Fantastico

o/ Destructor Fleets and the DAAN

Congrats on the elections!

Congrats on the elections and best wishes!

Congrats on the 6 months milestone and best wishes for the future!

Congrats on the elections!

[quote name='Delta1212' date='28 February 2010 - 03:19 AM' timestamp='1267348998' post='2208050'] My other option would be to sit here and listen to people claiming that they are as bad or worse than the Hegemony, despite the fact that this is objectively false. If people don't want to invite period relativism then they need to stop invoking it. [/quote] Right you are that this is not the same as the old hegemony's way. But it's also not a debate to dismiss since what we have here are reduced degrees of a common temperament. That makes this something much more challenging to confront since it is easier for most to speak from moods rather than principles.

[quote name='Lord GVChamp' date='28 February 2010 - 03:11 AM' timestamp='1267348524' post='2208044'] Respectfully state your objections and develop your alliances to oppose what you perceive as injustice. If you find yourself on the winning side of the war, though, don't impose brutal reps on them, because frankly they don't deserve it. Here were NPO "terms" to Legion at one point: Legion admits wrongdoing Legion submits to authority of an NPO viceroy Legion relocates to Grey team (none) Legion agrees to monthly payments in amounts to be determined (apparently 300 million PER WEEK according to Zhadum's post) Legion shall support Valhalla candidates on the Purple Senate. You know you're boned when the terms are "you are our personal bank forever." And then all your treaties are suspended. Want to join a different alliance? Sorry, you get ZI'd for that. Stuff like this has left a rather bitter taste in my mouth which I think is rather justified, but I don't consider Sparta to be on anywhere NEAR the plane that NPO used to be, and I think it's important to keep that in mind before jumping on the "Hegemony" bandwagon. [/quote] Understand and agreed that our past is awful and we need to learn from it and move far beyond it. Where I disagree with these terms in light of this past is on several levels: 1. Asking for less reps when no reps at all are justified is still not right 2. Some of those asking for reps, as well as those encouraging them, represent the old hegemony way of thinking 3. Finally, I also recall that the old hegemony started in steps, each set of surrender terms being more severe than the previous, This is why my volume is so high, when you set down the wrong path, it does not matter how far you have traveled, you are still going the wrong direction.

[quote name='Delta1212' date='28 February 2010 - 03:11 AM' timestamp='1267348486' post='2208042'] I didn't take reps. I'm not really interested in people's opinion of them. I do take issue with the constant cries that reps are the worst thing ever because it trivializes all of the considerably worse crap that is actually contained in "ever." [/quote] Right-o and I happily tipped my hat to you and the RIA for taking the high road some pages back. What I find objectionable is your subtle way of suggesting the others receiving reps here might be justified based on some dark ages we want to escape. I do not call that your intent, especially since I applaud the RIA, but dredging up the past here for comparison has that effect.

[quote name='Lord GVChamp' date='28 February 2010 - 02:53 AM' timestamp='1267347391' post='2208029'] This, most definitely this. The two eras of Planet Bob are just not the same. [/quote] I'll reply "but no, [i]not this[/i]." I believe most of us complaining do have memories of the old hegemony and that is precisely why we are whining about these terms for TOOL. Here is a question for you: Now, since you also stated earlier that you find these terms objectionable, what can we do about it? Do we just respectfully state our objections and that's it? Are these terms okay since they are not "as bad" as what we fought against? Also, I see Delta has another big answer with more heavy reference to the past, is that really what these terms are, a moral comeuppance, some fuzzy relativistic math? Here we post every bad thing the old hegemony did to justify these terms?

Cool beans.

Wow, thanks for one of the first honest answers I've read in a while. Seriously, thanks, I was expecting you to lash out at me. As for the meat of your answer, I think I have a problem with the thing about completely deserving it. Sure, I'd rather drink a bucket of spit than return to the old hegemony, but I still do not paint all alliances who were under its umbrella with the same brush. There are some good alliances in the old hegemony who do want to move forward just as there are some alliances in the new hegemony who are just as bad as the old dirtbags. I still hold trust the MK will be able to discern the difference soon, for I still love much about the MK and hate seeing it repeat the old hegemonic mistakes of seeing everything in black and white. edit: I typed a more colorful word for dirtbags and the filter changed it to "my idols" Evil filter is evil.

