Dear VE, A dear message from TKTB's supposed spy

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Poyplemonkeys' timestamp='1292518925' post='2540954']
Nobody in the 'WCE' logs was trying to manufacture a CB except Hero of Time.
[/quote]
Yeah sorry, not buying it. Even beyond that though I have not a single doubt that had the coalition had more power they would have acted on the existing terrible CB of UPN accepting people who we were at war with.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Bill Wallace' timestamp='1292517967' post='2540945']
Well he's done more than you have since you founded CoJ. Don't get me wrong, I know you did a lot as the spymaster for Vox, but as an alliance leader, you just haven't been successful. I know you see yourself as a cult of personality and the standard bearer for all that is righteous on Planet Bob, but the reality is CoJ has been plodding along for 19 months and in that time, you've done nothing of great importance. CoJ is an afterthought. If the Cult was attacked today, who would come to your rescue? You would do better to just pack it in and say you tried instead of letting your festering sore of an alliance continue. My assessment is harsh, but let's just call a spade a spade.[/quote]
You mistake my comment as an assessment of Moldavi's competence/relevence not of the value of your argument. It is the latter. But to answer your question, CoJ was founded several months after NSO, we have 1/3rd the membership, but our NS is the same. What you see as plodding along is a matter of design: Cult of Justitia does not mass recruit, rather than attract swarms of rather useless nations who will be gone in 1 month, or sucking down cash for 6 only to slag off at the first sign of trouble, we have attracted our membership willfully through [i]their[/i] observations of us. Do you think we [i]recruited[/i] two Presidents of GPA? Do you think we recruited the finest writers in CNRP? Do you think we recruited 3 triumvirs of Nemesis? Do you think we recruited a Regent of Ragnarok? I can understand how a member of VE--an alliance which once outsourced recruiting and paid bounties for new recruits to outside entities--would be baffled by this approach to growth, but I'm also sure that barge captains laughed at the first tractor-trailers they saw. What this means is that Justitia's Cult is not comprised of fairweather members, every ruler knows where they will be when they are called to war, and they know that they will be called to war. Maybe you think that CoJ should have hit 100 members in 2 weeks, well, don't you forget that I didn't have a tailwhipped diaspora to call up; the only tattered banner I have to hold up has a V on it, and it got tattered in battle, not by moth's mouths.

Who will come to defend us? I can tell you this: Ourselves, first and foremost. We certainly won't ever disperse to the winds rather than face our fate. The Cult of Justitia does not rely on the fickle councils of foreign alliances to defend it. We have fast friends all over the planet, and we are thankful for them and will come to those who can assist us. We will be the strongest ally to any alliance we may treaty, because we are not treatied to all of them. Our stock is in ourselves. Our foreign policy gives the freedom to stand beside those worth our commitment when they need it, and one day someone will and we will be there. If we are attacked tomorrow, as you put it, and no one comes to our defense, it is a failing on the parts of others.

What has CoJ done? I'll tell you one thing: When the Cult of Justitia was founded we did it on our own terms, on Red, and we went open handed to NPO and in mutual respect and vision forged Senate-sharing for the first time in over two years on that sphere. I'll tell you what I did not do: I do not ask anyone's [i]permission[/i] to form, and CoJ's sphere was not [i]dictated[/i] to me by any Emperor. Are you hearing me? That is the difference in us and you.

"Packing it in" is what people full of fear of their destiny do. It's what people with no vision do. In the last year a dozen alliances have founded themselves on Red right next to CoJ; some have zipped up to 50 and 100 members in matters of weeks; they've met all your little hallmarks. And you know what else? They're gone. They had no vision, they had no will. It took CoJ 100 days to hit 100k NS because it took 100 days to find anyone worth allowing into the cult. It took 1 year to hit 1 million NS because it took 1 year to find that many people worth it. In a time of contraction all over the world, the cult is growing, and it has never stopped growing. The Cult of Justitia is a triumph of vision and will.

