exact same thing. This is simply a matter of might makes right, and we've already seen what that can do to the alliances in command here on Bob, I expect the same to occur.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1292179224' post='2537433']
A couple pages back.

Not only does Doch, characteristically, misunderstand and/or misrepresent the positions of others, but his stance that WasDrogan's wrongdoing was more justifiable due to VE's error, and his speculation that VE might be involved, are completely out there.
[/quote]

also please point out once Impero stated the evidence in his post (i.e. points #1-3 particularly 2 and 3) did i say Was was justified. in fact i called him stupid and even stated that i fully believed VE should have at him.

but yes, i am the one that characteristically misunderstands and/or misrepresents others right SirWilliam?

just in case you missed it- http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95608&view=findpost&p=2537126

that is where i said that VE can have at him. but this is why you are soooo amusing. this post right here is so hypocritical it is amazing.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95608&view=findpost&p=2537042 this post explains my reasoning, which Bob J clarified when he said that NORAD typically had multiple masks, which i did not know. i also doubt that Mathias or Banksy knew much about that either and were just spouting their usual inane crap trying to downplay anything that might be considered wrongdoing from their side.

and if you look here- http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95608&view=findpost&p=2537053
and here- http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95608&view=findpost&p=2537062

those posts would be the reason i came up with a scenario of VE setting up TKTB. but do note, i never said it was typical of VE or anything, i simply came up with a logical reason as to why someone would give Was another mask despite having access to all the info and then some that Was would have. but yes, again, completely illogical. sorry, i forgot anything that could possibly make one of your allies look bad is illogical, irrational, stupid, misunderstanding, misrepresenting.

anything against someone else is completely logical, rational, smart, completely understandable and representative.

[Mathias]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1292183107' post='2537491']
actually that is what you said i said. i said that i was curious if VE was looking into the masking error and because you, banksy, and Penkala all said there was absolutely no need, i then provided scenarios as to why there was a need.

so maybe if you stopped trying to make me look foolish you would realize that i am not as stupid as you attempt to make me out to be. it appears that Bob janova understood what i was saying whilst you and Banksy went off the deep end trying to say how ridiculously stupid i am.

then to boot, you are now saying that VE should investigate to close security holes which is basically what i was saying to begin with. awesome job Mathias. awesome job.

@SirWilliam- wow looks like all my fans are coming out. how wonderful.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95608&view=findpost&p=2536992 first post- replying to Impero who was convinced his 4 points were right despite #4 being contested in this very thread. so my reply fit his conviction and the conviction all along from VE and their pals that Was spied whilst no evidence was given until Impero posted. The heart of the issue as Bob Janova was more than capable of deducing was the masking error, which i clarified for special people like you, banksy, and mathias.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95608&view=findpost&p=2537042 - here
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95608&view=findpost&p=2537108 - here
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95608&view=findpost&p=2537126 - here

and when Bob J seemingly deduced my completely illogical, irrational, and completely crazy thinking and replied with an answer. i replied back with this- http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95608&view=findpost&p=2537369 i guess i should have realized who actually has some brains and who does not. but it is quite amusing watching people like you and Mathias go off a deep end trying to make me look stupid.

but yes, i was completely trying to spout off at the mouth some crazy conspiracy theories instead of stopping Impero from claiming something that was not true as well as asking about whether the masking issue was being looked into.
[/quote]

[font="Georgia"]There's a massive difference between "Hey VE, you should do a quick check up on your NORAD masking system, make sure there's nothing funny going on." and "WHY DID WASDROGAN HAVE TWO MASKS? MAYBE THE [I]REAL[/I] SPY IS THE ONE MASKING PEOPLE! MAYBE THIS WHOLE THING IS JUST A VE CONSPIRACY TO ATTACK TKTB!"

The former is a helpful tip, the later is just a crazy rant. The former is what you claim to have said, the later is what you actually said. I never claimed that VE's maskings system is immaculate, and perhaps it does need a little maintenance. When an alliance like VE (an alliance that doesn't generally go around messing with people) says that someone compromised their security and then provides proof of what happened, I don't try to find ways to spin the situation and make it their fault. [/font]

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='TheListener' timestamp='1292183548' post='2537502']
As I recall the exact same thing happened with NSO not more than a month ago, and everyone on the opposite side of NSO (Pandora's Box and SuperFriends included) were claiming the exact same thing. This is simply a matter of might makes right, and we've already seen what that can do to the alliances in command here on Bob, I expect the same to occur.
[/quote]

shush you, you make people like SirWilliam, Banksy, Mathias, and the whole crew look bad if you bring up anything logical. but don't worry, i am sure PB/SF crew will be by to state how illogical and misunderstanding you are as normal. it surely is completely different since it happened to them instead of someone they don't like.


that being said- i already gave my reply to Bob J on this matter. glad that the error got fixed and as stated before VE have fun with Was.

oh wait- i forgot that i always misunderstand and misrepresent the situation.. so ixnay the above sentence VE.

