Reformation of TBBAF and DoW

[PrinceArutha]

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='09 May 2010 - 08:02 AM' timestamp='1273388514' post='2292270']
I really don't like the unconditional surrender precedent that is being set here. I think if the tactic is successful it would be detrimental to the game. I support him in principle and I'm guessing the 338 nations of IRON and DAWN concur as well.
[/quote]

I think there are more than 338 nations who do. I would venture to say a much larger number agree with him in principle.... from BOTH sides of the fuzzy line.

[Caliph]

What is with these unaligned people trying to claim they are an alliance, and then going rogue on an actual alliance?

Rogue unaligned nations are not an alliance, they are nothing other than rogues and deserve to be treated as such.

Too bad \m/ is not tech raiding, otherwise it would be open season.

[PrinceArutha]

[quote name='Caliph' date='09 May 2010 - 08:47 AM' timestamp='1273391253' post='2292300']
What is with these unaligned people trying to claim they are an alliance, and then going rogue on an actual alliance?

Rogue unaligned nations are not an alliance, they are nothing other than rogues and deserve to be treated as such.

Too bad \m/ is not tech raiding, otherwise it would be open season.
[/quote]
what's with all the posturing and threats? you're a trium.... cant you ya know, change the rules at whim and such? I mean if you hate the guy that much and all, or maybe you just like the gramlins that much? I dunno. either way it seems like you could make an exception and what not.


I shouldnt drink and try to make sense. Too many and "such's" and "what not's" in there. Im going to bed before the jack daniel's single barrel starts to wear off.

Edited May 9, 2010 by PrinceArutha

[Starfox101]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='09 May 2010 - 01:44 AM' timestamp='1273365837' post='2291912']
I expect that those who support the idea of uncondional surrender will attack me. However the fact is this is as much for \m/ or any alliance as it is for IRON. No alliance should have those terms placed on them. And allowing Gramlins to get away with such terms will encourage others to as well. Their are plenty of alliances I do not like on Bob but, I would not want to see them placed under such terms either.
[/quote]
You were an enemy of Vox Populi. You were a backing member of the New Pacific Order's regime during their reign of terror. You enabled things far worse than this. Drop the moralist stance. You of all people, can't pull it off. Your hands are drenched in blood.

By the way, don't pretend this is for all citizens of this world. It's not. This wasn't exactly a great speech to inspire others. It's riddled with holes, and won't change anything. Real change takes effort, I see this lacking.

I've always liked a revolutionary idealist, though, so you appeal to my senses there. Good luck, or something.

[Thomas Jackson]

[quote name='PrinceArutha' date='09 May 2010 - 04:00 AM' timestamp='1273392009' post='2292309']
what's with all the posturing and threats? you're a trium.... cant you ya know, change the rules at whim and such? I mean if you hate the guy that much and all, or maybe you just like the gramlins that much? I dunno. either way it seems like you could make an exception and what not.
[/quote]

I only need the orders for weapons-free before this crusade for "justice" will be nothing more than a miserable little pile of rubble.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='KainIIIC' date='09 May 2010 - 02:39 AM' timestamp='1273387145' post='2292261']
For all the talk and foot-dragging about how terrible this Gramlins move is, why is it that so many opposite to IRON's side moan and complain when someone actually tries to do something about it?
[/quote]

What is he doing besides attention-seeking?

Besides, I don't oppose Grämlins' actions. In fact, I really don't care. They're well within their right to demand whatever they want from the alliances they had beaten. However that isn't the topic of discussion right this moment.

[Caliph]

[quote name='PrinceArutha' date='09 May 2010 - 01:00 AM' timestamp='1273392009' post='2292309']
what's with all the posturing and threats? you're a trium.... cant you ya know, change the rules at whim and such? I mean if you hate the guy that much and all, or maybe you just like the gramlins that much? I dunno. either way it seems like you could make an exception and what not.


