A Statement from the Mushroom Kingdom

[Alterego]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289416485' post='2509519']
He didn't care to know, this much we've established.
[/quote]

Like he said how was he supposed to know what MKs response would have been step by step to different scenarios relating to their attempted extortion when this is what MKs extortionists knew about each step.


<Epiphanus> [b]Well that really depends,[/b] what matters is you are paying.
<Yevgeni> [b]It isn't up to me to decide what will happen if you refuse to pay.[/b] We made a reasonable request and we never expected you to act like idiots about it and make a huge fuss out of it.


Translation: We dont know

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1289421136' post='2509579']
Like he said how was he supposed to know what MKs response would have been step by step to different scenarios relating to their attempted extortion when this is what MKs extortionists knew about each step.


<Epiphanus> [b]Well that really depends,[/b] what matters is you are paying.
<Yevgeni> [b]It isn't up to me to decide what will happen if you refuse to pay.[/b] We made a reasonable request and we never expected you to act like idiots about it and make a huge fuss out of it.


Translation: We dont know
[/quote]

Because the key to extortion was the "extortionists" not knowing what would happen if RV refused payment. Fortunately RV paid and we didn't have to go and find out what would have happened if he refused. That being the case, how is this extortion?

[Arthur Blair]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1289421136' post='2509579']
Like he said how was he supposed to know what MKs response would have been step by step to different scenarios relating to their attempted extortion when this is what MKs extortionists knew about each step.


<Epiphanus> [b]Well that really depends,[/b] what matters is you are paying.
<Yevgeni> [b]It isn't up to me to decide what will happen if you refuse to pay.[/b] We made a reasonable request and we never expected you to act like idiots about it and make a huge fuss out of it.


Translation: We dont know
[/quote]

Good boy. Now if our guys didn't know if there was a banana or not in someone's pocket that might be mistaken for a gun (or not), where is the basis for the use of the term 'extortion'?

[Alterego]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289421521' post='2509584']
Because the key to extortion was the "extortionists" not knowing what would happen if RV refused payment. Fortunately RV paid and we didn't have to go and find out what would have happened if he refused. That being the case, how is this extortion?
[/quote]
Another deflection, he couldnt know is the answer.

[Laslo Kenez]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289421521' post='2509584']
Because the key to extortion was the "extortionists" not knowing what would happen if RV refused payment. Fortunately RV paid and we didn't have to go and find out what would have happened if he refused. That being the case, how is this extortion?
[/quote]

Considering it appears that most people commenting in this thread and on the situation expect each other to say one thing and mean another, and to speak softly and carry a big stick, do you really expect an alliance that was recently rolled for a somewhat similar debt owed to a larger and better connected alliance to think they're actually not going to get declared on for this?

If you train a dog with beatings, what will it expect?

[SoulVici]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289420217' post='2509563']
If I were you, I'd hire a good lawyer HoT. There are countless instances of trademark violations that you have committed and the penalties are no laughing matter. We'll try not to make our demands too high.
[/quote]
It'll probably be only about 15m/250t.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1289422073' post='2509590']
Another deflection, he couldnt know is the answer.
[/quote]

He couldn't know what? What they didn't know and made expressly clear to him that they didn't know? You're damn right he couldn't know. THEY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW AND THEY ADMITTED IT!

Edited November 10, 2010 by tamerlane

[tamerlane]

[quote name='SoulVici' timestamp='1289422363' post='2509595']
It'll probably be only about 15m/250t.
[/quote]

Per violation but thats just a high ball. We are willing to negotiate.

Edited November 10, 2010 by tamerlane

[SynthFG]

How the hell did this get to 50 pages
are we as a planet really this bored

[Geoffron X]

[quote name='SynthFG' timestamp='1289422679' post='2509607']
How the hell did this get to 50 pages
are we as a planet really this bored
[/quote]
Yes.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289421521' post='2509584']
Because the key to extortion was the "extortionists" not knowing what would happen if RV refused payment. Fortunately RV paid and we didn't have to go and find out what would have happened if he refused. That being the case, how is this extortion?
[/quote]
See, this is a case where Alterego flubbed his remark and wound up lobbing the ball to you, giving you plenty of time to set up a return from any angle you wanted. Instead you took your racket and hit yourself in the face.