[quote name='Bill Wallace' timestamp='1292517967' post='2540945']
High standards? You make me laugh. What kind of standards were you following when you attended the little WCE party in which you guys tried to manufacture a "legitimate" CB against GOONS. High standards. Yeah, that's funny.
[/quote]
See Poyples' post. When the UPN issue was resolved, the party was over. You drink the koolaid if you want to, but out here away from the ranch you're going to run into reality.

[quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1292521920' post='2540984']
Herpity derpity derp, huh?

Well, whatever floats your boat.
[/quote]
You gotta take 'em when they present themselves.

[jekalle]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1292527239' post='2541042']
Do you think we recruited a Regent of Ragnarok?
[/quote]

Just for my own knowledge, which of RoK's former Regents are we talking about? I had a quick look at your roster and aside from WANA's former character, I didn't recognize any Rokkers there.

[Locke]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1292527239' post='2541042']
What has CoJ done? I'll tell you one thing: When the Cult of Justitia was founded we did it on our own terms, on Red, and we went open handed to NPO and in mutual respect and vision forged Senate-sharing for the first time in over two years on that sphere. I'll tell you what I did not do: I do not ask anyone's [i]permission[/i] to form, and CoJ's sphere was not [i]dictated[/i] to me by any Emperor. Are you hearing me? That is the difference in us and you.
[/quote]
That may be one of the best burns I've seen around here in a while.

[quote name='jekalle' timestamp='1292528852' post='2541061']
Just for my own knowledge, which of RoK's former Regents are we talking about? I had a quick look at your roster and aside from WANA's former character, I didn't recognize any Rokkers there.
[/quote]
I think rish joined them recently.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='jekalle' timestamp='1292528852' post='2541061']
Just for my own knowledge, which of RoK's former Regents are we talking about? I had a quick look at your roster and aside from WANA's former character, I didn't recognize any Rokkers there.
[/quote]
[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1292530646' post='2541077']
I think rish joined them recently.
[/quote]

Pardon me, Triumvir.

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1292530646' post='2541077']
That may be one of the best burns I've seen around here in a while. [/quote]
Asked for it.

[Bill Wallace]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1292527239' post='2541042']CoJ is not a failure, VE recruits, CoJ is pastureland where old horses go to die, etc.[/quote]

Here's the deal. You spend an inordinate amount of time trying to paint pictures for the denizens of Planet Bob, but you don't really do anything. For being one of the loudest voices around these parts, one would think that your alliance is in a position to influence, but it isn't. After Karma, you came at VE. Not the other way around. You took every opportunity to knock us. Our reformation, our allies, our policies, blah, blah, blah. You went out of your way each and every time. You did the same to GOONS. Instead of trying to create controversy where there isn't any, why haven't you used your time to shore up opposition to us and our allies through deals/treaties with real teeth? Do you have no plan, grand strategy, or will to affect change? I implore you to not waste another 19 months with silly diatribes against us. Stop being the little pest that won't let go of our pant leg and become a worthy adversary.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1292527230' post='2541041']
Yeah sorry, not buying it. Even beyond that though I have not a single doubt that had the coalition had more power they would have acted on the existing terrible CB of UPN accepting people who we were at war with.
[/quote]
Hang on a minute - the only CB that was bandied around in those logs that people in general showed any sign of accepting was the GOONS raiding a regular UPN member, someone who had never hit GOONS, CB.

[Bill Wallace]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1292527239' post='2541042']I'll tell you one thing: When the Cult of Justitia was founded we did it on our own terms, on Red, and we went open handed to NPO and in mutual respect and vision forged Senate-sharing for the first time in over two years on that sphere. I'll tell you what I did not do: I do not ask anyone's [i]permission[/i] to form, and CoJ's sphere was not [i]dictated[/i] to me by any Emperor. Are you hearing me? That is the difference in us and you.[/quote]

I'm sure if you had created CoJ pre-Karma, you would have been able to do these things as well, right?

