Polaris White Peaced.

[Kewlleo]

This was a trap from the start. The whole intent was to bait the situation long enough to get TOP and IRON out on limb, and fully declared. Now that thats happened, the rest of the wars will get white peace for the most part (except those who are particularly unloved) , so C&G and quite possibly super friends to can focus and take them down. They were only able to do this though, because they knew that TOP would wanna play the chess game behinds the scenes, without really committing. They also figured that by presenting a C&G in conflict and disarray due to endless treaty conflicts, and difference of opinion. That it would probably prove to be to tantalizing a target for them to pass up. So they bit, only to find out that what they bit into, wasn't really what they thought it was at all. Now they are pretty much isolated, most of the help they might get, will either be conflicted by conditions for peace or to tired from fighting already, and they are pretty much hung out to dry.

Were they they wrong for striking, morally speaking yes. Do they deserve to get taken down, probably as much as i hate to say it. They lived by the sword, and shall now die by it.

A game well played, but thats the problem isn't it, its all play now, there is no real meaning and purpose anymore, no valid CB'S or crusades to fight, no good or evil to oppose.

Back and forth it goes one faction takes power from the supposed evil we face, only to be removed by the next when they have allegedly gone to far, and none being better than the one's they purportedly save us from.

Just games, the people playing, and the people playing us all.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Kewlleo

[ROMMELHSQ]

Wrong, TOP and IRON made a huge mistake by declaring on an entire bloc that was uninvolved in the NpO-\m/ war. Preemptive strikes are even worse, specially when the DoW's posted doesnt have ANY mention of NpO, \m/ or any of the other involved alliances in the NpO-\m/ war. TOP and IRON DoW'ed C&G for their own personal motives, hoping to crush C&G since most of their allies were tied up in the NpO-\m/ war.

Our DoW have them mentioned actually.

Also, as I said, NpO side was in the know for days about this.

[raasaa]

@RommelHSQ

<Lando[Athens]> well guys.

<Londo[Athens]> don't dissapoint me.

<Londo[Athens]> when I wake up I expect to see a DoW.

<Londo[Athens]> THE TROLLING WILL CONTINUE

<Londo[Athens]> UNTIL IRON ACTUALLY DOWS

ask and you shall recieve, to further improve community standards, fight trolling, IRON and DAWN hereby declare war against CnG

signed for the Independent Republic of Orange Nations

FinsterBaby, President

DVDCCHN, Secretary of State, IRON Councilor

Delgursh, Deputy Secretary of State, IRON Councilor

Shanenshah, Deputy Secretary of State, IRON Councilor

MCRABT, Minister of Defense, IRON Councilor

Matt Miller, Minister of the Vault, IRON Councilor

Krash, Minister of Labor, IRON Councilor

bay102174, Minister of Tables, IRON Councilor

Sighned for the Democratic Allaince of wise Nations

Booter, Triumvir

Frannie, Triumvir

Shilo, Triumvir

Golan1st, Coordinator of Diplomacy

amad123, Coordinator of War

This reminds me of IRON DoW on Nueva Vida from the noCB war......"we dont like you and we want you dead"

To our opponents: We agree with the New Polar Order's reasons for war against \m/, and we consider ourselves part of that particular side of the war. For our part, however, much our reason to enter this war lies in our desire to defeat those who have shown time and time again, in public and in private, that doing harm to us is high on their agenda---and that, indeed, they would take advantage of any advantageous opportunity to do so. This is a war they have brought upon themselves.

That is the TOP DoW. TOP agrees with NpO's reasons for fighting \m/.....and TOP considers itself to be on the same side of the war.

The remaining lines clearly indicate that TOP is attacking CnG, NOT in defense of Polar, not in defense of ANY ally who is currently involved in the NpO -\m/ war. They have an issue / agenda against CnG......which needed sorting out

[Ivan Moldavi]

To be clear, this occurred while Ivan's connection was out and NSO gov didn't know about the peace until it was posted.

To expand on this a bit, not because I want this to look a certain way or because I am pissed (which I am, just to be clear) but because I want it to be very clear from a factual point of view as to what happened on our end, last night I was approached by pezstar regarding the CSN situation and was told that she could arrange peace because Polar wanted out. I then went to find Grub. While talking to Grub about the issue of them leaving the war I immediately went to our allies in Terra Cotta and Lintwad went to Hydra in order to find out who they were directly engaged with so that we could get them out first. I was very clear that NSO would not leave unless our allies were out before us. All this occurred after the TOP declaration.

