Polaris White Peaced.

[savethecheerleader]

One thing I think this discussion is missing is the curious timing of TOP and IRON's DoW's. It was clear that they could enter the war via treaties several days before they posted their preemptive DoW. Why did they wait so long? Given the following (correct the assumptions I've made if they are not true), it seems as though none of this conspiracy theory stuff would have ever popped up if they had declares even one day prior:

1. Grub made surrender terms clear from the very beginning, and made it known that they could be accepted whenever.

2. \m/, for whatever reason, decided to wait until one full round of wars was complete before they would accept the terms. Grub was not aware of this, but the \m/ front was going to end on the night that it did regardless of other goings on in the war.

3. TOP and co. were planning on hitting CnG, a fact that I assume Grub and the rest of the coalition leaders were aware of. The orange alliances did not act immediately for some reason or another, which lead to their declaration coinciding almost exactly with a peace agreement that couldn't have really been anticipated at a given time.

So this leaves the question- why did the orange alliances wait so long? If it was at Grub's urging, this indeed suggests a setup. Otherwise, simply a coincidence of epic proportions. This by no means absolves Grub of failing to inform TOP and IRON of the peace deal as it was being finalized, but I think it can put to rest the issue of a setup.

[Baldr]

[quote name='Rey the Great' date='01 February 2010 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1265063424' post='2151243']
I'm sorry, but I haven't seen much hostility from CnG towards TOP. Some low members, but I've never seen a gov member show hostility to TOP.
[/quote]

[url="http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?searchstring=Declaring_Alliance%2CReceiving_Alliance&search=The%20Order%20Of%20The%20Paradox&anyallexact=exact"]...Linky...[/url]

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='Fantastico' date='01 February 2010 - 07:45 PM' timestamp='1265071517' post='2151557']
04:55:19 <The_Chief>: hey archon
04:55:27 <The_Chief>: are you telling us to peace out asap or what

Unless you were able to read his mind and his sense of urgency during those 30 seconds, something is still missing.
[/quote]

I'm astute, what can I say?

[Yggdrazil]

The salient point is that Almighty grub did not inform a treaty partner that Peace was at hand. To do so might have prevented the Top/Iron strike.Given NSO was a treaty partner of Iron. NSO who had come to NpO's defense, following their treaty obligation which NpO failed to do.Fark would not let NSO Peace out.Everyone knows this,and is ignored as other abuses are ignored.Pragmatism at its worse.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Yggdrazil

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='savethecheerleader' date='02 February 2010 - 12:44 PM' timestamp='1265078650' post='2151814']
One thing I think this discussion is missing is the curious timing of TOP and IRON's DoW's. It was clear that they could enter the war via treaties several days before they posted their preemptive DoW.
[/quote]
What treaties could they have used?

[Chalaskan]

[quote name='Commisar Gaunt' date='01 February 2010 - 02:18 PM' timestamp='1265066294' post='2151335']
It's almost as if TOP and co weren't the ones who declared on C&G!
[/quote]

It's almost as if someone knew they were going to hit C&G, and rather then tell them it was de escalating and he was going to accept white peace threw them to the wolves...

[Fantastico]

For posterity's sake:

[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=79847"]The rest of the story.[/url]

[Tick1]

I think I'll keep my nose out of this section. Nice try though guy, if you really don't understand what was going on then you probably wont ever know. Also Grub I'll keep your secret out of here.

[Balkan Banania]

[quote name='Fantastico' date='02 February 2010 - 08:12 AM' timestamp='1265091165' post='2152448']
For posterity's sake:

[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=79847"]The rest of the story.[/url]
[/quote]
I think that maybe you should reconsider

[zzzptm]

Remember the terrible timing with the 57th Overlanders and Browncoats thing?

This is that, but on a Great War scale. It wasn't a trap, just the worst communications we've seen since the 57th Overlanders-Browncoats War.

TOP and IRON made a hasty move to smite CnG and had absolutely no clue that the \m/ thing had been settled so that war wouldn't escalate. TOP and IRON showed their true colors and now we have this war. When NpO did not object to the war, it did not mean they approved of it. Heck, it's quite possible that NpO passed the info along to its MoADP partner... because they're supposed to share information...

