avernite Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 If it was "a trap" then TOP and Co. would be crying their hearts out on the forums. If anything the prior NpO war was just a launching pad that TOP wanted to attack C&G. Since TOP, for the most part hasn't been playing the bleeding heart it's pretty safe to assume that this wasn't a set up. Honestly, if it WAS a trap we would be too busy gaping in disbelief to have bleeding hearts. Plus we don't want people to feel sorry for us, we actually want to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuotingTheCrow Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Looked like a set up imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Plus we don't want people to feel sorry for us, we actually want to win. If that's the case I still don't understand why you declared on all of C&G. By attacking the entire bloc you activated half the MDPs on the planet, which certainly doesn't seem like the path to victory to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuotingTheCrow Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) If that's the case I still don't understand why you declared on all of C&G. By attacking the entire bloc you activated half the MDPs on the planet, which certainly doesn't seem like the path to victory to me. Maybe it's a trap as well, or they just really really wanted a war. Edited January 30, 2010 by QuotingTheCrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnCapistan Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Voted Trap because that is what I want it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned-You Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 No it wasn't a trap, it was just TOP & IRON going insane and \m/ declaring white-peace the same night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 No it wasn't a trap, it was just TOP & IRON going insane and \m/ declaring white-peace the same night. With both Grub and CandG knowing they will go in, while making one of the quickest done peace deals in history. Nice play, nice play,....I do not have a heart and that is well known but even I think that is quite low. But whatev man, really, its over now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 With both Grub and CandG knowing they will go in, while making one of the quickest done peace deals in history. Nice play, nice play,....I do not have a heart and that is well known but even I think that is quite low. But whatev man, really, its over now. Branimir, first off it wasn't the quickest peace deal in history, truth is \m/ government had been speaking with Grub daily arguing over wording. I can't testify what Grub knew of TOP and Iron plans as I don't know, what I do know is Grub left the white peace terms on the table to be accepted at any time. When \m/ rolled in and said deal, peace! Grub who was fighting a war of morals and community standards really had no choice but to accept. No grand plan. As I said from the onset, the \m/- NpO was a mexican standoff, we both lost, much to my pleasure as it turns out, most of the world is fixing to burn also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) MM, do not waste my time. I like you, but do not waste my time. I do not like that. What one normal alliance leader does in a situation in which Grub was, when approached by metal alliance that they accept the terms all of the !@#$@#$ sudden, is to say: Hey, that is grand, now let us make a cease fire while I run this with the rest of the gang (like, you know TOP and IRON which he knew were going in to support his $@!, so to tell them, the reason why they are entering is over). That is what one normal leader without any innuendos do, in that situation. Stop it. Argue with some other dumb smuck, not me. Its not like there is this magical medium for communication where one can chat in real time and everybody is on so nothing takes too much time to inform. Wait,....there is Edited January 30, 2010 by Branimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balkan Banania Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Let’s see, Grub was so eager to accept peace that he did it without prior notification of one of his closest allies NSO, maybe because then the words would reach IRON, maybe not. Personally I don’t think the war stressed Polaris so much that he couldn’t wait a day or even some hours. Also it is rather interesting that Grub didn't make an official statement about the peace agreement as it was announced rather vaguely via some IRC logs without signatures or anything, allowing for a gray period of time and that the peace was agreed almost the time TOP / IRON declared. Of course these are only circumstantial evidences so obviously everybody can decide for himself. Personally I am disappointed of Polaris either way but I don’t matter. They have decided their future, sacrificing some alliances in the way, but mehh...at least they have their thirty pieces of silver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godwin Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Eh, I'm more of the opinion that it was just an awesome coincidence. I mean, NpO and \m/ both dropping out of war immediately prior to the whole thing exploding and getting most of the 'verse involved isn't something that possibly could have been planned... It just turned out in such a way that it makes the current massive war effectively being fought over absolutely nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldr Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Eh, I'm more of the opinion that it was just an awesome coincidence. I mean, NpO and \m/ both dropping out of war immediately prior to the whole thing exploding and getting most of the 'verse involved isn't something that possibly could have been planned... It just turned out in such a way that it makes the current massive war effectively being fought over absolutely nothing. NpO and \m/ didn't drop