Dear VE, A dear message from TKTB's supposed spy

[Bob Janova]

Spying in game and 'spying' in the sense of using unauthorised or mistaken access to obtain privileged information aren't the same thing. Your member's warchest wasn't distributed, either, which is really the piece of this puzzle that made the difference. Literally no damage, material or otherwise, was done to you: no physical damage was done and the information gathered wasn't leaked.

[Caliph]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1292200880' post='2537782']
Spying in game and 'spying' in the sense of using unauthorised or mistaken access to obtain privileged information aren't the same thing. Your member's warchest wasn't distributed, either, which is really the piece of this puzzle that made the difference. Literally no damage, material or otherwise, was done to you: no physical damage was done and the information gathered wasn't leaked.
[/quote]
No physical damage was done to your nation, nor to VE, and you had his warchest information to distribute should you have chosen to do so. It was apparent that Impero saw no need for anything more than an apology, regardless if you kept the warchest information to yourself or spread it across the cyberverse. Therefore I can only conclude that the only acceptable solution Impero should see in this incident was that Was should have to apologize, since "nothing was destroyed" ...

Generals warchest was also privilideged, you were unauthorized to have it and you took it via in game spy attacks.

What Was did was take your warchest information from a source you had given it to.

Very similar crimes, yet your's was deemed only punishable by an apology, yet Was's was deemed punishable by war or being ZI'ed.
Again I say hypocrit.

Edit: Do you really think Impero would have changed his mind if you had given out General's warchest? I sure don't. Given his response he seemed utterly uninterested in treating this seriously.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Caliph

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1292201164' post='2537789']
Very similar crimes, yet your's was deemed only punishable by an apology, yet Was's was deemed punishable by war or being ZI'ed.
Again I say hypocrit.
[/quote]

Well we never actually got as far as what his actual punishment was going to be, you may recall that hadn't been decided yet when Was jumped the gun, but Impero's last comment to you was pretty definitive.

[quote]
to be frank you guys have simply $%&@ed with enough of our smaller allies and friends to the point where i simply don't see any need to pay you[/quote]

Spend long enough acting poorly and nobody will be interested in doing nice things for you.

[Caliph]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1292201429' post='2537795']
Well we never actually got as far as what his actual punishment was going to be, you may recall that hadn't been decided yet when Was jumped the gun, but Impero's last comment to you was pretty definitive.



Spend long enough acting poorly and nobody will be interested in doing nice things for you.
[/quote]
Your last sentence applies directly to VE as well.

Don't complain about being spied on if you do it to others.

[Lukapaka]

War will surely make VE feel better about the situation. I see how they felt like they got ripped off, but I have a hard time wishing them any luck at all, considering it was their own fault he had access to information.

[font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2][quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1292201429' post='2537795']
Well we never actually got as far as what his actual punishment was going to be, you may recall that hadn't been decided yet when Was jumped the gun, but Impero's last comment to you was pretty definitive.
[/quote]

[/size][/font][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2]The fact that he was protected under TKTB didn't have anything to do with you holding off, did it? Would you have rolled the AA if he didn't leave?[/size][/font]

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1292201429' post='2537795']
Spend long enough acting poorly and nobody will be interested in doing nice things for you.
[/quote]

Oh man talk about making your own bed.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Schattenmann

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Kahnite' timestamp='1292199059' post='2537761']
Boy, you really that insecure. I have never see so much stupidity and arrogance contained in one fool. Truly amazing.
[img]http://files.sharenator.com/epic_fail3_Epic_Fails-s580x456-48809.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

I'm glad you can find a picture that repeats exactly what you just said while adding little overall content to what was said. Please include more pictures in all of your posts.

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1292199296' post='2537765']
The fundamental difference here is that the TKTB member knew what would happen to him if he chose to act the way he did, yet he did so anyway. Nobody in VE made the conscious decision to give someone access to sensitive information that they shouldn't have had. It's obvious that making sensitive information available to the public isn't normal VE policy, seeing as neither of us have access to it. And I don't think it's anyone's place but VE's to decide how they're going to handle things when a member (employee) makes an honest mistake. Even so, would you reprimand a friend and otherwise great addition to your business (alliance) just because he forgot to lock the front door once? That's just unrealistic.

