Kewlleo

VE are sell outs and suck ups.. that is all.

No not this again. How many times will we have go through these spam fights add nausea, or listen to some blow hard wanna be a crusader touting the justice of his cause, before we all just come to the realization that in fact there is no such thing as cultural or societal ethics in this world anymore, and I do mean that in the broadest sense of the word. And while ethics and values will always exist on a personal level, you will not find them in the culture at large, so you might as well save your breath with railing accusations and rampant appeals "To Our Hearts" because its quite clear we really don't have one, at least not in the combined sense. What we do have is a sense of politics and self interest. Thats our sole cultural heart, and by it we guide our every move. Even those that would make a cry for the "good of our world" do so only in the interest of furthering their own positions, with those they oppose of course defending theirs, and any true merit of the cry falling on deaf ears, because we do not have ears to hear ethically speaking. With this in mind, If you wanna change the world I would suggest you do so by making those involved understand why it is in their best interest to do so, and in the meantime just keep your personal ethics to yourself, which of course is the only place they will find merit.

I'd have to say CmdrChobo A man loved, respected, and even trusted by virtually anyone that knew ever knew him, be they friend or foe.

It is said that the criminal always returns to the scene of the crime, for what its worth welcome back chaotic one.

Well speaking for myself. I don't assume a character for games sake, because I have character already. So I am basically the same here as I am in real life. And therefore the truth is, if I tell you something here, I seriously mean it.

When the same people that you heard whining and complaining for months on end, because there was no war, Are now heard whimpering and crying because theres is no peace.

This war can still go either way, yes TOP and IRONS still in over their heads, but more happened or rather didn't happen (that still probably will) yesterday than anyone here knowns about. Besides if you look at the number of NpO in peace mode, I do believe that they are still considering getting in this thing again as well.

When it looks like it, feels like it, tastes like it, you call it what it is.

This was a trap from the start. The whole intent was to bait the situation long enough to get TOP and IRON out on limb, and fully declared. Now that thats happened, the rest of the wars will get white peace for the most part (except those who are particularly unloved) , so C&G and quite possibly super friends to can focus and take them down. They were only able to do this though, because they knew that TOP would wanna play the chess game behinds the scenes, without really committing. They also figured that by presenting a C&G in conflict and disarray due to endless treaty conflicts, and difference of opinion. That it would probably prove to be to tantalizing a target for them to pass up. So they bit, only to find out that what they bit into, wasn't really what they thought it was at all. Now they are pretty much isolated, most of the help they might get, will either be conflicted by conditions for peace or to tired from fighting already, and they are pretty much hung out to dry. Were they they wrong for striking, morally speaking yes. Do they deserve to get taken down, probably as much as i hate to say it. They lived by the sword, and shall now die by it. A game well played, but thats the problem isn't it, its all play now, there is no real meaning and purpose anymore, no valid CB'S or crusades to fight, no good or evil to oppose. Back and forth it goes one faction takes power from the supposed evil we face, only to be removed by the next when they have allegedly gone to far, and none being better than the one's they purportedly save us from. Just games, the people playing, and the people playing us all.

Well I guess this proves it, you cant have a decent war anymore. Everybody's to busy playing chess and head games. I could go into a lengthly post about how messed up this is in so many many ways. Not the least of which is the utter lack communication regarding it, that has left so many people in harms way, while you proclaim "Um Just Kidding". I said and thought from the start that this had to be the stupidest war, and reason for one I even seen. In one corner we got arrogant brats, whose whole resolve rests of the fact that they are to arrogant to even admit when they were wrong. In the other we got a pompous self righteousness. That while well meant, is so full of it self that it cannot see nor takes any consideration for the people that will be harmed in the process. \M/ I understand, but NpO you actually know better. In the end I'm glad to see that the entire world will not be tearing itself to shreds, for stupidities sake. But as for myself I wouldn't shed a tear if every alliance in the world that just declared, now proceeds to declare on you both.

January of 2006

Nah I think of it more as a "Cat Fight", maximum posturing for minimal fighting. I guess in the end we were dealing with a lot of "MEOWS".

Actually someone told me that Londo was on vacation when this all went down, so I don't know how much he had to do with this at all. And for the record I believe Athens is doing this on MK'S behest, and already had C&G backing before they went in,. else they wouldn't have been stupid enough to start this in the first place. In the end this ain't even about TPF, but rather about C&G and Super friends, wanting a piece of Citadel and IRON.