out "immediately prior". They dropped out 45 minutes after TOP posted the DOW. I certainly don't think that NpO attacked \m/ with the intention of setting some trap for TOP. But the peace agreement timing sure looks odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teriethien Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Let’s see, Grub was so eager to accept peace that he did it without prior notification of one of his closest allies NSO, maybe because then the words would reach IRON, maybe not. Personally I don’t think the war stressed Polaris so much that he couldn’t wait a day or even some hours. Also it is rather interesting that Grub didn't make an official statement about the peace agreement as it was announced rather vaguely via some IRC logs without signatures or anything, allowing for a gray period of time and that the peace was agreed almost the time TOP / IRON declared. Of course these are only circumstantial evidences so obviously everybody can decide for himself. Personally I am disappointed of Polaris either way but I don’t matter. They have decided their future, sacrificing some alliances in the way, but mehh...at least they have their thirty pieces of silver The problem with this theory is that it wasn't Grub who accepted peace, but rather \m/ that accepted Polar's terms. What do you want Grub to do, go back on his word while leading a moral crusade? NpO: Say this and you'll have peace. \m/: OK 'this'. NpO: No wait let us kill you some more! That'd go down well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldr Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 The problem with this theory is that it wasn't Grub who accepted peace, but rather \m/ that accepted Polar's terms. What do you want Grub to do, go back on his word while leading a moral crusade? NpO: Say this and you'll have peace. \m/: OK 'this'. NpO: No wait let us kill you some more! That'd go down well. He could, of course, say "Lets agree to a cease fire, and we'll work out the details. I have some folks I need to talk to". That would be a fairly normal way of handling things, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teriethien Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 He could, of course, say "Lets agree to a cease fire, and we'll work out the details. I have some folks I need to talk to". That would be a fairly normal way of handling things, I believe. What details? Peace was offered and accepted, there was no more details to work out. Besides TOP and IRON have already declared on CnG by then, I fail to see how calling it a ceasefire changes anything as far as their present situation is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 (edited) The problem with this theory is that it wasn't Grub who accepted peace, but rather \m/ that accepted Polar's terms No, really, it isn't. No problem at all. Though I always enjoyed semantical words plays, on a childish level. They have certain, innocent naivety to it. What details? You just asking that, is making it that much more hilariously bad. Its all explained to you, but, if you do not get it then you do not get it. NpO and \m/ didn't drop out "immediately prior". They dropped out 45 minutes after TOP posted the DOW. Of course, peace it self is presumably made before the time of actual posting of it. *hint* *hint* But you are right. They did both knew before the time of making this peace irc logs deal, that TOP and IRON are gonna DoW, making it sort of, after. Edited January 31, 2010 by Branimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teriethien Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 No, really, it isn't. No problem at all. Though I always enjoyed semantical words plays, on a childish level. They have certain, innocent naivety to it. If you made an offer to someone and they accept it, you don't get to choose to accept or reject their acceptance - you're obliged to fulfil your end of the offer immediately. By making the initial offer, and leaving it on the table for \m/ to take, Polaris pledged to end the war as soon as \m/ accepted her terms. It was not an invitation for \m/ to come negotiate a peace settlement, it was an unilateral offer of peace if \m/ were to agree to Grub's conditions. The timing of the peace was therefore entirely \m/'s choice of whether and when to accept the offer. To claim that Grub accepted is to falsely imply that Grub had a choice where none existed as long as Grub was to remain true to his words. It's an important distinction that gets glossed over when people want to twist the situation to suit their propaganda needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 (edited) If you made an offer to someone and they accept it, you don't get to choose to accept or reject their acceptance Yes you do. It would be wicked, but you can reject it. I am though, not talking about rejection, but a temporary hold on, I dunno what is confusing you. It's an important distinction that gets glossed over when people want to twist the situation to suit their propaganda needs. There is a reason for that, and it is not of the kind you posted- it is overlooked, as it is irrelevant. Grub had all the reasons to pause for a short period, after metal alliance accepted the deal all the sudden after days of negotiation, and after he covered all the bases that were in play, and of which he knew, on his side which was his responsibility as the primary antagonist-- shake hands and call it quits. Now, in best case scenario-- Grub is naive and silly and got played like a child. NSO, TOP, IRON et all, will feel it. Or, what seems likely-- he wasn't. Choose. Edited January 31, 2010 by Branimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teriethien Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 (edited) Yes you do. It would be wicked, but you can reject it. Maybe you can. But it's precisely why Polar can't and won't. Grub had all the reasons to pause for a short period, after