My connection last night was a bit iffy for a bit so during my conversation with Grub I lost connection. When I returned the peace thread was already posted on the boards and I was given some assurances that once Polar was out those nine or so alliances that had declared on NSO would immediately, or rather easily and quickly, peace out as well. Unfortunately a good number of those other alliances had not been informed of that situation.

So I spent the next two hours hashing out last minute peace with those we were fighting and still have yet to get confirmation from a couple.

tl;dr version:

NSO was not aware of Polar taking peace prior to TOP attacking.

[KingEsus]

tl;dr version:

NSO was not aware of Polar taking peace prior to TOP attacking.

The big question for me is whether NpO knew that TOP/Iron were due to join (effectively on their side) and then negotiated peace in this knowledge without warning TOP/Iron beforehand.

[CylonNL]

TOP & Co. made a very, very bad opportunistic decision.

And unlike in the banking industry, they do have consequences on planet Bob.

By pre-emptively attacking CnG they stepped into water that might be to deep for them.

If you decide to strike an alliance pre-emptively you take a big risk, and you better live with the consequences.

I hope they give you hell and you put up a good fight.

[bkphysics]

Clearly this is the brain child of ES, Ivan, Dilber, and Mpol all working together to create a giant global war so they can introduce a new alliance with them as the leaders!

Does that sound completely crazy and off base? YEP as does speculation that this was all an elaborate trap.

sheesh

[LoveaLot]

I'm going with what the ODN guy said, TOP got played big time.

[KingEd]

The big question for me is whether NpO knew that TOP/Iron were due to join (effectively on their side) and then negotiated peace in this knowledge without warning TOP/Iron beforehand.

Whether we knew, no. But IRON sending 200+ nations into peace mode overnight hinted at something.

[jstep]

It would be great fun to be on the truman show

[Rebel Virginia]

Neither, really. AlmightyGrub and I agreed to peace about 10 minutes before TOP launched their first attacks. It is simply the most epic coincidence in Bob history.

They knew TOP would be going in. I had discussed the war with him yesterday when he told me that TOP would be entering, and taking out CnG if they were to get involved. Seems Grub decided the war wasn't going the way he wanted, and TOP and IRON were his sacrificial lambs for peace. I'm not at all pleased.

[Mussolandia]

If TOP and IRON (particularly TOP) had not hesitated as much as they did and had rallied their allies from day 1, escalating this war and making it certain Polar's side had numerical advantage, the war would have been won and this situation avoided.

I'm sorry, guys, but it's really hard to support such an indecisive bunch. You were concerned with details when some of us were getting beaten up.

There was no trap. I believe it was a situation of your own making. And even so, I still feel like you guys got screwed over. The objective of this war was never total victory, by any of the leaders on my side, at least. This will be something they will regret for a long time.

[King Louis the II]

To people that just point this as a coincidence, please enlighten me..

If we in Sparta had a really good feeling that Iron would attack our allies at update (you see that we counterattacked them with almost 100 wars), how in the world NpO wouldn't know?

[raasaa]

They knew TOP would be going in. I had discussed the war with him yesterday when he told me that TOP would be entering, and taking out CnG if they were to get involved. Seems Grub decided the war wasn't going the way he wanted, and TOP and IRON were his sacrificial lambs for peace. I'm not at all pleased.

You just said it yourself. Yes, everyone fighting on Polar's side was aware of the fact that IRON and TOP were entering on Polar's side of the war.

None of us, at least those in AZTEC, knew that they were preemptively hitting CnG :S

[The AUT]

They knew TOP would be going in. I had discussed the war with him yesterday when he told me that TOP would be entering, and taking out CnG if they were to get involved. Seems Grub decided the war wasn't going the way he wanted, and TOP and IRON were his sacrificial lambs for peace. I'm not at all pleased.

People still don't realize the New Piss Order arranged this with TOP to attack CnG. And when they do, they all of a sudden pull out. Spineless alliance made by a spineless leader.

Not surprising. You hang onto morality just by the virtue of your nukes. Then spearhead a charge into a war, get your @#$% kicked and then have the audacity to pull out. You lied down in the War of the Coalition. I remember. I saw MK fight its heart out only for you jokes to lie down and just bear the brunt of the attacks.

I thought I knew you, I guess I was wrong. Every one of your allies is unfortunate, and ever one of your enemies is fortunate to be associate in whatever manner to the likes of you.

[Locke]

I wouldn't be surprised either way.