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1292532450' post='2541089']
Hang on a minute - the only CB that was bandied around in those logs that people in general showed any sign of accepting was the GOONS raiding a regular UPN member, someone who had never hit GOONS, CB.
[/quote]
Still not a good CB, given that we were willing to pay any and all damages. Nice try though.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1292532903' post='2541093']
Still not a good CB, given that we were willing to pay any and all damages. Nice try though.
[/quote]
As I've mentioned in other places, a lot of people didn't support it. I'm just correcting your ongoing revisionism; if you guys keep at it, in another three months you'll be claiming that UPN wanted to attack you because you rejected Peggy or something.

[img]http://dl6.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1462/1462476ej0fg9wbrs.gif[/img]

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1292533198' post='2541100']
As I've mentioned in other places, a lot of people didn't support it. I'm just correcting your ongoing revisionism;
[/quote]

I didn't say that wasn't the main CB, I just said that others were floated, daggarz for example, being daggarz, ate that stuff up. I realize of course not everyone approved of such ridiculous CB searching, but it was still in the channel, and not fought against as much as your side wants to make it seem.

[quote] if you guys keep at it, in another three months you'll be claiming that UPN wanted to attack you because you rejected Peggy or something.
[/quote]
UPN? Attacking us? Don't make me laugh. Also I just vomited in my mouth a little, thanks.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Bill Wallace' timestamp='1292532380' post='2541087']
Here's the deal. You spend an inordinate amount of time trying to paint pictures for the denizens of Planet Bob, but you don't really do anything. For being one of the loudest voices around these parts, one would think that your alliance is in a position to influence, but it isn't. After Karma, you came at VE. Not the other way around. You took every opportunity to knock us. Our reformation, our allies, our policies, blah, blah, blah. You went out of your way each and every time. You did the same to GOONS. Instead of trying to create controversy where there isn't any, why haven't you used your time to shore up opposition to us and our allies through deals/treaties with real teeth? Do you have no plan, grand strategy, or will to affect change? I implore you to not waste another 19 months with silly diatribes against us. Stop being the little pest that won't let go of our pant leg and become a worthy adversary.
[/quote]
My very existence is a refutation of everything that VE is, why bother with the battlefield? As long as VE does things like demand heads for spies while spying, sells its army to fight in wars based on things it claims to oppose, VE can expect to hear from me, and thus to all who do the same.

[quote name='Bill Wallace' timestamp='1292532858' post='2541092']
I'm sure if you had created CoJ pre-Karma, you would have been able to do these things as well, right?
[/quote]
We didn't need Karma to share the Red Senate--we did it just the same as we did on the Green sphere. We didn't need Karma to create a Red alliance, we just did it. The answer to your question is yes. Shoulder to shoulder with men and women of bold character and iron will and unwavering resolve, I created the conditions to realize my vision, before Karma, after Karma. That is the difference. I created the conditions for my actualization post-Karma. You waited until you were granted permission.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1292441647' post='2540308']
I'm surprised \m/ didn't take it farther, truth be told. I thought they stood up for what they believed in, regardless of possible consequences.
[/quote]
You of all people know there are ways of handling issues beyond war. Insanely throwing our members into assured destruction would have solved nothing and stalled our rehabilitation by atleast 6 months. VE's treatment of us and our inability to respond in a meaningful way served as a gigantic wake up call for us. If anything VE's actions motivated us to take internal and external actions necessary for our survival.

My opinion of the VE spying on \m/ situation is this, "Thank you VE for !@#$ting on us, you may have been the catalyst that saved us"

[Bill Wallace]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1292534443' post='2541112']
My very existence is a refutation of everything that VE is, [b]why bother with the battlefield[/b]?[/quote]
I imagine those who look up to you are disappointed with this statement. This only confirms what many of us already knew and that is you don't have the force of personality to change anything. Too bad.