Is MK just bored and looking for a new challenge by turning their much vaunted propaganda machine against themselves? The level of competent spin control going on has shot so far down I expect it to pop out of Dilber's floor any minute now. Get your act together.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1289422882' post='2509611']
See, this is a case where Alterego flubbed his remark and wound up lobbing the ball to you, giving you plenty of time to set up a return from any angle you wanted. Instead you took your racket and hit yourself in the face.

Is MK just bored and looking for a new challenge by turning their much vaunted propaganda machine against themselves? The level of competent spin control going on has shot so far down I expect it to pop out of Dilber's floor any minute now. Get your act together.
[/quote]

To each their own, love.

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1289422882' post='2509611']
See, this is a case where Alterego flubbed his remark and wound up lobbing the ball to you, giving you plenty of time to set up a return from any angle you wanted. Instead you took your racket and hit yourself in the face.

Is MK just bored and looking for a new challenge by turning their much vaunted propaganda machine against themselves? The level of competent spin control going on has shot so far down I expect it to pop out of Dilber's floor any minute now. Get your act together.
[/quote]

I actually wondered this myself. I am beginning to fall under the assumption that MK likes to play the losers more than the controlling party. As such, this may all be a ploy to turn people “against” them in a sort of way to see where their true friends are, and who accepts them for what they are the most… Or it could be an attempt to draw support to opposing armies so they can lose the next war and have a reason to be vengeful…

I just have such a high regard for MK I don’t want to take this as a blunder on their part, but rather a well calculated move… Given this is a stretch, by all means, and I’m really pulling this whole theory out of my @**, it is something to perhaps consider…

I’ve been thinking about it since they cancelled all their treaties rather unexpectedly. In that event they saw how Athens reacted, and decided not to renew said treaty because of their lack of compassion for the Kingdom’s position. It showed them exactly who was understanding, and who their friends were… (again, given I have no real information on how Athens responded to the cancellation, this is all an assumption.)

I could be completely off base this just doesn’t seem very MKish of them.

[Partisan]

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1289423984' post='2509630']
I actually wondered this myself. I am beginning to fall under the assumption that MK likes to play the losers more than the controlling party. As such, this may all be a ploy to turn people “against” them in a sort of way to see where their true friends are, and who accepts them for what they are the most… Or it could be an attempt to draw support to opposing armies so they can lose the next war and have a reason to be vengeful…

I just have such a high regard for MK I don’t want to take this as a blunder on their part, but rather a well calculated move… Given this is a stretch, by all means, and I’m really pulling this whole theory out of my @**, it is something to perhaps consider…

I’ve been thinking about it since they cancelled all their treaties rather unexpectedly. In that event they saw how Athens reacted, and decided not to renew said treaty because of their lack of compassion for the Kingdom’s position. It showed them exactly who was understanding, and who their friends were… (again, given I have no real information on how Athens responded to the cancellation, this is all an assumption.)

I could be completely off base this just doesn’t seem very MKish of them.
[/quote]

You're cute when you speculate

[SoulVici]

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1289423984' post='2509630']
I actually wondered this myself. I am beginning to fall under the assumption that MK likes to play the losers more than the controlling party. As such, this may all be a ploy to turn people “against” them in a sort of way to see where their true friends are, and who accepts them for what they are the most… Or it could be an attempt to draw support to opposing armies so they can lose the next war and have a reason to be vengeful…

I just have such a high regard for MK I don’t want to take this as a blunder on their part, but rather a well calculated move… Given this is a stretch, by all means, and I’m really pulling this whole theory out of my @**, it is something to perhaps consider…

I’ve been thinking about it since they cancelled all their treaties rather unexpectedly. In that event they saw how Athens reacted, and decided not to renew said treaty because of their lack of compassion for the Kingdom’s position. It showed them exactly who was understanding, and who their friends were… (again, given I have no real information on how Athens responded to the cancellation, this is all an assumption.)