I shouldnt drink and try to make sense. Too many and "such's" and "what not's" in there. Im going to bed before the jack daniel's single barrel starts to wear off.
[/quote]
Posturing? It has consistantly been the position of alliances to attack rogue nations, and has been since Caliphate was founded over 3 years ago.
Did something change? Did the memo get lost in the mail?

The only posturing I've seen is people egging this rogue on, trying to encourage more rogues. If you really want to "show them ebul Grämlins" join IRON or DAWN or another alliance at war with them. Don't go rogue.

The Big Bad has no grounds to suddenly grow a set of morals, and frankly I'm confused as to why this is in a section related to Alliance Announcements, as TBBAF is not an alliance as defined by many real alliances' charters.

As for the line about me being a Tri and why don't I just change our rules all whilly nilly like? We have a process for that sort of thing, and that process is not "lets do what Caliph says", its "the tri and gov discusses things and we come to a consensus".

The only "threat" you say was me threatening that \m/ would be tech raiding his unaligned, rogue $@! if we were tech raiding. We are not tech raiding at the moment, so I will instead wish whoever wants to tech raid The Big Bad good luck.

[Hymenbreach]

Perhaps you should reband as NuVox?

Anyway, give 'em Purgatory.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Emperor Marx' date='09 May 2010 - 04:19 AM' timestamp='1273393127' post='2292323']
What is he doing besides attention-seeking?

Besides, I don't oppose Grämlins' actions. In fact, I really don't care. They're well within their right to demand whatever they want from the alliances they had beaten. However that isn't the topic of discussion right this moment.
[/quote]

Right now he's tying up 3 Gramlins nations and preventing them from retreating to Peace Mode...which militarily speaking is more than anyone else is doing outside of IRON and DAWN.

Look, this war is continuing over semantics. To make matters worse, Gramlins (44 nations declining in NS and numbers) is insisting on IRON (325 nations and increasing in strength) surrender unconditionally (well not unconditionally...semantics, remember?)--it's just not happening. The time for it to have happened was during IRON-DAWN's original concession to its other enemies.

[i]OOC: The whole sad episode puts me in mind of a D&D session in which one player isn't happy merely raiding the dragon's lair with his fellow party members, he feels compelled to kill the dragon, even after his comrades have left to divide up the spoils. Death will ensue, but not the dragon's.[/i]

Perhaps TBB's crusade against Gramlins will build momentum and others from alliances under terms that prevent them from helping IRON militarily will join in, perhaps not, but at least someone's making an effort to end this thing.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='Hymenbreach' date='09 May 2010 - 10:23 AM' timestamp='1273397010' post='2292342']
Perhaps you should reband as NuVox?

Anyway, give 'em Purgatory.
[/quote]
Um, no.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='09 May 2010 - 09:27 AM' timestamp='1273397213' post='2292347']
Right now he's tying up 3 Gramlins nations and preventing them from retreating to Peace Mode...which militarily speaking is more than anyone else is doing outside of IRON and DAWN.

Look, this war is continuing over semantics. To make matters worse, Gramlins (44 nations declining in NS and numbers) is insisting on IRON (325 nations and increasing in strength) surrender unconditionally (well not unconditionally...semantics, remember?)--it's just not happening. The time for it to have happened was during IRON-DAWN's original concession to its other enemies.

[i]OOC: The whole sad episode puts me in mind of a D&D session in which one player isn't happy merely raiding the dragon's lair with his fellow party members, he feels compelled to kill the dragon, even after his comrades have left to divide up the spoils. Death will ensue, but not the dragon's.[/i]

Perhaps TBB's crusade against Gramlins will build momentum and others from alliances under terms that prevent them from helping IRON militarily will join in, perhaps not, but at least someone's making an effort to end this thing.
[/quote]

Pretty sure chickens are coming home to roost on these shens.
Nothing better than raiding a rogue.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='09 May 2010 - 10:27 AM' timestamp='1273397213' post='2292347']
To make matters worse, Gramlins (44 nations declining in NS and numbers) is insisting on IRON (325 nations and increasing in strength) surrender unconditionally (well not unconditionally...semantics, remember?)--it's just not happening.