[quote]We didn't need Karma to share the Red Senate--we did it just the same as we did on the Green sphere. We didn't need Karma to create a Red alliance, we just did it. The answer to your question is yes. Shoulder to shoulder with men and women of bold character and iron will and unwavering resolve, [b]I created the conditions[/b] to realize my vision, before Karma, after Karma. That is the difference. I created the conditions for my actualization post-Karma. You waited until you were granted permission.
[/quote]
You did? Ah okay, that whole TwIP thing. Yes, now I remember. It was entertaining. You're your biggest fan.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Bill Wallace

[Poyplemonkeys]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1292527230' post='2541041']
Yeah sorry, not buying it. Even beyond that though I have not a single doubt that had the coalition had more power they would have acted on the existing terrible CB of UPN accepting people who we were at war with.
[/quote]

Your choice pal, but you have the logs so it's odd that you can't see what's right in front of your eyes. The only 'manufactured' CB even mentioned was by Hero of Time wanting to start a red honey pot and nobody even entertained that idea at all as you well know. The other things discussed were the tech raid on the UPN nation by a GOON that was resolved without discussion with UPN government (later found out to be resolved by the nations involved themselves) that they thought was just GOONS jerking them about and UPN accepting rogues on GOONS into their alliance and expecting them to get peace because they weren't in any wars at the time. You'll see several people saying things should be kept to the actual issue, not the rogues, when we were under the impression it actually was an issue...

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1292523712' post='2541000']
Come back to GOONS.
[/quote]

I tried, it wasn't for me Sorry...

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Bill Wallace' timestamp='1292536747' post='2541148']
I imagine those who look up to you are disappointed with this statement. This only confirms what many of us already knew and that is you don't have the force of personality to change anything. Too bad.


You did? Ah okay, that whole TwIP thing. Yes, now I remember. It was entertaining. You're your biggest fan.
[/quote]
It is my force of personality that changes things.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1292525875' post='2541027']
Over something that should have been solved 3 months ago
[/quote]

It was resolved, \m/ just didn't like the resolution, there is a difference

[zzzptm]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1292534443' post='2541112']
My very existence is a refutation of everything that VE is, why bother with the battlefield? As long as VE does things like demand heads for spies while spying, sells its army to fight in wars based on things it claims to oppose, VE can expect to hear from me, and thus to all who do the same.
[/quote]

Dear Schattenmann,

How are you? I am fine. My allies in VE are trolling you, so I suppose I should troll you, as well. So here goes.

UR MOMS A FIRE

BURN

I hope that cut you to the quick and causes you to rue the day you dared engage in verbal ripostes with VE and its staunch allies in NV. Now pardon me while I shake my fist in your general direction.

In other news, my oldest just graduated from college with a major in MesoAmerican Studies and a minor in Meat Science. The wife is making another batch of her famous spicy turkey tamales, so let us know if you'd like any. Hope you and yours are doing well during this holiday season.

May your New Fire burn brightly,

Zzzptm

[Haflinger]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1292539569' post='2541183']
It was resolved, \m/ just didn't like the resolution, there is a difference
[/quote]
Umm, a dispute is resolved when both sides agree to the resolution. Otherwise it's not a resolution.

[Caliph]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1292524274' post='2541008']
Now hang on there, you were offered an apology during those negotiations (perhaps even the ones that you dumped, I can't be bothered going back to see exactly which ones they were).

And really, your issue is with me, since all VE are doing is not kicking me out. I await your actions with pleasure – speaking personally, of course.
[/quote]
My issue is with VE, since your superior in VE decided that \m/ was not worth forcing you or VE to pay reperations to us for you're acts of war against us.

An apology was not sufficient then, it is not sufficient now. I was offered an apology, why would I accept an apology for something you obviously were not sorry for? You have spied on others since then too. You have not learned your lesson because everyone is too scared of the NPO coming back to power to do anything at all to you.

