A Statement from the Mushroom Kingdom

[empirica]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1289365893' post='2509038']
Yeah, you actually have me there, I knew it when posted too, that you had already stood up for MK in this thread.

However, there have been a good many NpO, Ronin and STA posters critical of MK the past few days. There have been less Athens, GR, FOB, NV, Genesis, Rok and GOD posters than I would have expected before the mass cancellation* as well. So while you're very definite exception, I think my point still stands that the blow back that MK is facing now is much stronger, and less argued against by non-MK members than we would have seen had they not cancelled their treaties.

As for Rsox and Nando, you both are discussing two different arguments.

1. Was was MK's mass cancellation a PR move?

2. Did the mass cancellation lead a less defended MK (posting wise) both among all the allies they haven't resigned with, and specifically Athens.

*Some one needs to come up with a catchy name for that event.
[/quote]
Though I can't say I've bothered to get with the rest of my gov to form an official opinion on this train wreck, my personal opinion is that nobody is covered in glory. I'm disappointed in MK, that is fact. Taking a trade circle issue, one that most of us have faced many times, and escalating it to this level is ridiculous. Even if you argue that the problem is with the aid thief, and not the trade circle, that argument falls flat on its face too. Every time I've ever had an issue with an aid thief, the solution has always been "I'll be glad to kick him out, deal with him as you see fit". That should be the end of it. Now if the alliance harboring the aid thief refuses to give him up, then you have solid reason for this kind of crap stunt.

I also fail to see why the masking issue is such a big problem for some of you people to understand. Sometimes people fall through the cracks. While you may or may not have the feeling that maybe NSO is using that line to escape whatever punishment is intended, the fact remains that it cannot be proven conclusively. I remember a time, earlier in my alliance's years, where our MoIA was away for a bit. We combed through the membership lists couple times a week and normally found a couple people who had been expelled/deleted/left, and had to de-mask them. De-masking isn't an automatic process unless you know something I don't.

I am not close to NSO. I don't especially like or hate them. My only issue with their part in this is the lack of negotiating. I can understand it to a point. I've been in a couple situations where I didn't feel it would be beneficial to my alliance's health to try either. Particularly in the aftermath of the NoCB war. However, when those situations came up, I could usually find a way to bring it up without being an ass about it. My .02.

[Geoffron X]

[quote name='Quiziotle' timestamp='1289374659' post='2509163']
It's really not. There is absolutely no incentive for us to request less money of the NSO after they've made an open attempt at damaging the reputation of our alliance.
[/quote]
It's silly because nobody's saying that you should reward NSO! They're saying you should have them pay less because, gasp, it's the right thing to do!
[quote name='Floyd' timestamp='1289389262' post='2509258']Jeez try to do people some favors and they start slinging the feces around. My two cents from a perspective of a mindless Kingdom drone move along nothing to see here.
[/quote]
You're a friggin saint.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Geoffron X

[SirBombAlot]

Bawwww, bawwwwww, bawwwww. Push the *&^%$## button already.

[moniker]

[quote name='Denial' timestamp='1289373480' post='2509144']
That's not at all what Quiz said. Just a tip: when you attempt to spin someone's words, you need to at least leave [i]some[/i] of the thrust of the original message in. You're really quite bad at this.

What Quiz is arguing is not that we had no choice in the matter. The Kingdom made quite a deliberate choice, a choice to demonstrate our resolve and make it clear that we do not capitulate in the face of smear campaigns and some righteous indignation from the usual faux moral crusaders. As I have explained previously, if the New Sith Order was interested in negotiating a lower amount of compensation, then heading to this forum and trying to score a few cheap PR points, rather than approaching MK high government with a reasoned and well-expressed case, was not the way to do it.
[/quote]

"We were wrong, but we're so confident in our superiority that we will NEVER admit to it! You can't make us back down from a mistake because we are so tough!"

edit: and the best part is you cannot even refute this without claiming your King, Emperor, Leader whatever is wrong in his own OP.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Moniker

[Thorgrum]

[quote name='Moniker' timestamp='1289398698' post='2509305']
"We were wrong, but we're so confident in our superiority that we will NEVER admit to it! You can't make us back down from a mistake because we are so tough!"

edit: and the best part is you cannot even refute this without claiming your King, Emperor, Leader whatever is wrong in his own OP.
[/quote]

thats an over simplification. The problem with the misstep by the Kingdom is they allowed the Sith a talking point. The sith excel at PR banter, not always to their advantage but its my personal opinion they are very good at it. The kingdom allowed them to be in a position of strength by making this demand, i dont think anyone here can blame RV for his thought process in accepting under the inferred threat of war.