But whatever. I wasn't in all the IRC channels. TOP made its logdump. That's part of the story. If it was a setup, more logs would have come out from a party disgusted by the whole thing. Wait a week... if those logs don't materialize, it wasn't a setup... just some overeager combatants that didn't do enough due diligence in preparing for war.

[Saber]

[quote name='zzzptm' date='06 February 2010 - 04:54 PM' timestamp='1265471652' post='2164567']
Remember the terrible timing with the 57th Overlanders and Browncoats thing?

This is that, but on a Great War scale. It wasn't a trap, just the worst communications we've seen since the 57th Overlanders-Browncoats War.

TOP and IRON made a hasty move to smite CnG and had absolutely no clue that the \m/ thing had been settled so that war wouldn't escalate. TOP and IRON showed their true colors and now we have this war. When NpO did not object to the war, it did not mean they approved of it. Heck, it's quite possible that NpO passed the info along to its MoADP partner... because they're supposed to share information...

But whatever. I wasn't in all the IRC channels. TOP made its logdump. That's part of the story. If it was a setup, more logs would have come out from a party disgusted by the whole thing. Wait a week... if those logs don't materialize, it wasn't a setup... just some overeager combatants that didn't do enough due diligence in preparing for war.
[/quote]
From what I hear, our logs are extensive and interesting. I haven't seen them though.

Also I am seriously tired of people not bothering to read up and then making "well informed posts" like you did. Gruub knew and approved of it. He admitted as much. Also he didn't inform his allies (also OWF knowledge).

Edited February 6, 2010 by Saber

[Prime minister Johns]

I love how a peace offer with absolutely no strings attached has been spun into something evil and sinister when the truth could not possibly be further removed from this.

[Angrator]

I wish I knew the answer to the OPs question.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

All i know is that the Polaris peace offer on the table since day one of the \m/-Polaris war was a good thing, and somehow it has led to this.. abomination of a war.

[Caliph]

[quote name='thaone' date='29 January 2010 - 11:08 AM' timestamp='1264792112' post='2141879']
All alliances involved in the fight got pretty hurt during the laying of the trap. I at least worked as hard as I could to let FOK do as much damage to our enemies as possible,

What does smell however is the rush in which the peace terms got signed. \M/ had the same terms for all this time and just before this update out of the blue decided they would sign them, they didn't even take the time to talk to any of the alliances on their side except Poison Clan. This is either incompetence or intent, you may decide.
[/quote]
I'm going to respond to this.

The only alliances we were obligated to inform was Poison Clan.
Everyone else, and I do mean everyone, who came in to the war on "our" side said from the beginning, in their DOW's, they were not enterring for \m/.

So why would we go out of our way to contact alliances who state they hate us who enterred a war, but not for us?

The only ones we owed anything to were Poison Clan who had our backs from day 1. FOK!, just by getting involved as soon as they did, [i]might[/i] have warranted a discussion, but FOK! stated, clear as day in their DOW, they were not enterring for \m/, nor did they give a lick about us.

So why would \m/, a universally hated alliance who most the member on our own side hated, go out of our way to contact a bunch of alliances who hate us just to say "hey we are peacing out"? That war was never about you, it was about us. We reached an agreement with Polar, and Poison Clan agreed to it, so then we had peace.

\m/ had no obligations to anyone else.

Edit:

And just to clarify, there was no conspiracy from \m/ regarding this war. It was just a coincidence.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Caliph

[Cormalek]

Hehehe.

[i]Clearly,[/i] the antipathy towards \m/ is uncalled for.

I dunno bout Polaris, but \m/ simply doesn't seem competent enough to partake in a scheme like this.

Caliph - those alliances might not [i]like[/i] you, but they were[i] helping[/i] you. The least you could do was to [b]tell[/b] them. You claim that you don't bother to talk to alliances who join the war thus helping you (if unvoluntarily), because they hate you guys. Did you ever stop to think that it's because of [i]this sort of behaviour[/i], why nobody likes you?

Plus - geez, stop your whining. You have \m/ in your name! Stop embarrassing the metal-heads of our globe! You're like that 14 years old that comes into mosh-pit and starts hitting people in the balls, and crying when someone gives him a soccer-punch. Suck it up

[King Louis the II]

[img]http://img.fsgatelands.com/images/bl107vb1u8p6ixl3qe.jpg[/img]

Edited February 10, 2010 by King Louis the II