Under-rated/Over-rated alliances

[Haflinger]

I can't believe the mockery of '-bama' is really meant to actually cause emotional injury or upset to bamabuc. Rather, it's merely an expression of derision.

Does one generally use expressions of derision directed at particular individuals to please them or make them happy?

So you managed to be guilt tripped into one war.

No, they didn't. I was there; Legion volunteered for the war right away. There were plenty of other alliances that needed to be reminded of what their treaties said, Legion wasn't one of them.

As for the people who're saying we're overrated, I don't get that. We're widely despised. In order to be overrated, someone has to like you. The friends we do have are all in serious underdog positions. It'd be like saying we were overrated back when noWedge was trying to bully us into staying out of Purple Senate.

That probably goes for Sparta as well. More people like them than us, but they don't get a lot of respect. Whether this is deserved or not is a matter of debate...

But in order to be overrated, you'd have to be highly rated, right? So alliances like STA, MK, NSO, NpO and RoK should be the ones that you're talking about. Not alliances that are widely looked down upon.

[Daikos]

Agreeing with this. Although they seem to avoid the forums, they're some of the most vicious techraiders there are in the game, and they're highly successful.

It's probably best they avoid the forums, whenever they do post it's never anything very mature. Least from my experiences.

[nippy]

Careful. NEW ended up liking CCC in the end. tongue.gif

What a pity. I was hoping they were intolerable godless heathens, just like me.

It's probably best they avoid the forums, whenever they do post it's never anything very mature. Least from my experiences.

Would you say they're... 'hunesque'?

[Ivan Moldavi]

Does one generally use expressions of derision directed at particular individuals to please them or make them happy?

No, they didn't. I was there; Legion volunteered for the war right away. There were plenty of other alliances that needed to be reminded of what their treaties said, Legion wasn't one of them.

As for the people who're saying we're overrated, I don't get that. We're widely despised. In order to be overrated, someone has to like you. The friends we do have are all in serious underdog positions. It'd be like saying we were overrated back when noWedge was trying to bully us into staying out of Purple Senate.

That probably goes for Sparta as well. More people like them than us, but they don't get a lot of respect. Whether this is deserved or not is a matter of debate...

But in order to be overrated, you'd have to be highly rated, right? So alliances like STA, MK, NSO, NpO and RoK should be the ones that you're talking about. Not alliances that are widely looked down upon.

People don't look down on the NSO? Odd.

[flak attack]

Overrated: Gremlins, TOP, MHA, Sparta. The first two are stat huggers who only really stand for the side that will let them protect their stats, the second two have a bark far worse than their bite.

Hey guys, remember that time Gremlins threatened to nuke NPO during GW3?

How about that time they left tC despite knowing they were high up on NPO's !@#$ list?

Or maybe that time they went head to head against one of the only alliances' whose top tier could actually hurt theirs?

Good times.

[Goldie]

i dont see how you can call gre stat huggers. they went full force in the karma war and took a lot of losses that other alliances werent man enough to take.

[USMC123]

i dont see how you can call gre stat huggers. they went full force in the karma war and took a lot of losses that other alliances werent man enough to take.

Meh. Not as much as you may think, but I don't discredit them cuz they didn't have a whole lot of targets after the first week of war.

[The Big Bad]

While I agree that VE is underrated, to an extent, I entirely disagree with your reasoning. Infact, I have never seen an example of any of the factors listed above applied to VE.

Could you possibly point out some to me?

I cannot think of even one example, let alone "a string of failures" that has been "pointed out at every turn". I was under the impression that we are far too quiet, however there seems to be some sort of large series of failures in front of the public that was left entirely unnoticed by those within VE and also somehow missed by our large active member base that regularly reads the OWF...correct? Our level of engagement, proficiency, and damage in this last war was widely praised, even by our opponents, yet I'm sure you can point out its public recognition as an overall inadequate showing of military power, or disprove statistics that say otherwise...correct? The political moves and stances we took prior to the war generated two of the longest threads ever, and the posts therein contained very little malcontent for our alliance, however as you say, there must have been some event that took place after that where we were portrayed as clowns...can you find and and link it here for me?

Please, point out this string of failures and public mockery and do not just ignore this post because you have actually been asked to back up your claim. After all, I'm sure someone such as your self would never just say things for the sake of slander, statements without any element of merit or truth behind them, strictly for personal reasons due how badly it stung when Argin, a former Viridian Lord, went rogue on you and made it known that you not very big and bad...right?

Come on champ, don't be embarrassed, back up your claims.

If you don't know people bash on VE on a regular basis then you have been keepinig to yourselves.