And as far as the accusations of them spying on \m/, that's up to \m/ to present proof and act accordingly. It's \m/'s job to protect it's members, and if you had solid proof that you were being spied on, that's on you guys to have taken the steps needed to protect your nations. I don't know enough about the situation to say anything else, but I doubt VE would just blow you guys off if you had solid evidence and presented it to them in a professional manner.
[/quote]

Caliph answers this well:

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1292200166' post='2537773']
Now while I admit things could have been handled better, that sure seems to me like I was being respectful and presented my case, and was being brushed off by Impero. An apology was, and remains, not sufficient.
Now if we were to apply this view to Was's behavior recently, perhaps VE should have just sought an apology, since "nothing was destroyed" ...
[/quote]



[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1292201429' post='2537795']
Well we never actually got as far as what his actual punishment was going to be, you may recall that hadn't been decided yet when Was jumped the gun, but Impero's last comment to you was pretty definitive.



Spend long enough acting poorly and nobody will be interested in doing nice things for you.
[/quote]

Which of your small allies and friends have we supposedly disrespected? Please tell me because we've never instigated any trouble with VE or VE's friends. Sounds more like a cop-out than anything else, a big fat "NO U" instead of handling things in the correct manner. Doing things the right way and accepting responsibility for your wrongs isn't the "nice" thing to do, it's the right thing to do and with VE being so uptight about how other people operate you'd think they'd be the first to practice what they preach.

Since no harm was done here by Wasdrogon and due to precedent set by VE, it's clear to me he should be released without consequence. After all, no harm was done to VE's nations.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Lukapaka' timestamp='1292202034' post='2537797']
War will surely make VE feel better about the situation. I see how they felt like they got ripped off, but I have a hard time wishing them any luck at all, considering it was their own fault he had access to information.

[font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2]

[/size][/font][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2]The fact that he was protected under TKTB didn't have anything to do with you holding off, did it? Would you have rolled the AA if he didn't leave?[/size][/font]
[/quote]

I don't think its unreasonable to expect people to report when masking errors happen, because they do every so often. I signed up on many alliance forums in my time in government and when I got masked incorrectly I promptly informed the alliance involved so it could be corrected.


I realize I'm fairly active on the boards here so its an easy mistake to make, but It looks like its time to remind people I'm no longer in government. I retired some time ago, so going after his entire alliance if they didn't give him up or not is in no way my call.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1292202216' post='2537799']
Oh man talk about making your own bed.
[/quote]

Sort of like how you used to be respected but have slowly slid further down the slimy chute of overblown hyperbole and one sided transparent propaganda?

[Caliph]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1292202965' post='2537805']
I don't think its unreasonable to expect people to report when masking errors happen, because they do every so often. I signed up on many alliance forums in my time in government and when I got masked incorrectly I promptly informed the alliance involved so it could be corrected.


I realize I'm fairly active on the boards here so its an easy mistake to make, but It looks like its time to remind people I'm no longer in government. I retired some time ago, so going after his entire alliance if they didn't give him up or not is in no way my call.



Sort of like how you used to be respected but have slowly slid further down the slimy chute of overblown hyperbole and one sided transparent propaganda?
[/quote]
I repeat Marx's question, specifically which VE "allies and friends" have we messed with for Impero's statement to be accurate and factual? Or was it, as Marx and I think, a thinly disguised "no u", with no factual base? If it is a "no u", I really do not see how that helps you refute VE's precident in stating that as long as no damage was done, an apology is all that is necessary.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Caliph

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1292200880' post='2537782']
Spying in game and 'spying' in the sense of using unauthorised or mistaken access to obtain privileged information aren't the same thing. Your member's warchest wasn't distributed, either, which is really the piece of this puzzle that made the difference. Literally no damage, material or otherwise, was done to you: no physical damage was done and the information gathered wasn't leaked.
[/quote]
They are two methods of obtaining the same information--they are the same thing and don't get all cutesy, mister.

[Lukapaka]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1292202965' post='2537805']
I realize I'm fairly active on the boards here so its an easy mistake to make, but It looks like its time to remind people I'm no longer in government. I retired some time ago, so going after his entire alliance if they didn't give him up or not is in no way my call.
[/quote]

I suppose my question wasn't meant to be directed at you, but more to VE in general. Though, I doubt they'd say anything other than "Of course we would have attempted to solve the matter diplomatically at first, but taken action if necessary." My question is rather textbook and since observing a speculation on a what-if scenario, I probably shouldn't have even wasted my time.