MK would have rolled them up, so he moved to his strength of prose and here we are. I understand Archon's position, its not a pleasant expirence dealing with the Sith lords in a negotiation and particularly not pleasant doing so in this venue as opposed to IRC.

Now Im not really sure why MK keeps going on with it, its clear they are in a weaker position PR wise but perhaps they dont care and I respect that. Ive fought a couple times on the MK side and I like them as a group, this is ugly and a missstep but the inferences of some power mongering simplistic overview like you have given dosent give enough credence to the overall ongoing situation.

thats just 2 cents from the peanut gallery anyway its been a fun couple of days with this thing though.

[Sir Keshav IV]

[quote name='Moniker' timestamp='1289398698' post='2509305']
"We were wrong, but we're so confident in our superiority that we will NEVER admit to it! You can't make us back down from a mistake because we are so tough!"

edit: and the best part is you cannot even refute this without claiming your King, Emperor, Leader whatever is wrong in his own OP.
[/quote]

Continue your spinning without reading the OP. More or less they are saying if NSO had a problem they come to solve not come to the public and whine about it because of which they have lost their chance of re-negotiation. The truth hurts doesn't it?

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' timestamp='1289399730' post='2509314']
Continue your spinning without reading the OP. More or less they are saying if NSO had a problem they come to solve not come to the public and whine about it because of which they have lost their chance of re-negotiation. The truth hurts doesn't it?
[/quote]

They dropped protection of the guy to allow MK to do whatever they wished to him. How is that not solving the issue?

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='Thorgrum' timestamp='1289399539' post='2509311']
I understand Archon's position, its not a pleasant expirence dealing with the Sith lords in a negotiation...
[/quote]

I actually just had a negotiation with Ashok the other day. And aside from him shooting me for having Bieber Fever, he was rather pleasant to deal with.

[Sir Keshav IV]

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1289400327' post='2509320']
They dropped protection of the guy to allow MK to do whatever they wished to him. How is that not solving the issue?
[/quote]

Never said what they did was correct, just pointing out how idiotic that post was.

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' timestamp='1289400619' post='2509327']
Never said what they did was correct, just pointing out how idiotic that post was.
[/quote]

Well then, fair enough. You have a lot of posts to go through in this thread...

[The MVP]

[OOC]You know, kittens don't argue like some of you do and it's like when the World Cup hired Chinese to act as North Korean actors.[/OOC]

What I'm trying to say is MK is at fault.

Edited November 10, 2010 by The MVP

[AirMe]

[quote name='empirica' timestamp='1289392516' post='2509274']
Though I can't say I've bothered to get with the rest of my gov to form an official opinion on this train wreck, my personal opinion is that nobody is covered in glory. I'm disappointed in MK, that is fact. Taking a trade circle issue, one that most of us have faced many times, and escalating it to this level is ridiculous. Even if you argue that the problem is with the aid thief, and not the trade circle, that argument falls flat on its face too. Every time I've ever had an issue with an aid thief, the solution has always been "I'll be glad to kick him out, deal with him as you see fit". That should be the end of it. Now if the alliance harboring the aid thief refuses to give him up, then you have solid reason for this kind of crap stunt.

I also fail to see why the masking issue is such a big problem for some of you people to understand. Sometimes people fall through the cracks. While you may or may not have the feeling that maybe NSO is using that line to escape whatever punishment is intended, the fact remains that it cannot be proven conclusively. I remember a time, earlier in my alliance's years, where our MoIA was away for a bit. We combed through the membership lists couple times a week and normally found a couple people who had been expelled/deleted/left, and had to de-mask them. De-masking isn't an automatic process unless you know something I don't.

