Drostan

I didn't even know you had gone, but then again, I haven't exactly been mr. activity lately...

Personally I think the world is bored to death with morality. I like the Gremlins better and so I fully support them in offering, breaking, reneging, and betraying whatever terms they feel like towards IRON. Make it hurt, Grems.

Well with Tulak gone, Sparta's going to get a new reputation for being sobre. My how times do change. I'm sure Tulak will land on his feet. I never got a chance to know Olaf that well as he was just beginning to work his way up the ranks while I was there, but he always seemed like a go-getter. And now he's King. Congrats. Sane and sobre kings of Sparta. *shakes head* It's a brave new world. Who hasn't thought about joining MK? It's just too trendy for me. But I dig that mushroom-shaped thing they do.

I'm going to vote for ES. False modesty in the public sphere only makes the ego sting more in private. In a surprising move I am also going to second the nomination of the entirety of MK. Even in my darkest days of boredom, I simply couldn't join them because their ranks were already too swollen with ego, and I just couldn't stand not getting the attention I so richly deserve. I would also say that TOP and Argent rank among the most arrogant in that smug "we stick to our own" sense that has made them so popular in recent times. Anyway, counting the egos on Planet Bob is like counting the grains of sand in their respective... beaches? heh.

Nobody trains rogues like Kronos. Enjoy the Kronos craftsmanship, boys! [img]http://mattbuck.irongalaxy.com/neveron/snapshots/nuke.JPG[/img]

I hope you will keep fighting because I quite agree that the world is better off if TOP spends a great deal more of its war chests. The last thing I want to see is TOP in a position to wage war again any time soon, as I honestly believe they've admitted no faults and learned nothing. It sucks for CnG, but it will make the world a much better place if the big alliances keep hurting one another. o/ destruction of massive war chests and tech advantages from the Hegemony period.

I find this OP amusing because honestly, it may have had some truth nearly a year ago but what sense does it make now? Who did Sparta abandon this war? How did they switch sides? Sparta was pretty openly hostile with TOP while Karma was still going on. I personally tried to improve diplomatic relations but TOP honestly had no interest in keeping discussion alive. I was told by several members of TOP and Argent while acting as a Spartan diplomat that those alliances had little interest in preserving any communication. If anyone was poised to give Sparta a beat-down, it is the very alliances now suffering at the hands of CnG and SF. You clearly have a desire to see everyone who associated with the old Hegemony punished for wrongs years old. But honestly, when was the last time Sparta took huge amounts of reps prior to this war. Sparta took nothing from Karma. You've just got a bone to pick because they haven't made any spectacular mis-step lately like most alliances. Everyone else is still taking cheap shots saying that Sparta is not a threat or what have you, all the while Sparta's greatest weapon is the constant under-estimation of their alliance. Sparta didn't do too badly overall this time in war. But it's much easier to just slander people you don't like than to try to confront them over real issues. Karma may have been messy for Sparta (and a hell of a lot of others), but their position has been fairly clear-cut since then if you even bothered to check. Anyone who was surprised by Sparta's actions in this war honestly has no grasp of their politics whatsoever. [ooc]For the record, Sparta was never based on the film 300 so much as people are so ill-educated that that is the only thing they can think of when confronted with the word Sparta. That is hardly the fault of the alliance and more a reflection of your shallow education and knee-jerk consciousness. Many Spartans past and present like myself hated that particular film and shunned all comparisons with it.[/ooc] EDIT: Rather than wade through all the conspiracies and speculation about how TOP ended up at the losing end of a war, I will simplify it very handily. TOP ended up in a losing war because many people did not like them. This is how the NPO ended up on the wrong end of a beat down too. You could say a lot more, but that is ultimately why it happened. TOP will try to blame everyone else, but honestly, their FA sucked since Karma and this is what happens. That's why FA is important, because without it, you find yourself with few friends. Given some of the high-profile cancellations that would have been inconceivable only a few months ago, I think TOP must have worked pretty hard to alienate so many old friends. Sadly, I doubt they'll be able to face this truth and will instead only steel themselves with the promise of revenge as they seek to build a new set of allies that can put them on the right side of a beat down again. Prove me wrong, TOP.