I could be completely off base this just doesn’t seem very MKish of them.
[/quote]
So this was all a ploy set up by MK?

Those clever devils!

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='Partisan' timestamp='1289424714' post='2509636']
You're cute when you speculate
[/quote]

I'm really just trying to rationalize behavior that seems rather out of character for MK. You're talking about an alliance that was a major, if not the major, driving force behind a complete changing of the game, and a rolling of the powers that really controlled the planent. They weren't idiots then, and I refuse to believe that they are now. I don't think any action is without some kind of motive...

[MikeCrotch]

MK has obviously just been hanging around with the wrong sort of people lately

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='SoulVici' timestamp='1289424885' post='2509641']
So this was all a ploy set up by MK?
[/quote]

Like I said, it's all speculation, and I did pull it out of my @**. I just assume MK is more well versed in generally acceptable behavior and actions in CN than to committ a blunder of this scale, and put themselves in this kind of position. I'll be the first to say I could be very wrong.

[rsoxbronco1]

Wait...what's going on?
<---asks this guy

Why are we getting mentioned all the way down on page 50?

(He doesn't seem to know either)

Edited November 10, 2010 by rsoxbronco1

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Denial' timestamp='1289373480' post='2509144']
As I have explained previously, if the New Sith Order was interested in negotiating a lower amount of compensation, then heading to this forum and trying to score a few cheap PR points, rather than approaching MK high government with a reasoned and well-expressed case, was not the way to do it.
[/quote]
Look, RV/NSO didn't need to present a argument as to why your demands were extortion. It is clear to everyone here. It was clear to RV and I am sure he felt it needed no explanation. He did protest and say that the amount was unfair. He was met with:

<Yevgeni> We expected you to realize who has the upper hand here. Actually, we expected your government members to realize that as it's quite !@#$@#$ obvious.

You guys go on to say that though you have the upper hand that you wouldn't use it. So, to use another person's analogy I demand your wallet and wave a gun in the air like a crazy lunatic and tell you give me the wallet, I have a gun and though it's pointing at your head I don't plan to use it. Then when you give me the wallet and I get arrested for my crime, I tell the judge it's not my fault he could have negotiated down and just gave me the pack of bubble gum he had in his pocket.

MK, you guys lost the PR battle. Deal with it.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1289427443' post='2509677']
Look, RV/NSO didn't need to present a argument as to why your demands were extortion. It is clear to everyone here. It was clear to RV and I am sure he felt it needed no explanation. He did protest and say that the amount was unfair. He was met with:

<Yevgeni> We expected you to realize who has the upper hand here. Actually, we expected your government members to realize that as it's quite !@#$@#$ obvious.

You guys go on to say that though you have the upper hand that you wouldn't use it. So, to use another person's analogy I demand your wallet and wave a gun in the air like a crazy lunatic and tell you give me the wallet, I have a gun and though it's pointing at your head I don't plan to use it. Then when you give me the wallet and I get arrested for my crime, I tell the judge it's not my fault he could have negotiated down and just gave me the pack of bubble gum he had in his pocket.

MK, you guys lost the PR battle. Deal with it.
[/quote]
Hey, smart one, I already answered that very specific part of the log (and the exact same argument you're trying to make) about a dozen pages ago.

RV wasn't trying to protest at that point. He had already [i]accepted[/i] the terms. Also, he, himself had just said the very exact words I used. I just told him that, yeah, we expected his government to realize the obvious. Stating reality is now akin to holding a gun to his head?