I am not close to NSO. I don't especially like or hate them. My only issue with their part in this is the lack of negotiating. I can understand it to a point. I've been in a couple situations where I didn't feel it would be beneficial to my alliance's health to try either. Particularly in the aftermath of the NoCB war. However, when those situations came up, I could usually find a way to bring it up without being an ass about it. My .02.
[/quote]


Brains, she has them.

[kevin32891]

Its too bad that RV and Heggo didn't follow Ashok's and my council about the reps.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1289379873' post='2509214']
Yes there was.


No he wasn't.


No it wasn't.


No it didn't.


No they didn't.


No they didn't. (Because it wasn't)


No they weren't.


No he didn't.


No it doesn't.


Okay I'll give you that one.

Wow, it's like your an entire misinformation department in one person.
[/quote]
ktarthan, wielder of the +22 Megaphone of "NO U."

[Kroknia]

Sometimes I miss being in a checkmate alliance for the reasons you can see earlier in this thread by their posts.

[JackSkellington]

[quote name='Kroknia' timestamp='1289402281' post='2509353']
Sometimes I miss being in a checkmate alliance for the reasons you can see earlier in this thread by their posts.
[/quote]
I want to put just a smiley...but I can't do that.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='SirBombAlot' timestamp='1289395084' post='2509287']
Bawwww, bawwwwww, bawwwww. Push the *&^%$## button already.
[/quote]
Damn bro, your logic and reason sure proved us wrong!

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289388749' post='2509253']
[color="#0000FF"]My main motivation in accepting was not to get NSO rolled over something this stupid and petty. I posted logs because I have felt for years that when back channels are abused to this point, well, then those who abuse them should not get the luxury of privacy that comes with them. PR had nothing to do with this, regardless of what certain individuals say to the contrary.[/color]
[/quote]


I read this, looked at your avatar, read this again, then laughed.

Oh, RV.

Edited November 10, 2010 by tamerlane

[James Wilson]

A possible war over 15 million...only on Bob

[ktarthan]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1289402075' post='2509352']
ktarthan, wielder of the +22 Megaphone of "NO U."
[/quote]
Points without substance deserve replies without substance.

[shahenshah]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1289380101' post='2509216']
The implied threat of force was always there, most blatantly when it was stated:
<Yevgeni> Him or you. We consider NSO responsible as he was, up until a hour ago, one of your members by all standards.
[/quote]

There are some people who have claimed war/force was [i][b]never[/b][/i] considered to be alternative course of action, I wonder what those other options were.

Edited November 10, 2010 by shahenshah

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1289408074' post='2509407']
There are some people who have claimed war/force was [i][b]never[/b][/i] considered to be alternative course of action, I wonder what those other options were.
[/quote]
Me too, I didn't get an answer when I mentioned it earlier.

[Lurunin]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1289408363' post='2509412']
Me too, I didn't get an answer when I mentioned it earlier.
[/quote]

dont worry you never will...i'm still waiting on replies to my questions, only thing i keep getting is "you misread ____/NSO agreed so they have to _____" replies

i actually used to hold MK to a pretty high respect lvl for awhile...however, they need to stop letting their ego's get in front of their morals

[James Wilson]

[quote name='Lurunin' timestamp='1289409255' post='2509420']
dont worry you never will...i'm still waiting on replies to my questions, only thing i keep getting is "you misread ____/NSO agreed so they have to _____" replies

i actually used to hold MK to a pretty high respect lvl for awhile...however, they need to stop letting their ego's get in front of their morals
[/quote]
It doesn't really matter because they're just going to come out and say they don't care what you think of them because your not a person in a position of power.

[Maleatu]

This whole thread is filled with posturing on both sides. I just wish people could learn to set aside their differences and stop being petty. I won't lie, I see most of it coming from MK, but I won't sit here and say that some others on the other side haven't been contributing.