[Holy Ruler]

Its hard to tell now. We have to wait for an official response from TOP and co.

[avernite]

If TOP and IRON (particularly TOP) had not hesitated as much as they did and had rallied their allies from day 1, escalating this war and making it certain Polar's side had numerical advantage, the war would have been won and this situation avoided.

I'm sorry, guys, but it's really hard to support such an indecisive bunch. You were concerned with details when some of us were getting beaten up.

Uhm, well, i think TOP actually was ready to support NpO's side by the time FOK joined at the latest. Before that time there was noone getting beaten up on NpO's side, I think.

As to it being a trap or not: I would say it wasn't a trap, because if NpO, SF and CnG could work together like that to bring down TOP, they could've done it more easily.

[Gruthenia]

I would say it wasn't a trap, because if NpO, SF and CnG could work together like that to bring down TOP, they could've done it more easily.

Frankly, I wish it was a trap because it would mean we could actually work out such a complex plan and execute it so well together.

[DaJoW]

Yeah, we went to \m/ and said "Can we have peace please?" and they just happened to suggest the exact deal we put on the table on day 1, which could always be accepted at any time. That make sense.

For this whole thing to be a trap, we would have had to make a very ugly deal with \m/ (who'd probably be overjoyed at getting to do what we say) and then trick IRON and TOP into declaring. Does either one really sound feasible? Besides, we have no interest in seeing IRON or TOP, and much less MK and GR (and potentially STA) on the other side, take the vast amount of damage this war looks likely to produce. Since both sides seem angry at us we clearly did not work with any of them.

I'm sure Grub will put it better (and certainly with more authority) than this, but basically it was a breakdown in communications, not exactly helped by the sheer number of alliances to contact.

Edited January 29, 2010 by DaJoW

[Zizka]

Yeah, we went to \m/ and said "Can we have peace please?" and they just happened to suggest the exact deal we put on the table on day 1, which could always be accepted at any time. That make sense.

For this whole thing to be a trap, we would have had to make a very ugly deal with \m/ (who'd probably be overjoyed at getting to do what we say) and then trick IRON and TOP into declaring. Does either one really sound feasible? Besides, we have no interest in seeing IRON or TOP, and much less MK and GR (and potentially STA) on the other side, take the vast amount of damage this war looks likely to produce. Since both sides seem angry at us we clearly did not work with any of them.

I'm sure Grub will put it better (and certainly with more authority) than this, but basically it was a breakdown in communications, not exactly helped by the sheer number of alliances to contact.

If all of the above is true, and it truly was a "breakdown in communications" as opposed to a trap, AND you let TOP and IRON take the major fall for the war you started (not to mention if it is true that you "encouraged" them to attack CnG)- well then you are some cold hearted SOBs, and if I would be very worried on your part for gaining a short term tactical draw for a long term strategic (diplomatic) cluster$%&@.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but the implications of the above would seem obvious.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Zizka

[Mussolandia]

Uhm, well, i think TOP actually was ready to support NpO's side by the time FOK joined at the latest. Before that time there was noone getting beaten up on NpO's side, I think.

As to it being a trap or not: I would say it wasn't a trap, because if NpO, SF and CnG could work together like that to bring down TOP, they could've done it more easily.

My impression is that you were taking too long.

The trap theory just doesn't hold. If there was a trap, we fell in it too and I doubt Polar would willingly let us walk into that situation.

[Fantastico]

For anyone reading here who has not seen it, here is AlmightyGrub's reply.

Those on both sides who want to try to make a separate war out of this seem to be on weak footing.

[Drostan]

The true answer is the one that makes the most sense: it wasn't a trap but TOP presented an opporunity and people took it. If TOP hadn't spent the last few months alienating friend and foe alike, this never would/could have happened. Nobody could have predicted TOP would just declare on CnG. You saw the reactions, everyone was surprised.

As is usually the case, the side that gets ganged up on doesn't so much fall into a trap as slowly dig their own grave over the course of months and months of bad FA.

While I am sure it will soothe some egos in TOP, they should be even more ashamed that there was no trap. They set and sprung the trap on themselves.

*shakes head*

Crazy days on Planet Bob.

[Tulafaras]

to be honest when IRON sent their nations into peace mode almost everyone expected them to hit someone.

Personally i was expecting a DoW on us, since they had a direct treaty line to NSO and we had not been countered. When they instead declared on CnG i almost fell out of my chair....

(For the record, i have no inside information, and am not a gov member so i don't know anything beyond what i read on the OWF and see in ingame stats).