[i]OOC: The whole sad episode puts me in mind of a D&D session in which one player isn't happy merely raiding the dragon's lair with his fellow party members, he feels compelled to kill the dragon, even after his comrades have left to divide up the spoils. Death will ensue, but not the dragon's.[/i]
[/quote]
You make it seem as if Gre is outclassed and shouldn't be demanding a surrender when they will lose. If that's the case, why whine? Wait for IRON to simply destroy Gre then. Since apparently, IRON has the massive advantage, it shouldn't be a problem.

OOC: lol wow

[Hymenbreach]

[quote name='Starfox101' date='09 May 2010 - 10:27 AM' timestamp='1273397243' post='2292349']
Um, no.
[/quote]
Well, if it annoys the old Pox, that's just gravy.

[R3nowned]

Can't be with you there in person, but I support you in spirit TBB

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Caliph' date='09 May 2010 - 03:47 AM' timestamp='1273391253' post='2292300']
What is with these unaligned people trying to claim they are an alliance, and then going rogue on an actual alliance?

Rogue unaligned nations are not an alliance, they are nothing other than rogues and deserve to be treated as such.
[/quote]
He's inspired by [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=77695"]this guy.[/url]

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='09 May 2010 - 02:41 AM' timestamp='1273387260' post='2292262']
[color="#0000FF"]Good luck Big Bad. Had you told me about this before I rejoined the NSO I might have joined you.[/color]
[/quote]

Sorry RV but as those who did show up and volunteer found out we were not really taking any members. I may have exaggerated that part.

[lonewolfe2015]

[quote name='PrinceArutha' date='09 May 2010 - 02:30 AM' timestamp='1273386614' post='2292257']
wait, what? you DO realize who you are talking about here? I cant say TBB and I are the best of buds and our alliances have been at odds off and on for a long time but I can also say there isnt too many people on planet bob that I love to hate as much as this man. Despite it all he is a stand up guy and fights for what he believes in with a passion.... (even if in the past it has been against me and my allies). likening TBB to a 3rd grade school girl is inappropriate and unfounded... though I have heard rumor he looks great in the school girl outfits.

also, me/ glares at TBB all shifty eyed like.... just for old times sake.

on a side note, TBB, pop into #NV when you get a chance sometime soon. Im for bed tonight but We should chat sometime and catch up.

o/ TBB for standing up for what you believe in.
[/quote]

No, I likened the intelligence this thread will garner to the amount a 3rd grade school girl would have.

As for him (and this goes to TBB as well) no, I do not care to follow all of the rulers here who all have egos the size of Manhattan, it would be a waste of my time and yours. I just find it funny that so many people (such as TBB in this instance) feel they need to make a big stink about situations in more places than one to draw attention to their cause. There are more ways than creating a mess in the Alliance Announcements to help do what you feel is right.

E: Hal, who is he tying up exactly? He hit 3 nations with IRON already on them and in no offensive wars.

Edited May 9, 2010 by lonewolfe2015

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='lonewolfe2015' date='09 May 2010 - 10:57 AM' timestamp='1273417006' post='2292464']
No, I likened the intelligence this thread will garner to the amount a 3rd grade school girl would have.

As for him (and this goes to TBB as well) no, I do not care to follow all of the rulers here who all have egos the size of Manhattan, it would be a waste of my time and yours. I just find it funny that so many people (such as TBB in this instance) feel they need to make a big stink about situations in more places than one to draw attention to their cause. There are more ways than creating a mess in the Alliance Announcements to help do what you feel is right.