I don't know who Argin is. If he was a rogue then I sure don't know who he or she is as my old nation was hit by a nuke rogue at least twice a month for a couple of years, I think I was ahead of Moo on that account. The smart ones were the ones who would do it when we were at war with someone that at least made it interesting. I do remember the one guy who nuked me and Big Woody. He attacked Woody because he did not like TORNs flag or something and he attacked me because... well he was never really sure he thought I did something and when I pointed out that I had no idea what he was talking about he said it was just because. I like to earn my nuke rogues, its a matter of pride. To have him rogue me by mistake well that was unique. Was that him? Cause that I remember. I have no doubt when I get back into range I will be visited by many nuke rogues again.

Of course the fact is, if what I said about the general lol and rolling of the eyes when people spoke of VE was not true then it would not have stuck such a nerve would it? If you can not deal with that then do soemthing to fix it or you can say who cares what people think of VE, or you can bury your head back in the sand and pretend you don't know. Much like my feelings for VE I really don't care.

[Azaghul]

Overrated: Gremlins, TOP, MHA, Sparta. The first two are stat huggers who only really stand for the side that will let them protect their stats, the second two have a bark far worse than their bite.

Uh, I can't really speak for TOP (though I don't agree with the charge against them) but the Gremlins are definitely NOT "stat huggers who only really stand for the side that will let them protect their stats".

As flak attack pointed out they took on the no small task of taking out IRON's upper ranks in the Karma war, and took heavy losses doing so. They put themselves out on a limb by leaving the Continuum, and fought in GW3. Not only that but they openly had a nuclear first strike policy before it was cool: at a time when using nukes was generally considered a guarantee that your enemy wouldn't be merciful. I've talked with numerous Gremlins especially during the time before the Karma war. While you might be able to criticize their commitment to generally peacefulness and their principles, those principles have nothing to do with an excessive commitment to protect their stats. If anything those principles put them more at risk, rather than less, as they moved away from the safety of Q and butted heads with people because of them.

[BamaBuc]

Overrated: Most loud alliances, elite alliances, cool alliances, and so on. It's not that these alliances are bad. Not at all, some of them are great. It's just that they tend to have a lot of hype around them that they couldn't possibly live up to. MK, for example, is damn good at war (I'd know, I fought them). But there's no way they could possibly live up to some of the hype. There are no superhuman alliances.

Underrated: Most quiet alliances, disliked alliances, "crap" alliances, etc. They're not necessarily good... But there's no way they're as bad as the reputations they get. Sparta isn't exactly a military powerhouse, but no way are they as bad at war as people here would have you think.

What people need to realize is that overrated does not equate to bad, and underrated does not equate to good. There are amazing alliances who are overrated and terrible ones that are underrated. It's just a matter of where you think they stand compared to the general perception of them.

-Bama

[TypoNinja]

If you don't know people bash on VE on a regular basis then you have been keepinig to yourselves.

I don't know who Argin is. If he was a rogue then I sure don't know who he or she is as my old nation was hit by a nuke rogue at least twice a month for a couple of years, I think I was ahead of Moo on that account. The smart ones were the ones who would do it when we were at war with someone that at least made it interesting. I do remember the one guy who nuked me and Big Woody. He attacked Woody because he did not like TORNs flag or something and he attacked me because... well he was never really sure he thought I did something and when I pointed out that I had no idea what he was talking about he said it was just because. I like to earn my nuke rogues, its a matter of pride. To have him rogue me by mistake well that was unique. Was that him? Cause that I remember. I have no doubt when I get back into range I will be visited by many nuke rogues again.

Of course the fact is, if what I said about the general lol and rolling of the eyes when people spoke of VE was not true then it would not have stuck such a nerve would it? If you can not deal with that then do soemthing to fix it or you can say who cares what people think of VE, or you can bury your head back in the sand and pretend you don't know. Much like my feelings for VE I really don't care.

Actually, seeing how as you never mentioned (or linked) to any specific events or behaviour, you strike me as nothing more than an individual who's feeling very bitter over something. Did we piss in your cheerio's or something?

[Il Impero Romano]

If you don't know people bash on VE on a regular basis then you have been keepinig to yourselves.

I don't know who Argin is. If he was a rogue then I sure don't know who he or she is as my old nation was hit by a nuke rogue at least twice a month for a couple of years, I think I was ahead of Moo on that account. The smart ones were the ones who would do it when we were at war with someone that at least made it interesting. I do remember the one guy who nuked me and Big Woody. He attacked Woody because he did not like TORNs flag or something and he attacked me because... well he was never really sure he thought I did something and when I pointed out that I had no idea what he was talking about he said it was just because. I like to earn my nuke rogues, its a matter of pride. To have him rogue me by mistake well that was unique. Was that him? Cause that I remember. I have no doubt when I get back into range I will be visited by many nuke rogues again.