[ddog241]

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1292203102' post='2537808']
I repeat Marx's question, specifically which VE "allies and friends" have we messed with for Impero's statement to be accurate and factual? Or was it, as Marx and I think, a thinly disguised "no u", with no factual base? If it is a "no u", I really do not see how that helps you refute VE's precident in stating that as long as no damage was done, an apology is all that is necessary.
[/quote]


you know its a typical "no u" response.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1292202965' post='2537805']
Sort of like how you used to be respected but have slowly slid further down the slimy chute of overblown hyperbole and one sided transparent propaganda?
[/quote]
The only slimy chute around here is in VE's pants. The only thing that has changed is the names of the alliances that are doing things I've always spoken out against. If anybody finds themselves on the wrong end of a Schattenmann post they know why, and they can keep up the "propaganda" crap but the populi know where I stand and what I stand for.

[Caliph]

[quote name='ddog241' timestamp='1292203460' post='2537813']
you know its a typical "no u" response.
[/quote]
Ya, but I want to see if he will own up to it, instead of hiding behind some rubbish excuse or cutesy wording to try to make him look better.

VE did what they did, they shouldn't be criticizing or threatening others for doing the same thing.

[Locke]

[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1292196619' post='2537705']
Sethb was ready, and willing, and even shown to WANT those screens. He knew he was getting them. He lobbied BC to get the screens. He was working with BC. Deny it all you want, but the old logs between him and Demeanor show it.


There is a difference, but it's clear what is happening here.

Also OV was in no position to do anything. They were practically cowering at NPO. You're right, I made a mistake, but Impero did pretty much all the talking. They needed VE to do everything for them and had no backbone of their own. It's really no wonder they burned out and died.[/quote][quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1292200379' post='2537774']
That's the FULL POOP. Spying: Not a problem if VE does it. -Impero, August 2010

You know, there are lots of people up in Bob's range, it would be a shame if this turned into spy on BobJanova week.
[/quote]
I need something that will let me subscribe to your posts.

[Kim Jaym Il]

Well what do you know, something half interesting [i]did[/i] manage to come out of this topic.

[Tigerdonia Redux]

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1292196192' post='2537699']
I also find it funny how when Bob Janova spies others warchests because he's curious its fine, he doesn't care, and VE doesn't care one bit, but when VE's warchests are spied away its somehow a huge travesty, especially because they left the door wide open for Was to come right in whenever he wanted and take them. Hypocricy.
[/quote]

The source of Caliph's butthurt finally comes out!!

[Caliph]

[quote name='Tigerdonia Redux' timestamp='1292207818' post='2537856']
The source of Caliph's butthurt finally comes out!!
[/quote]
For the world to see no less

[perandori]

[quote]I don't think its unreasonable to expect people to report when masking errors happen, because they do every so often. I signed up on many alliance forums in my time in government and when I got masked incorrectly I promptly informed the alliance involved so it could be corrected.
[/quote]

I expect he did make a resignation post before he left so if that is the case he did inform you guys he was leaving and you did nothing
So what would have changed had he informed you a second time

And
Are you guys going to declare on your MoIA(or whoever for that matter dos the mask check )for not doing his job and "helping" a "spy"

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Tigerdonia Redux' timestamp='1292207818' post='2537856']
The source of Caliph's butthurt finally comes out!!
[/quote]
. . . what? Do you mean to imply that the fact that VE committed the acts of war against \m/ that this discussion is about preclude \m/ from commentary on the subject? Because the fact of the matter is that it makes \m/ experts on the subject.

[Penkala]

[quote name='perandori' timestamp='1292208672' post='2537881']

And
Are you guys going to declare on your MoIA(or whoever for that matter dos the mask check )for not doing his job and "helping" a "spy"
[/quote]

Get out, please.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

Bobby J, you really have a 10 billion warchest? Why?

[Caliph]

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' timestamp='1292211471' post='2537989']
Bobby J, you really have a 10 billion warchest? Why?
[/quote]
At his infa level it is hard to spend all his money. He was in Gre for a long time too, very into saving up cash.

Besides it allows him the option of getting into a long war and then rebuilding from ZI after

[Schattenmann]

If that's the case Bob should start dumping money on me.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Schattenmann

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1292212036' post='2538006']
If that's the case Bob should start dumping money on me.
[/quote]
wha? I just pulled a number from my hat.


edit: hat is better than the other word.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Alfred von Tirpitz