BAD VE11111!!!! BAD MASKING ERROR ALL VE FAULT VE MUST PAY1!!!11!1! WAHAARRRRGFFG ALL VE FAULT111!!!!

there, have to keep up the looks that people like SirWilliam have given me.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1292183746' post='2537505']
[font="Georgia"]There's a massive difference between "Hey VE, you should do a quick check up on your NORAD masking system, make sure there's nothing funny going on." and "WHY DID WASDROGAN HAVE TWO MASKS? MAYBE THE [I]REAL[/I] SPY IS THE ONE MASKING PEOPLE! MAYBE THIS WHOLE THING IS JUST A VE CONSPIRACY TO ATTACK TKTB!"

The former is a helpful tip, the later is just a crazy rant. The former is what you claim to have said, the later is what you actually said. I never claimed that VE's maskings system is immaculate, and perhaps it does need a little maintenance. When an alliance like VE (an alliance that doesn't generally go around messing with people) says that someone compromised their security and then provides proof of what happened, I don't try to find ways to spin the situation and make it their fault. [/font]
[/quote]

you mean i am not allowed to blatantly accuse an alliance of wrongdoing but VE, GOONS, MK, and others are allowed to do the same to TKTB? hell, the post i replied to had Impero still trying to state that TKTB gov knew that Was spied and gathered information and again despite it being protested in this very thread.

but hey, glad to see that accusing without any valid basis is a crazy rant. maybe next time you ought to get on your own side about doing it to others. of course if you did that, that would be responsible instead of you being a hypocrite.

TKTB does not go around spying on every alliance either but from the accusations given by your side, it appears every member does or at least condones it. i was driving a point home about accusing others with no proof but it appears to have been way over your head. understandable though. wait- i explained it multiple times to you and you still could not get it. nevermind.

hell- it is obvious you are attempting to make me look bad considering in the first post i said that the person who masked Was was working WITH Was and thus, stated that both spied, not just one. Then you said that VE had no reason to look into the masking error (obviously Bob J disagreed with you as well) and so i gave you an example of why it should be looked into, which again you drag into this whole tin foil hat thing versus what it actually was. yup, i am the dumb one though...

Edited December 12, 2010 by Dochartaigh

[Kahnite]

[quote name='Mixoux' timestamp='1292183138' post='2537492']
It's so funny to see people try and defend the argument that "well it was your responsibility to demask him, so it's your fault". Heaven forbid they ever have a masking incident on their forums and end up having someone compromise information from them. I'll be waiting to see that happen.
[/quote]

You, like several others, are not reading the entire responses by most reasonable folks, which is in summary.

"WasDrogan did do wrong, but VE (specifically the person that's in charge of opsec) was also at fault for not updating security protocols to prevent such a breach from happening in the first place."

What I find funny in the whole affair are the excuses, some rather arrogant, given to defend such an oversight. God forbid that anything should detract from the frenetic declaration of jihad on what was described as a "third rate blue alliance". I speculate that most reasonable heads here on both sides will agree that if proper opsec had been followed, this never would have happened, and none of us would be here debating this point.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='TheListener' timestamp='1292183548' post='2537502']
As I recall the exact same thing happened with NSO not more than a month ago, and everyone on the opposite side of NSO (Pandora's Box and SuperFriends included) were claiming the exact same thing. This is simply a matter of might makes right, and we've already seen what that can do to the alliances in command here on Bob, I expect the same to occur.[/quote]
"Exact same thing"... are you referring to someone being masked as a member while residing on their AA?

One is establishing who should have access, the other is the status of a member. It's a reasonably plausible story that VE didn't demask someone who left the alliance, especially on a secondary account that isn't their forums (NORAD). I can't think of any reasonably plausible story for why a ghost would be masked as a member on the NSO boards.