empirica

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1329260860' post='2920623'] That or people may not have any other explanation as to why someone would betray the deep trust others put in him/ understand how someone could go from a (mostly) rational actor to raving crusader in the blink of an eye. The concern and confusion is well justified... PONY? WHERE?! Though I maintain its narcissism with a good deal of butthurt that is the root cause of all of this. Still, what he did was pretty !@#$%*. [/quote] As mentioned, I don't know him that well, this may be completely out of character for him. Just suggesting to the masses that there can be more than one explanation for a given set of behaviors. Also, from what I remember from Roq's active days in Umb, he posted pretty often publicly then as well, which further leads to my confusion on why # of posts is an indicator. As for opinion on what he's done, it's never fun when one party breaks trust and sells out secrets real or imagined on the other. But it's been a part of gameplay for a good bit of forever so I guess I'm de-sensitized. Until I'm on the receiving end, and I will be butthurt too

[ooc]I don't know Roq as well as many here, having only spoken to him a handful of times. But people decrying him as insane based on number of posts on a forum that is meant to hold..*gasp* posts seems a bit of a stretch. During times when things are interesting, more people post more things. During times when things are dull, fewer people post fewer things. A large number of posts may correlate to having more free time, or a wish to escape from something more tedious, school work perhaps. It could also be what he's implied if not stated; he posted something controversial and he's taking the time to defend it. The fact that it happened now as opposed to another time could be because he has more time on his hands. I guess it could be a sign of a disorder such as obsessive compulsive but many people handle that particular disorder pretty effectively. If people could take a moment from debating Roq's mental capacity, I'd be interested in seeing actual debate on this 'scandal'. I recall the OWF post where Bros volunteered to help alliances switch/secure their forums, several years back I think. I thought it was a nice gesture but ultimately decided my alliance's forums were more secure without an outsider having any special access to it and didn't give it another thought until now. No offense meant to those who genuinely worry for Roq's health and well being. But being presented in this light, it just comes off as deflection. Ooh look, a pony!

[quote name='NoMercy' timestamp='1322461583' post='2854522'] 1. To the spying: If it happened, it wasn't sanctioned by the government. If you gave us the evidence, it wouldn't have stayed unpunished. In retrospect, that's all I can say about that. 2. In your very first post you attempted to draw a picture of us as an opportunistic, disloyal group. This second post, sounds different. And I am very glad you mention the "friends over treaties" point. That's exactly what we did. We grew apart from the NpO for months, as mentioned, they slapped our face with hitting alliances we'd be obligated to defense. They tried to play our direct allies GGA and Grämlins into a war. That showed us, that they totally disregarded us, and attempted to use us for their own good. Really, after that, there was nothing left to repair. We knew, they'd just fool us again. 3. I can't understand that you believe we were democratic at any point. When we decided to hit NADC - as an example - Polar told us, that they'll show us the evidence. When it didn't come, and we questioned the whole war, the insulted us for not being loyal. That's not what I'd call a democratic procedure. It was a "Polar suggests something, everyone agrees, and the bully train rolls" system. But back on track: What they have done to us, is exactly what they pulled 2 years later. They aren't honest. They play people for their own advantage. That is a legit strategy. Thanks to the good communication of TOP, MCXA, Grämlins and a few others it didn't work the first time. It however worked the second time, and now they are receiving the bills for it. [/quote] 1. Very shortly after this happened, the noCB war happened. Didn't figure we had a chance at doing anything about it given the circumstances. 2. Wasn't meant to but tbh that was pretty much what I thought of MCXA at the time. Despite many attempts at the time to make it otherwise, my then alliance was much closer with Polar than you guys, and several other alliances affiliated with BLEU. They were our friends before protectors, and their friendship will never be forgotten. Never got close enough to MCXA (and a few others) to have that level of relationship, hence standing alongside our friends in Polar through all the bad times. 3. Wasn't in BLEU for NADC part I but what I saw on the BLEU forums painted a fairly united picture, though I recall a couple dissenters. NADC part II didn't meet with any real debate. It was still democratically run because majority ruled (don't recall the specifics, maybe 3/4? Not sure) Everyone who's ever gotten anywhere in this game played people for their own advantage. Some alliances are just more blatant about it, and tend to get rolled for their trouble. I'm unsure of what first time you speak of.. Gramlins DoWd Polar for reasons unrelated to the rest of the noCB war, I always assumed it was for the assumption that Polar engineered the war against them, which wasn't the case but was the commonly held belief.