metal alliance accepted the deal all the sudden after days of negotiation, and after he covered all the bases that were in play, and of which he knew, on his side which was his responsibility as the primary antagonist-- shake hands and call it quits. What, in practical terms, (does compromising by going back on our word in my view, but I accept that you'll think it's little details not worth staying true to) prolonging the war for a 'short period' accomplish? I agree that we should have made sure everyone on our side know first before the announcement was posted. But beyond that, how exactly does it help anyone? TOP and IRON would still be at war with CnG whether Polar is at peace with PC and \m/ or not. Peace on the other fronts of the war still need to be resolved by the alliances actually on those fronts. The only way this would have mattered would be if TOP and IRON was planning to post their declaration after \m/ communicated its desire to end this war. In that case a notification that the war have ended at the core could/might halt their entry. But since the two events occurred at roughly the same time, whether the peace declaration was posted 45 minutes later or 2 days later doesn't change the fact that TOP/IRON are now at war, while \m/ have accepted to end the war with Polar. Not unless, again, Polaris was to go back on her word. In short you're arguing about something that have absolutely zero bearing on the actual outcomes of Polar and \m/ reaching peace. Edited January 31, 2010 by Teriethien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 (edited) Maybe you can. But it's precisely why Polar can't and won't. I wasnt talking about rejecting. You cant read, its in extension of that? It is you who have interjected that in this convo, hanging on to that as you dont have nothing. You are wasting my time. I told MM what I think about ppl wasting my time. Dont do it. But beyond that, how exactly does it help anyone? I dunno, maybe TOP and IRON do not !@#$@#$ declare in your support once you let them know the thing is over. Jeebus,...you cant be this slow can you? There was no effort in this direction, malicious intend from Grub or just a stupid move. And now people are going to go down, namely, your direct ally as well-- NSO. In short you're arguing about something that have absolutely zero bearing on the actual outcomes of Polar and \m/ reaching peace. Just saying that, doesn't make it so. You have nothing and have just wasted my time. You made a horrible stand for you alliance here, but I do not blame you. Its not up to you to explain your actions. You are a grunt, a loyal member, you are doing the best you can. I saw Grub browsing, he said nothing. Made me sad, I hoped he had something good to respond with. Fallow his lead, then. Edited January 31, 2010 by Branimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yggdrazil Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 My question to NpO is why Almighty Grub could not have told \m/ that the conflict had escalated beyond just their two alliances and he needed time to communicate with those friends who had joined in to help? This is in no way a breaking of his word but taking care of friends.You betrayed everyone that DOWed in your defense.Fark never gave NSO peace and they are a treaty partner. View PostTheNeverender, on 29 January 2010 - 12:10 AM, said: To \m/, PC, and FOK... Thank you. I hope I can one day repay the faith you have shown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoiL Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Stings a bit [img]http://www.sherv.net/screens/heartbroken-names.gif[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablo Monkey Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 The original peace offer was to \m/ and \m/ only, why FOK and PC was included makes no sense. If grub did not do it on purpose then he should be held accountable for his actions that put his allies in jeopardy. Oh and since FARK never agreed to peace with the NSO, this is still the same war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='Baldr' date='30 January 2010 - 06:37 PM' timestamp='1264894679' post='2145867'] NpO and \m/ didn't drop out "immediately prior". They dropped out 45 minutes after TOP posted the DOW. I certainly don't think that NpO attacked \m/ with the intention of setting some trap for TOP. But the peace agreement timing sure looks odd. [/quote] In all honesty, Chief and Grub came to an agreement to end the war before TOP even declared their war on C&G. What took us so long to actually make the announcement was getting Poison Clan and FOK's approval and thus their signatures. If they had said no to the peace deal, we'd still be fighting Polar because \m/ had no intention of leaving Poison Clan behind and I know Poison Clan didn't want to do that to FOK either. It really was an amazing coincidence, one I'm not going to even deny for a second that I find highly amusing, absolutely amazing and something I'm glad happened in the manner it did. But that's all it was; a coincidence. This front of the war was over before Archon or anyone else said or did anything in regards to the conflict. Whatever the reasoning for NpO was, devious or not, I do not know nor do I care. And to be honest it doesn't really matter either. Even if we were still at war with the NpO, TOP/IRON declaring war on C&G "pre-emptively" was foolhardy, stupid and just opened the door to more than they bargained for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneprice Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 The whole thing is confusing. It may have been a trap it may not have been. While NPO and GGA are not exactly friends, this is not something I could imagine AlmightyGrub doing. Therefore, for the moment, I will give him the benefit of the doubt until someone proves otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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