If an apology was not sufficient 4 months ago, why would it be sufficient now? Just adds more insult to your crime.

Should you want to make this right, you can contact me on IRC (caliph on coldfront and syn) or private message me here. My issue was with your actions, and VE's actions, regarding the incident.

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1292539569' post='2541183']
It was resolved, \m/ just didn't like the resolution, there is a difference
[/quote]
It was not resolved, it remained unresolved, but its not like we're expecting VE to be paying us reps 4 months after the fact.

Telling us to $%&@ off is not a resolution.

[quote name='MrMuz' timestamp='1292525250' post='2541021']
Bob Janova and Caliph should duel on update. No allies backing up either. Well ok, not Caliph, just one of \m/'s champions.

Just make it a 7-day infra destruction using spies. More entertaining than the 10.10.10 fights. Or you guys can just buy cruise missiles and spy each other's cruise missiles away if you want to hug infra.
[/quote]
Heh, I'd do it if he was in my range. In order to get into range i'd need 6 3mill 50 tech foreign aid packages for over a year, and for him to conveintly stop growing Even if he gets to ZI his tech will inflate his nation above mine Somehow I don't think you're going to get to see a Caliph/Bob Janova duel anytime soon

Edited December 17, 2010 by Caliph

[Believland]

[quote name='Bill Wallace' timestamp='1292536747' post='2541148']
You did? Ah okay, that whole TwIP thing. Yes, now I remember. It was entertaining. You're your biggest fan.
[/quote]
To be honest, I'm a pretty giant fan.

-BEazy card carying member of the Schatt fan club.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='zzzptm' timestamp='1292539647' post='2541186']
Dear Schattenmann,

How are you? I am fine. My allies in VE are trolling you, so I suppose I should troll you, as well. So here goes.

UR MOMS A FIRE

BURN

I hope that cut you to the quick and causes you to rue the day you dared engage in verbal ripostes with VE and its staunch allies in NV. Now pardon me while I shake my fist in your general direction.

In other news, my oldest just graduated from college with a major in MesoAmerican Studies and a minor in Meat Science. The wife is making another batch of her famous spicy turkey tamales, so let us know if you'd like any. Hope you and yours are doing well during this holiday season.

May your New Fire burn brightly,

Zzzptm
[/quote]
Hoka-hey! My old friend, how are you? I am very glad to hear about your family's good news; you must be swelling with pride. We were having a nice discussion on current events and all until the "you suck" came up, so I do wish it hadn't been so, but Wakan Tanka willing maybe it will not be so in the future if the reply is too costly. Don't be a stranger and I'll do better to hold up my end.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Schattenmann

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1292547579' post='2541333']
It was not resolved, it remained unresolved, but its not like we're expecting VE to be paying us reps 4 months after the fact.

Telling us to $%&@ off is not a resolution.
[/quote]

If anything it goes against everything VE likes to boast about: maturity.

[Locke]

[quote name='Believland' timestamp='1292548370' post='2541342']
To be honest, I'm a pretty giant fan.

-BEazy card carying member of the Schatt fan club.
[/quote]
I need to get myself a Schattenfann ID number.

[NoFish]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1292534559' post='2541113']
You of all people know there are ways of handling issues beyond war. Insanely throwing our members into assured destruction would have solved nothing and stalled our rehabilitation by atleast 6 months. VE's treatment of us and our inability to respond in a meaningful way served as a gigantic wake up call for us. If anything VE's actions motivated us to take internal and external actions necessary for our survival.

My opinion of the VE spying on \m/ situation is this, "Thank you VE for !@#$ting on us, you may have been the catalyst that saved us"
[/quote]
I'm glad someone out there [i]gets it[/i]. I am sick and tired of reviled alliances like \m/ and NSO !@#$%*ing when people treat them unfairly because they don't like them. It turns out that if people like you they treat you better than if they hate you.