[quote name='NoMercy' timestamp='1322414461' post='2853816'] That's not true. I don't know about any spying. There was nothing we could have gained from the BLEU Forums anyway. Fact is, Polar played big bully, used us as "meatshields", and even attacked a MDP partner of Viridia (who was MCXA's MDAP partner and close friend at that time). They also tried to fool Grämlins in a war against Bilrow at that time. Since Polar didn't want to listen, we attempted to boot them,since that didn't work, we left ourselves. We made mistakes, but Polar wasn't a victim either. Read up on history. I know you were BLEU gov at that time. But you, like most others, just sucked up to them, and that without any questions being asked. [/quote] Afraid it is true, I was an admin and saw it. It was rectified at better than TOP speed and most planning took place in IRC anyway. But the intent was still wrong. Polar made a multitude of mistakes during that time period, mistakes that were talked about in private during and after. Some of us put friendship over politics and forgave. Some of us did not. None of the MDP level partners in BLEU sucked up to Polar, it was a democratically run bloc. And everything was questioned. Not saying mistakes weren't made, obviously they were. Polar wasn't blameless and neither were the rest of us. As for reading up on history, I've been here since June 06, I was here for pretty much all of it. [quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1322433655' post='2854033'] You're claiming to know more about TOP's opinions than TOP does. That strikes me as a bit odd. [/quote] Nowhere did I say anything about TOP's opinions on anything. I know what I saw in public, and I know that TOP and Polar both hold grudges for a really long time.. see OP if in doubt. Relations may have been warming up but I'd be particularly wary of stuff like that given your respective histories.

Very sad to see this. You were an awesome group. Best of luck wherever you end up.

[quote name='Vandal' timestamp='1322328159' post='2852625'] What should be stressed here is Polar's lack of ability to be trusted along with their poor record of how they treated their allies just doesn't stem from the Bi-Polar war. Hell, it even extends past the days of BLEU. Polar was a !@#$% alliance run by !@#$%bags 5 years ago. Their high and mighty, full of themselves mentality has finally caught up with them once people figured out what they were all about. The difference between ES and the leaders that followed was ES had a great talent for being able to insult you and have you believe he just gave you a compliment. Everyone followed that cult of personality. Anyone that saw through it were invariably trounced and it wotked. NpO was a great and successful alliance because of it. However, ES was right when he stated to the alliance that HE was NpO. Without him at the helm, the alliance had a leader with the same arrogance that was eventually its downfall because face it, Grub is no ES. When MCXA left BLEU, Polar called them fair weather friends and traitors. No. It's just back then MCXA knew what you guys were well before anyone else and did what was right. Polar did a great job at playing the victim. Now? Your plays at it again will no longer be viewed as nothing more than the desperation it is. Reap it Polar.. [/quote] MCXA at that time was a fair weather friend. They left BLEU for One Vision while One Vision was planning a war on BLEU. Someone at MCXA put some overriding permissions on masks in hopes of spying as well. There's a reason that most of BLEU hated TSO upon their formation. Pretty much everyone at MCXA who had screwed over BLEU was in it. [quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1322379815' post='2853529'] NpO was not an enemy of TOP at that time. Relations had been improving, and contact had been close, for some time. There were even talks of a possible treaty. You, like Jaiar, have pretty much never gotten anything right on here. [/quote] TOP and NpO had been enemies for years, ever since ES's statement about dancing on your grave. Trusting someone you had so publicly hated was not smart. But tell you what, I won't drag this up anymore if TOP shuts up about the Polar betrayal and grave dancing things. Deal? It's a public service really.

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1305187270' post='2710593'] Why didn't you merge into Ronin or the other checkmate alliance (OPA??)? [/quote] OSA is the alliance you reference, not OPA. As for why, it was a member vote on where to go, simple majority won. Thanks to all the well wishers ITT.

[quote][center][img]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f230/tmh1225/Games/flaggenesisia2af1.png[/img][/center] After nearly four years, Genesis has decided to call it quits. We have had a good run, making many new friends and allies along the way. We've been fortunate enough to enroll and educate some awesome members. Some of them are still around, some have moved on to other worlds. We have had been fortunate in our allies as well. For those who have stuck by us through thick and thin, we appreciate it. We will always remember the good times, and I am certain many of us will stay in contact. The legal stuff: The members of Genesis have voted to merge into New Polar Order. As such, New Polar Order has agreed to protect the Genesis AA for a period of 30 days from this notice. All treaties of Genesis are considered null and void, they will not be carrying over. Other stuff: I suck at shoutouts, but those closest to us know who they are. /s/ for Genesis empirica Templar flygirl /s/ for New Polar Order His Imperial Excellency RandomInterrupt of Amber, Eternally At Fault. Diplomatic Shark, Mr. Sith Lord Bear, Caliph of the New Desolate Order, Minister of Sexual Healings, The Baconator, Theodore Roosevelt, In GE's Quit Message, Comrade of the Glorious People's Glorious Revolution, Scourge of the OWF, Genesis Minister of Awesome, favored son of Walford, Savior of the Disillusioned, God-Emperor of Mumbai, Destroyer of the Betrayers, and Clint Eastwood's inspiration. Also, Wisconsin. [/quote]

Congratulations! Here's to many more!