This is an announcement that I am sorry to see. I know how you feel because I've often felt that way myself. For now I am content to simply war as my masters tell me though. Good luck. If you do reroll, let me know.

I don't even really care WHY this happened, I am just glad that it did. Here's to hoping something more amusingly stupid comes of this situation. *awaits declaration on NPO* Would those who are protecting NPO have to defend them if someone declared on them over this? If not because this is an act of war thus violating terms, that's awesome, and can't they resume the war against Pacifica for violating terms? It's awesome when you're put in a position that requires you violate your terms one way or another. MOAR WAR PRZ.

Have fun guys. From my brief experience, TFD has many good fighters, and this front should be pretty exciting for both parties.

When you have grabbed a wolf by the ears, it is unwise to let them go. If TOP planned to attack a CnG ally and then get countered, you can't call pre-emptively attacking CnG directly a pre-emptive defensive move at all can you? In fact, as Archon has pointed out, you can only call it was it is: aggressively attacking CnG. We can sit around debating the what if TOP/IRON had attacked x, would MK have come in? But that doesn't matter, because TOP/IRON didn't attack x, they attacked people who were not involved yet at all. If TOP/IRON had attacked x (CnG ally), and this war had kicked off, that'd be a whole different kettle of fish. TOP/IRON's pro-active declaration on CnG at large was a statement. That statement read: this world isn't big enough for the both of us and the time has come to end you. Thankfully, their FA bungled as per usual, and the war didn't turn into the curb stomp they had hoped. Now you see all this crap about white peace that is frankly abusrd and totally inappropriate. If some douchebag punches me in the face a few times for no reason, I am hardly obligated to forgive him for it. In fact, I might just be an idiot for doing so. TOP had the war chest and tech advantage going in, and so peacing them out now would only favour their cause as they will be in a far better position to rebuild than most of CnG. Of course, because of this fact, a longer war also favours them in that sense. But the difference is that if CnG wants to hold their feet to the flames, they can hurt TOP more but will have to sacrifice themselves to do so. That way, nobody wins and this war will have been totally harmful for both parties. Such is the nature of this war. I love seeing the un-concealed hatred in so many TOP responses here. It is also amusing to see people who only a couple short months ago were scolding my alliance mates for their choler and willingness to go to war now saying "shut up and fight!!1@#3" I also love that the most creative spin their side could come up with this time was recycling rhetoric from Karma that doesn't even fit the situation. Times have changed and TOP/IRON have thusfar refused to change with them. Until TOP begins to accept that they have mishandled several important situations, I have little hope that they will regain the dignity they have been hemorrhaging. Until that time, best of luck to CnG and her allies in this fight. I only hope that all this gabbing will not weaken your stomach for the task that lies ahead. Final thought: A lot of TOP members seem to be very keen on the notion of peace. To answer lightning's question, because terms need to be enforced and you need to feel comfortably superior to your adversary in order to trust in them. Make no mistake, this war cannot end in anything less than a loss for one or both parties. Sorry, we can't all go home winners here.

Keep in mind Alpha Omega have been close friends with Sparta for several years now. Also keep in mind your side started this war. Also keep in mind that you recently jumped ship to another alliance yourself, no? Also keep in mind that this is not the end of the world and this is a bad way to approach diplomacy.

I like that the Grandmaster of TOP is saying they DoW'd because they knew that CnG was an upcoming power they'd have to deal with eventually, but Bob Janova still takes the burden upon himself to rewrite their motivations in every open discussion. You know, some people enter into those planning channels still undecided, and there are multiple levels of channels pursuant to the level of involvement of each alliance. And how do you know which channels CnG members were in? Were you spying, Bob? lol. Or maybe you just accepted information. This is all crap. TOP declared war, maybe that war would have happened or maybe not, but it's happening now. TOP delcared this war because they felt CnG would displace them from their lofty position. They rolled the dice, and now we are waiting to see how it turns out. They are still the aggressors here, and CnG doesn't owe them anything.