Oh it is. I just hope it don't turn out to be a cat fight. With a week worth of posturing for two days worth of scrapping.

I couldn't agree more, time to get this going, and put ya money where your mouth is.

Yeah it is. I would ask the question what alliance would leave there front door open like that and expect no one to walk in and take what they want, but I guess we already got the answer. Hey least they consistent about their MO, even if that MO is consistently questionable.

Also considering that I seen your face over In our thread, you might want to reflect upon the conversation at hand my friend.

Actually no sorry, I'm sworn to combat hypocrisy wherever I find it. But since I think I've made my point, you can have your thread back.

Ok I will try. You admit there was an it, and that you were involved in it. Also that you received no repercussions from it. That being said. There is a this, and you are making yourself a part of this, and apparently desire to make accusations in this, like you forgot that there was a that, and that you were part of that. I fail to see how my logic escapes you.

Maybe, Maybe not, but seeing as your names were pretty much kept out of it then, I'm wondering why your putting your name in it now.

Ok bashing Kronos then. And the difference is???

You forgot GOONS, please don't do that.

Last time I checked bandwagons came at the very least after the majority of wars have been declared and initial attacks made. I wonder why it is then that the third person to engage after RLMMOs counter attack that started all this, was in fact a family member. The best strategy for dealing with a nuclear rogue has always been one of isolation and suppression. That is to say engage and anarchy them as quickly as possible, thereby limiting their opportunities and will to declare on further targets, and in effort to drain their available resources as quickly as possible. This then is done by nations who are ready to go and fully equipped to deal with their particular type of threat. This strategy holds true whether were talking one nuclear threat or fourteen of them. This being said, yes Kronos are of a greater NS, and NS average, but with only 32 nations, and with the vast majority of their membership caught off guard by this rapid and untimely attack, they lacked the timely flexibility to deal with the matter as quickly as it needed to be. So our involvement was neither one of "Preying" nor "Ignorance", but rather one of expedient necessity. Oh yeah...and I can certainly assure you that Kronos knows very what it is doing, I mean they certainly knew how to pick good allies now didn't they.

What can I say I just love red It can be construed as such, and RLMMO did both as soon as they could. You use the term CB to loosely here. Not every situation that proceeds from the original event is to be considered part of the original situation, nor can it be. Thats like saying that if a guys arrested for stealing, and is tried and found guilty before a judge who decides that he should get the electric chair for his theft, because someone happen to steal the judges wallet the night before the sentencing, that the defendant is somehow worthy of the sentence imposed. That wouldn't even fly if the guy who stole the judges wallet was the guy who was brought before him. And as far as what "We Had" or "Had Not" to do. Their is such a thing as "Moral Necessity" to respond to heinous acts committed against those we call friends, and its as equally valid as any practical concerns. Please do not try to distort that.

No the concept of a Tech Raid started as a means to rescue money and tech from highly inactive nations that were going to be deleted anyway, in this it made perfect sense, and as such it was a valid concept. As you said the concept has now become so completely distorted as to act as excuse and validation for basically attacking anyone anywhere so long as you think you can get away with it. So in that I do agree with you. That being said though speaking as a almost 4 year veteran of this game, as one who has led both large alliances and small, and as one who has either been in or witnessed every major conflict (and most the minor one's) that this game has ever had. It has never in my experience been acceptable practice nor prudent policy, to respond to a conflict thus far limited to one alliance nation, by launching an alliance wide assault (with no time given for diplomacy to work), with the sole intention of launching as many nukes as possible at as many as you can conceivably attack. This is the mentality and action of a nuclear rogue, not of a responsible alliance trying to defend it self. And its intent and considerations far outweigh any event that had transpired before in the conflict in question. Any alliance leader ordering such an attack knows full well he is signing the death warrants of the nations he is leading, because regardless of the events that have transpired, he is forcing the hand of his adversary and its allies to react in kind. The Family has nothing to gain in this war, no political aims, no economics motives, and certainly no aggressive desire to destroy the RLMMO, aside from the fact that they will not be allowed to perpetuate such atrocities as this on our allies. They made their call, they knew what it would mean, and thats apparently how they wanted it, so that is what they got.