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1298118566' post='2638343'] Just a minor point: it's GOD, not GoD. The 'O' is Order, not a word that should be lower-cased in an acronym. When what you're supporting is unjustifiable. If you want to be a good ally to CSN, get over to their boards or IRC and try to make them see sense. [/quote] This is rich, and it can be said about so many aspects of the current 2 wars. Supporting unjustifiable (and barely justifiable) actions is what escalates the wars from one or two alliances to engulfing the whole non neutral world.

[quote name='Axolotlia' timestamp='1296936034' post='2620841'] Why can't people understand that if there are terms, its not [b]white[/b] peace. Its just peace. [/quote] OP identifies it as peace and not white peace. I've been referring to it as grey peace, but that term hasn't caught on. Give it time.

Good end to the war, and we had classy opponents in FOK. Thanks to Tromp, Cheeky, weitze, and all the people I was fighting personally.

[quote name='Maleatu' timestamp='1296877986' post='2619820'] Who are you again? Seriously, because I want to know why you're speaking to me. [/quote] I'll never understand the point of these questions. I clearly see a name, and an AA. From the tone of the posts, I would assume his alliance Ronin is an ally of OSA. I would make that assumption even if I weren't already in the know because I'm allied to them both.

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1296864505' post='2619650'] OSA and Genesis were on the opposite sides of the first stage of Bi-Polar, weren't you? [/quote] No.

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1296806158' post='2619072'] Shh. Don't tell him that this isn't the first time that Checkmate members have been on opposite sides of a war. He'll stop saying funny things if that happens. [/quote] Checkmate was signed at the in January of 2010. The only war of consequence since that time was BiPolar. Checkmate alliances were all on the same side then. Checkmate didn't exist in wars prior to BiPolar, though I seem to remember it was under discussion for awhile.

Grats on peace ARES and GO

Congrats to my friends and allies in GOD and my war buddies from last year in GATO.

[quote name='Poyplemonkeys' timestamp='1295606363' post='2588967'] Bi-Polar, part 1 We (Nemesis) declared on ARES and you briefly countered until everything went insane. I think I fought you personally, funny how things change... [/quote] Templar corrected me last night. We did roll beside each other in Karma though. Then again in Bi-Polar. And again now. Yeah I think you might be right on the fighting. I didn't like that war much. Hell, nobody liked that war much. [quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1295629534' post='2589252'] I don't like this war very much. Can we trade it in for a new one without a bunch of our friends on the wrong side? [/quote] If I had any idea how to do it I would have done it days ago. :/

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1295597261' post='2588841'] For the love of admin, THIS! [/quote] Man, why????!!! I'm going to have to hear about this forever!!! On the other hand... so will you lol

Have fun GOD. I'll echo the sentiments of some of your folks in another thread. One day we'll roll together in something.

Thanks for the assistance ARES. Fun riding to war with you again Remember the good ol' days.. in ... uh... I guess it was Karma?

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1295589483' post='2588527'] I laughed hard when I saw this. Genesis, you are boned. [/quote] Maybe, possibly, perhaps, who knows? [quote name='tator' timestamp='1295590148' post='2588560'] good luck my old allies and friends we seem to always be on the other side any more lol [/quote] One day old friend, one day.

Guess I should make an appearance here now. Nothing personal FOK, just helping our buds. Also, I agree with NoFish o/ Polar o/ us o/ them o/ watching stuff burn

[quote name='The Reccesion' timestamp='1295501289' post='2585153'] So? GOD is attacking UPN, not NpO. Pathetic. [/quote] Not getting your point. What's pathetic? GOD declared war on UPN. I have no treaty with them. I do have a treaty with GOD. GOD's leader is disrespected itt, I defend based on what I've witnessed myself, or what I have been apart of myself. I also have a treaty with NpO, which really has nothing to do with this announcement, other than I answered your question of whether we had a treaty with them.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1295499704' post='2585022'] I know more than you think I know, so I know what wrangling went on in the last day or two, and won't be eating this crap sandwich. I can smell it. But thanks for the kind words. [/quote] I have no idea what you know. I just know I've been in the middle for the last several months, and I know what I've witnessed. What I've seen doesn't match up with what you're saying. Not calling you out, not calling you a liar, etc. Just saying I've found Xiphosis, and GOD in general, to be great allies, and a great help through a pretty trying time. [quote name='The Reccesion' timestamp='1295499860' post='2585029'] Don't you have a treaty with NpO? [/quote] We do. We have one with GOD as well.