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='28 February 2010 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1267343878' post='2207965'] Rofl, are you kidding? GOD was one of the few that remained unaligned to Q until we allied Sparta - and they promptly dropped out. You [i]must[/i] be high. [/quote] ROFL indeed. I've read more than the revisionist histories of Planet Bob that seem to be so popular today. Seeing you pile on TOOL now and here in your grand way is just too much.

How did Xiphosis become today's voice of karmic justice for anyone, let alone TOOL? I mean, seriously? GOD was just as much an active part of the old hegemony as TOOL or even Sparta was. I want my money back!

Since you also were a member of the old hegemony, what opinions do you hold today that are different from the past? Also, nice blog ya got here.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='28 February 2010 - 12:31 AM' timestamp='1267338902' post='2207793'] Come to think of it, should you find yourself in a similar situation again, neither will you. [/quote] Thanks for reminding me why I have never fully appreciated the angst in these halls over removing leaders from government as a surrender term. Now, personally, I would not request such a thing since I believe leaving bad leaders in power is a much more damaging punishment to their alliances than any amount of cash or tech reparations. Back on topic, o/ peace.

[quote name='Uralica' date='28 February 2010 - 12:02 AM' timestamp='1267337157' post='2207728'] Don't forget VE. I heard nothing but respect for them from our camp during wartime. And to be fair, Sparta was pretty cool about the whole thing too. [/quote] Oops, I missed them since they were not listed in the reps box. A tip of the hat to the Viridian Entente too. Sparta may be pretty cool, but no one deserves any reps in this war. Any reason for this war was resolved weeks ago. Every day this war dragged on beyond the time peace was accepted by NpO, \m/ and PC has been more about punishment for some mixed up idea of preemption or delayed justice than anything at all relating to the present. The cries for more and more reps from those still kept in the war to grind them down underscores this reality. Good luck to TOOL on rebuilding, too.

Great to see this. White peace is by far the best answer to this distorted war. Congrats and may all parties here enjoy a speedy recovery.

A tip of the hat to RIA, LOUD and LoSS.

I saw a new movie last night. It had been a while since we have been able to get out, especially with the war going on. The film moved me like movies moved me when I was a child. But it really was not a good movie at all, just a few scenes had that special touch of movie magic. You know the kind, where a tear drips without you realizing it or you choke up a bit and feel silly about it... and then just sit back and revel in and savor the moment. We returned from the theater and listened to some music. A song moved both us like I do not remember being moved since I was a child. As we danced past the green room, I saw all of the FA work piling up, diplomats to vet, embassies to break ground on, new alliances to visit. I turned to the First Lady and we hit shuffle on the presidential ipod. Tomorrow is another day.

Good luck to the NSO and to LintWad. You have some big shoes to fill. [img]http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/4140/adidasstarwarsshoes9.jpg[/img]

Glad to see some peace here. Also, pleasantly surprised by the terms. Good luck to all in rebuilding.

20,000 tech from 75 nations, a great many of which are in pretty bad shape, is a lot to deliver in 120 days. Good luck on that and congrats on the peace.

Every political ideology and discussion in this game is from the real world. If your problem is with objectivism, just say so, and why... if you can. As for me, I am not an objectivist as I understand it in popular use for reasons I'd enjoy sharing if any debate appears here, unless you'd prefer we follow your lead and call it retarded without explanation.

[quote name='Floatsam' date='26 February 2010 - 05:11 AM' timestamp='1267182901' post='2204775'] Today, OOC/IC are often mocked as excuses and players often have no regard for the difference at all. Because we have now mostly eliminated the distinction between OOC and IC, the nature of CN has moved form more or less a role playing community to more of a 'humans playing a fictional game' sort of environment. As a result of this change, alliances now have less context on which to base their politics, and political decisions become more random as CN members have less and less reason to take the game seriously. That is where we find ourselves today, as members of an online game, not a role-playing community where actions are held to have real consequences in the interests of preserving the role playing standards. And as a result, people have less of a reason to join or stay in the game, because it is now a collection of people organized into communities which compete against each other, rather than (IC) a totally separate universe with its own rules and its own standards. Well, that's how I see it, anyway. [/quote] I think you hit the nail on the head. This also is how I see the importance of the OP's plea. For those who see this as a request for a UN, the question is how to make a better CN, not simply or even necessarily a better "Planet Bob."