Despite their numerous attempts at forcing us to go make threats ("what if they don't pay?" "what happens if we refuse all of your demands", etc.), we never threatened anyone with war.

Is it extortion and strong-arming everytime we're in a discussion, just because of our numerical strenght? Because it sure looks like it.

[quote]<Yevgeni> It isn't up to me to decide what will happen if you refuse to pay. We made a reasonable request and we never expected you to act like idiots about it and make a huge fuss out of it.


Translation: We dont know [/quote]
For once, you got it right.

I'm MK's Baron of Tech. Even in the Treasury, I have a superior. I would have been out of line to conjecture on what the next steps would be and it wasn't my place/role to do so. I answered with the truth, I know you might have trouble recognizing it for what it is.

---

For people who go: "what would you have done?", isn't this thread a perfect example of what we could have done? Are your minds so limited that you automatically think we would have went straight to war? There's a lot of other options, economic or diplomatic, that we could have taken. Hey, we even could have made a public thread about it, filled with cheap spin and hilarious propaganda, posting only half the logs.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1289427443' post='2509677']
Look, RV/NSO didn't need to present a argument as to why your demands were extortion. It is clear to everyone here. It was clear to RV and I am sure he felt it needed no explanation. He did protest and say that the amount was unfair. He was met with:

<Yevgeni> We expected you to realize who has the upper hand here. Actually, we expected your government members to realize that as it's quite !@#$@#$ obvious.

You guys go on to say that though you have the upper hand that you wouldn't use it. So, to use another person's analogy I demand your wallet and wave a gun in the air like a crazy lunatic and tell you give me the wallet, I have a gun and though it's pointing at your head I don't plan to use it. Then when you give me the wallet and I get arrested for my crime, I tell the judge it's not my fault he could have negotiated down and just gave me the pack of bubble gum he had in his pocket.

MK, you guys lost the PR battle. Deal with it.
[/quote]
Actually, it's more like a man who has been known to own a gun walking into a corner store, and buying a pack of gum. Right before the employee completes the transaction, he runs off with the money. The owner comes out from the back and explains that it was an ex-employee that they had never bothered to ask to return their uniform. The man gets worked up, and demands that in compensation he be given more goods than he has actually paid for. The owner, knowing that this man owns a gun, but not actually having any reason to believe that the man has his gun with him, or that the man would respond with violence in any way, accepts the demands. The owner then goes to the local news station and tells them all about the man who had robbed him at gunpoint. The police are called and they question the owner, who is promptly arrested for trying to use a terrible analogy about politics and international trade deals to describe the situation, because long winded and biased analogies used for debating subjective points are always incredibly terrible, and likely illegal in most countries.

Edited November 10, 2010 by ktarthan

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1289428836' post='2509698']

Despite their numerous attempts at forcing us to go make threats ("what if they don't pay?" "what happens if we refuse all of your demands", etc.), we never threatened anyone with war.

[/quote]
Hey smart one, the point of this entire fiasco is that MK failed.

Instead of correcting the mistake of demanding such high reps, Archon comes in here and makes the mistake even worse by stating that the demands will stand and threatens war. If Archon was not threatening war then why the deadline?

You guys failed. You own this failure. Deal with it. Use this failure and learn from it or face the consequences if you continue to pull this down the road. Karma, you know that thing Archon is so famous for...MK isn't immune from facing the same wrath.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

Hey, Archon found the reps a bit high but RV found them perfect. Chump change, even. You can claim that they were too high, sure, but your side can't say that they're too high and yet, at the same time, call them chump change.

Also, if we're going to face a massive "Karmaic" war because of 15m and if that's the best you have, I think it will be a long time coming. Good thing is I'll finally be able to buy a WRC, I guess.

[Rebel Virginia]

[color="#0000FF"]Actually I said the reps were rather high and completely unwarranted, however, if it would prevent a stomping I'd consider it a bargain. Do not assume that because I agreed to the payment under duress that your actions were justified.[/color]