E: Hal, who is he tying up exactly? He hit 3 nations with IRON already on them and in no offensive wars.
[/quote]

Their are indeed more ways. And of course those ways are also being worked. However, everything must work together like a fine orchestra. Every instrument must play its part. I knew everything that would happen from the moment I started this and I know how it will end. Planet Bob works a certain way. The key is understanding that and then using it to your advantage. Gramlins did not understand how things worked and they did something foolish and despite being given many chances to fix it they did not. Unconditional surrender can not be accepted for any alliance. Take \m/ for example, they do what they do but, when the time comes and they get rolled they should not be given uncondional surrender for peace. This has nothing to with morals it has to do with preserving the security of whatever alliance I happen to be in that loses a war in the future. Its about the security of every alliance on Planet Bob. Anyone who claims they can not see that is a fool or liar. And that is why it will not be allowed.

[Ashoka the Great]

Good luck with this, TBB.

EDIT: If you actually tried recruiting, I think you'd be surprised at your success.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='09 May 2010 - 02:41 AM' timestamp='1273387260' post='2292262']
[color="#0000FF"]....I rejoined the NSO....[/color]
[/quote]

Unsurprising.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Ashoka the Great

[Emperor Brutus]

Great Image
Immoral Fools....

[Dochartaigh]

while a good show of support and all, you would have been far better off simply ghost-joining IRON until the end of the war instead of creating a one-man alliance that could be tech-raided.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='09 May 2010 - 10:13 AM' timestamp='1273364016' post='2291882']
I'm really wanting to join the Gramlins now.
[/quote]

Gah, could this be the first time we have ever agreed on anything? Maybe you arent such a $#(! after all.

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='09 May 2010 - 12:14 PM' timestamp='1273371263' post='2291974']
I am far far far from a moralist.
[/quote]

Obviously.

[AAAAAAAAAAGGGG]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='08 May 2010 - 08:07 PM' timestamp='1273374440' post='2292025']
No. I do not want to waste my time being attacked by nuke rogues or utterly incompetent leaders of failed alliances. Any more questions genius?
[/quote]

You realize if you actually want to damage Gramlins, your tiny little nation isn't going to do anything when the strength of Gramlins lies in their upper tier, so if you're going to subscribe to the "meh, not going to build my nation, people will attack it!" philosophy, you're really not helping IRON fight off Gramlins, and rather, you're just doing a dumb publicity stunt. The upper tier of Gramlins can easily aid the nations you are at war with, and in the end, you'll be reduced to a crater, and Gramlins is left unharmed.

I see your intentions, but this really really wasn't thought out. Of course, I think the community expects no less from you.

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' date='09 May 2010 - 01:37 PM' timestamp='1273426637' post='2292578']
You realize if you actually want to damage Gramlins, your tiny little nation isn't going to do anything when the strength of Gramlins lies in their upper tier, so if you're going to subscribe to the "meh, not going to build my nation, people will attack it!" philosophy, you're really not helping IRON fight off Gramlins, and rather, you're just doing a dumb publicity stunt. The upper tier of Gramlins can easily aid the nations you are at war with, and in the end, you'll be reduced to a crater, and Gramlins is left unharmed.

I see your intentions, but this really really wasn't thought out. Of course, I think the community expects no less from you.
[/quote]

It has been very thought out. And the one thing the community knows is, I am not random nor do I act without reason. By the way, what are doing to save your alliance from one day being forced into unconditional surrender? Or are you all for it? Let me guess you have no enemies and will never lose a war right? Well don't worry about it then. I am sure somebody else will make sure that never happens to you. You can thank me later.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='09 May 2010 - 02:20 PM' timestamp='1273429186' post='2292621']
It has been very thought out. And the one thing the community knows is, I am not random nor do I act without reason. By the way, what are doing to save your alliance from one day being forced into unconditional surrender? Or are you all for it? Let me guess you have no enemies and will never lose a war right? Well don't worry about it then. I am sure somebody else will make sure that never happens to you. You can thank me later.
[/quote]

Umbrella has one of the highest ANSs and one of the best militaries around. They guarantee their security through treaties and force of arms not through meaningless grandstanding like this.