Ok, Bob, so you believe that it was a Polar trap then? Because that war was being peaced out at the very same time TOP/IRON declared in solidarity. haha. This position is insane. As I said, we can all gesticulate wildly about what backroom stuff we [i]claim[/i] happened, but there is a huge gulf between that and what concrete actions are taken. TOP was afraid the STA/Kronos incident would get them into war with CnG as well. TOP's been !@#$%-footing around CnG and whispering in the shadows forever. But what it boils down to is: what actually happened? CnG did not get involved in the original war because that war ended, however, TOP and IRON declared an offensive war whose OP had no particular CB in it. I repeat, had another alliance done this, you would never accept it on faith that it was a legitimate CB. I am not in the habit of trusting people who go out of their way to escalate wars and then complain when it blows up in their face. Especially after they sold my own alliance down the river to avoid just such a war only a couple of months earlier. So Bob, who were the aggressors in this war in your opinion? CnG? lol. EDIT: If a set of powerful alliances like TOP/IRON attacked me with the CB (or lack thereof) that was used here, I would be looking to strike a nearly crippling blow if I could deliver it. Because obviously they hold deep hostilities towards me and mine, and my obligations to protect them demand it. They made the aggressive choice, and there are consequences. P.S. - I heard FoA was planning to attack Umbrella/GOD and that's why \m/ started their war on them. 2legitright?

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='11 February 2010 - 09:57 AM' timestamp='1265900262' post='2174754'] Good to see you back Syz. TOP's choice of method to enter the war, and the fact that I have a good new home, means I can't really justify joining you, but no-one can say you don't put your money where your mouth is. Good luck finding many enemies in range though Step 1: ditch paranoia Step 2: stop acting like the Hegemony Step 3: yes TOP did not 'come for you with a flimsy CB', and they will not 'come for you' again unless you are lined up in an enemy coalition again. [/quote] Your loyalties have usurped your reason, Bob. It is entirely unjustifiable to compare those now at war with TOP with the hegemony. At the end of the day, no matter how much back channel justification you try to give, TOP declared war on the entirety of CnG with no CB at all. If anyone but TOP had done this, you would be their most vocal opponent. The truth is that whatever bad blood there was between these two sides previously has not been quelled by TOP's knee-jerk declaration of war. If anything, they have forced the issue to become deadly serious. TOP declared CnG their enemies, and I fail to see how it is paranoia to think that if CnG peaced them out now that they would be opening the door to reprisal months down the road. I am glad to see Moridin, who along with his comrades liberated me of a couple thousand infrastructure so far, can step outside his personal distaste for much of CnG and see the writing on the wall. At best, TOP took a huge political gamble that defied courtesy and convention in war, and at worst used a tumultuous political time as an excuse to attack the group of alliances they saw as most threatening to their priviledged position on Planet Bob. Either way, C&G would be fools not to carry this war through and see it to some form of adequate conclusion whether victory or loss. This issue must come to a head now, that much TOP has assured. I shed no tears for the loss of TOP's infrastructure or cash reserves, and nor should you. EDIT: I appreciate that you are doing what you think is right, Syz. You do have to stick by your friends, just don't lose sight of the fact of how we got here. Sometimes you best serve your friends by being critical of them. But you seem well-aware of that. EDIT#2: Actually, Hal, if you look at the incomprehensibility of IRON's treaties, it reminds me a great deal of that paralyzed period of Hegemony stagnation. The fact that TOP chose IRON over all others is tell-tale. I think branding anyone the Hegemony in this situation is misleading, but "we thought you were coming for us later at some point" is not the kind of CB that gets you white peace nor should it. TOP and IRON are not angels in this so let's stop that right now.

I actually only joined Kronos on a mission from Sparta to infiltrate their community and work towards isolating TOP... I would have returned to the nest by now, but I had to make sure my effects were lasting... but hey, I've said too much. [img]http://pictures.mastermarf.com/blog/2009/090921-conspiracy.jpg[/img]

I hate to toot our own horn... Just kidding, I love it! We're a small alliance, but we go all in when we go. All other crap aside, we will not hesitate to nuke and be nuked in kind. That being said, it's easy to have good stats with only 30 members. It'd be more sad if we didn't than impressive that we do. Nevertheless, we're awesome, and you're jealous! [img]http://vampster.com/images/cdreviews/Kronos-Titan.jpg[/img] o/ death, pestilence, and famine! Also Kronos.