Of course the fact is, if what I said about the general lol and rolling of the eyes when people spoke of VE was not true then it would not have stuck such a nerve would it? If you can not deal with that then do soemthing to fix it or you can say who cares what people think of VE, or you can bury your head back in the sand and pretend you don't know. Much like my feelings for VE I really don't care.

...I said prove it, as in actually provide proof rather than continue to make conclusory statements. Show me this public bashing, link me to the multiple displays of failure that you claimed to exist in your previous post and continue to try and say are the real basis for your opinion. Its very, very simple. I contend they do not exist and you are not being truthful as to your reasoning, and if you wish to refute that and show your statements as true, you must provide ample proof.

No assertion is valid if you cannot provide a sufficient amount of proof. Any assertion wholly based on conclusory statements is automatically considered untrue. You have made absolutely nothing but conclusory statements here again, along with some catch phrase type babbling about my head being in the sand and some ramblings about rogues (proving the matter as a sensitive point in a way, but that's off topic). I have to go ahead and say you are the one looking like they are not about to see their surroundings clearly. Also, as for calling your personal motive into question, go look at your "goodbye" thread.

Once again, prove what you are saying (in both your previous post and above) with links, quotes, and the like, before you continue to embarrass yourself.

[Bill Wallace]

blah blah blah

Hey sweety, welcome back. My Saturday nights have been awfully lonely without you.

[The Big Bad]

Actually, seeing how as you never mentioned (or linked) to any specific events or behaviour, you strike me as nothing more than an individual who's feeling very bitter over something. Did we piss in your cheerio's or something?

I am not bitter, I am The Bad. You have not done anything as far as I know, if VE did something to make me angry I would not be here saying they are underrated I would be plotting its demise. The very fact you have managed to screw up me giving your alliance a compliment speaks volumes though. Perhaps I was wrong VE is not underrated, your are exactly what many people think you are. Does that make you feel better?

[Il Impero Romano]

I am not bitter, I am The Bad. You have not done anything as far as I know, if VE did something to make me angry I would not be here saying they are underrated I would be plotting its demise. The very fact you have managed to screw up me giving your alliance a compliment speaks volumes though. Perhaps I was wrong VE is not underrated, your are exactly what many people think you are. Does that make you feel better?

...I said prove it, as in actually provide proof rather than continue to make conclusory statements. Show me this public bashing, link me to the multiple displays of failure that you claimed to exist in your previous post and continue to try and say are the real basis for your opinion. Its very, very simple. I contend they do not exist and you are not being truthful as to your reasoning, and if you wish to refute that and show your statements as true, you must provide ample proof.

No assertion is valid if you cannot provide a sufficient amount of proof. Any assertion wholly based on conclusory statements is automatically considered untrue. You have made absolutely nothing but conclusory statements here again, along with some catch phrase type babbling about my head being in the sand and some ramblings about rogues (proving the matter as a sensitive point in a way, but that's off topic). I have to go ahead and say you are the one looking like they are not about to see their surroundings clearly. Also, as for calling your personal motive into question, go look at your "goodbye" thread.

Once again, prove what you are saying (in both your previous post and above) with links, quotes, and the like, before you continue to embarrass yourself.

I'm asking you again...read the above and post the requested please. Just look through this thread, everyone else seems to understand the concept.

[The Big Bad]

I'm asking you again...read the above and post the requested please. Just look through this thread, everyone else seems to understand the concept.

No. You have proven yourself unworthy of my compliment. I take it back. ODN and Sparta remain underrated it seems VE has just proven it is not. You are exacty what people think you are it seems.

[Barnaby von Farter]

On behalf of the Network, thanks for the compliment.

We've got a rich and colorful history of failures.

[The Big Bad]

On behalf of the Network, thanks for the compliment.

We've got a rich and colorful history of failures.

I think Arsenal is gonna fix you up. It just takes time is all.

[Barnaby von Farter]

I think Arsenal is gonna fix you up. It just takes time is all.

Our SeXXXGen is doing a hell of a job, along with the rest of our government. The fixing is currently underway, I tell you.

[Thierra]

The obvious answer is 'More than the IAA'. But that would be too easy. Whatever happened to you guys? Used to be cool. Too bad.

Now, as to your and your colleagues ill informed ramblings;

Legion survived the only disbandment notice given by a leadership. That's because the Legion means something. Let's see the IAA survive such stresses. I can think of only three others that might do the same and IAA isn't one of them.