Why the war is worth fighting: so that not only the most powerful alliances on Planet Bob can make up the rules as they go with impunity. It's funny, that sounds like another war that happened fairly recently. Whether both CnG and TOP were sizing each other up in private is more or less irrelevant the moment one side declares a broad spectrum war with no reason nor attempt at diplomacy. At that point, you're the bad guy, and you know it. I don't understand why anyone thinks white peace is acceptable here (except for TOP due to the major monetary advantage they have). Why should those who were attacked out of nowhere feel a spirit of magnanimity towards their aggressors? If CnG manages to come out on top of this war, I fully expect there to be reparations and will be honestly dismayed if there are not. It is clear that we are living in a time of much upheaval and conventions are being challenged. War is the means of negotiation. I can only hope that TOP will not emerge victorious because of the dangerous precedent it will set. If you start wielding too much power, expect a knock on you and yours' doors one night and not even the trouble of a justification. Don't be fooled, this war is about what most wars are about: what can the big guy(s) get away with? EDIT: I just figured I'd put forth one more troubling piece of information: the war that CnG was apparently baiting TOP into was over that same night. CnG must have known Polar was trying for peace, and so... You really have to shove that tinfoil hat on tight to make that justification work. MAYBE CnG HEARD LEAKED STUFF THAT TOP PLANNED TO ATTACK ONE OF THEIR TREATY PARTNERS AND SO PREPARED TO COUNTER IF/WHEN THAT HAPPENED? For shame?

Great to see this if even from a different perspective as I would have months ago. Happy hunting! o/ umbrella O/ sparta :x

It is unfortunate that I am drunk right now... but let my opponents be assured that when/if I sobre up, they can expect even more of the same! o/ Kronos o/ [ooc]Seghesio Zinfandel 2007[/ooc]

It's always flattering to have your low opinion of someone so lauded in the community validated. I figured the resultant situation from your peace with \m/ et all would have your internal community in a dither and even predicted you'd do something stupid to save face. mmm. I think this qualifies. I could degrade myself by going into semantics with you, but instead I will just point out that [b]you failed to defend your close allies when they were declared on without CB by a coalition of some of the strongest alliances on Planet Bob[/b]. Though you do seem to fit that side more, as you both favour unwarranted aggression and never seem to be able to tell who are your friends and who are your enemies. With these latest actions there can be no doubting that the political life on Planet Bob will never be the same. It may be a messed up situation, but you were a foundational hand in it, and you will still be judged for your decisions difficult or no.

This war should be called [i]The War of Extraneous Outrage[/i].

I just always assumed FAN spied. *shrugs* This may be true or may not be. Either way, releasing the info publicly kind of sucks for those whose sensitive information you are leaking. I will echo that there seems a dearth of evidence to support the strength of your claims. Anyway, if this is seriously their plan, I fear it not. It is far too ambitious to succeed though it does seem like a great peace-time hobby to keep members busy. Good luck with the global domination, FAN.

TOP may have made grave political mistakes lately... but at least they haven't lost their dignity and stoic wit they are so renowned for... I must admit, I am jealous, Sparta. It should be good fun so long as the evident whining doesn't get too out of hand. Good hunting, gentlemen! [img]http://seemikedraw.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/hunting-trophy.gif[/img]

RV's song and dance haven't changed, but luckily Planet Bob has. You're going to have to freshen up your act if you want to remain meddlesome. TOP and IRON declared on CnG who were uninvolved. That alone sort of changes the situation. I could entertain your claims of disbandment etc, but that only lends them a semblance of legitimacy that up til now is utterly unwarranted. If anything, TOP has been issuing the same "scorched earth" policy that NPOers were shouting throughout Karma where they would rather burn than accept terms. We'll see how it all pans out, but if TOP continues to take this attitude, I fully hope that those at war with them will hold them to their word.