They were one of the few that fought on NPO's side that stuck to its treaty obligations (which used to be seen as a good thing) and didn't do the Karma war shuffle that other 'more relevant' alliances did. Then they fought 9 alliances to a standstill before withdrawing with an improved reputation among the more intelligent communities not still reading their news from 'The Daily 2006'.

The only people claiming the Legion don't have a spine are those who do not have a brain.

I feel Pacifica (ironically) helped Legion in keeping their alliance together. If I recall, they said they would declare on anyone that left Legion during the carrying-out of their terms. So, I commend them for correctly deciding that Legion > annihilation. Very good.

As far as your claim that people use "______(name of your alliance)_____ means something"; this is a fairly effective, if overused element of propaganda. Few alliances in recent years have actually "meant something" other than the community and family-warm fuzziness that propagates throughout their off-site forums... off the top of my head, Vox Populi, MCXA (before they became uni-color), and the neutrals. Aside from that, alliances only "mean something" to the people in it, which isn't a surprise.

I'll throw it out there that Legion ducked out in less than a week, and lost only a fourth of what the Grand Global Alliance did.

As far as underrated alliances, I want put a tally next to Ordo Verde. How this small alliance ended up scoring more tech than they possibly know what to do with is amazing as a fun story and an interesting display of how inter-alliance politics work. Aside from that educational aspect, they really have nothing else that gets me going.

[Il Impero Romano]

No. You have proven yourself unworthy of my compliment. I take it back. ODN and Sparta remain underrated it seems VE has just proven it is not. You are exacty what people think you are it seems.

I'm sure your intelligent enough to know that your above statement is obviously a very poor cop-out, effectively proving my point, and everyone who reads it will take it as such.

Understand, it was not my direct intention to publicly embarrass you with this line of questioning, but rather an unavoidable side effect of the statement you yourself originally made. I admit, I did know (as did anyone else who is active on these forums) that there was no way for you to prove what you had said, as proof of it does not exist, but in good form gave you the opportunity to do so or come clean with your real reasoning anyway. In no way was that said statement intended as a compliment, and my request and argument was very simple (all it amounted to was "prove it or its untrue", however I understand if my terminology is confusing but I did say it clearly enough quite a few times).

Having a factual basis behind the assertions one makes is a universal concept; and in the future, to your own benefit, I hope you will remember how this conversation went and make your claims accordingly.

Also, I forgot to mention, I think GATO is pretty underrated.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Il Impero Romano

[Cornelius]

Now I know why Impero likes law school ....

[HellAngel]

Ya know, blowing !@#$ up is a stat too. I'm currently serving up 1,229.49 infra/day 316.15 tech/day 1,505.50 land/day in damages, care to play? Our nations are a byproduct of efficient play, we're not particularly attached to them. I know I only build mine properly and efficiently so I can lay the hammer down on people during war to a larger degree. If you're going to play a game might as well play it efficiently and to the best of ones ability, doing so inherently creates a large nation, not because we care for pixels as anything more then a way to play the game as we desire.

Amen brother. Im only a stat whore to make you whine about loosing your stats.

[Hymenbreach]

I feel Pacifica (ironically) helped Legion in keeping their alliance together. If I recall, they said they would declare on anyone that left Legion during the carrying-out of their terms. So, I commend them for correctly deciding that Legion > annihilation. Very good.

Your timing is out.

The disbandment order came a few days before I went to the NPO to ask for terms and then it took another week for the terms to come into force.

The ordinary membership had already decided in the old Legion channel that 'No' was the correct answer to the request to disband. Alas, not everyone goes on IRC and we lost half our size in a couple of days (though many came back on realizing the disbandment was illegal). We had already decided to carry on when I got terms for our leaderships actions and I took terms so that the non-government members would not have a rock drop on them for the stupidity of former leaders, all of whom had fled (and none of whom have been sufficiently punished by Legion for the harm they did).

And we decided to carry on when we knew that the best that we could hope for was a pounding to dust. So, yes. That does mean something.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Hymenbreach

[Doc Taco]

Have to reiterate that the MHA must first be highly rated in order to become overrated. People that call us overrated remind me of the moron football fans who chant "OVER-RATED" after their top-10 ranked team beats some Division II school (it happens). Yes the MHA has a lot of members and by extension a lot of accumulated NS. But we can read our stats page as well as anyone, and we know we don't have the Nukes/Tech/Infra of some people. Ever consider that is not what we are about?

The Grämlins on the other hand, anyone who thinks that they have failed to live up to their reputation has not been paying attention.