Under-rated/Over-rated alliances

[WorkingClassRuler]

I'd probably rather be over-rated, as no one actually expects us to try Diplomacy and peace have always come before war in MHA, and perhaps that lead to our lethargy seen in the Karma war. But that was not our only rodeo, nor will it likely be our last. I'm quietly confident that we're making the changes necessary to improve our military side if it's needed in future. We'll never be a devoutly military alliance, but we'll hold our own if diplomacy fails.

I don't believe my comments will change some opinions, nor do I (honestly) care to, but I just wanted to show that we are aware of our "problems" and will address them as soon as the Gargle Blasters kick in.

[Deadshot]

Overrated:

NSO - We are what we are, which isn't what most of you think.

Bel-Air - lulz are not quite as funny (at least to me) as you think. Which I guess makes them even more funny to you.

Sparta - Nothing personal. I think you are overrated simply because when you took over the #1 spot, everyone thought you were supposed to be the new evil overlords, yet you have never really been that type of alliance.

Underrated:

NSO - Out of our detractors, most seem to believe we are nothing more than an Ivan cult. If you actually speak to us you may be pleasantly surprised to see we are a quite capable alliance, with a multitude of talent.

Bel-Air- Listing them again as well because once you dig through the lulz and all that crap, you can see they have plenty of intelligent and good people.

GATO - Good things coming from them, but are not very vocal so most don't realize it.

[Penkala]

Many would never have even known had it not become such an echo among embittered NPO and other members. To these sentiments I shrug.

Pretty sure your lack of willingness to engage targets in the Karma war was noticed well before NPO began talking about it. Though I have noticed the purges, so who knows where you guys stand right now. But for sure during the Karma war your military and internal affairs were less than stellar.

[janax]

Under-rated: Kronos tops my list here... their community is awesome and they are activity based which makes for a rather reliable war machine. I really dig these guys. For me the only tough part is that they are allied to some people I don't have a whole lot of respect for. But that's CN. Kronos are no doubt awesome allies and that is the most important consideration. Definitely people worth knowing.

Hmm...let's see. Kronos is allied to Athens (your treaty partner, so that is out), Argent, Umbrella (your treaty partner), TOP, Valhalla and OMFG (an ODP)

Guess that narrows it down some doesn't it?

[Khyber]

Yeah yeah, I know what you're saying. GR has gone through some changes and a little retraction over the last six months or so but you're not giving them enough credit. GR has an active and loyal base, a good history of competency, and it says a lot that they're the only alliance OBR has seen fit to sign a MDP with. I'd wager GR can go toe to toe with any comparably sized alliance out there.

Seeing some stat collection on aid slot usage has me seriously doubting the efficiency of GR. They were at 10% for a long time. That said your opinion probably holds more weight then mine since I don't know them personally, at least not the new GR. But I would caution against bias as well.

[BamaBuc]

Hmm...let's see. Kronos is allied to Athens (your treaty partner, so that is out), Argent, Umbrella (your treaty partner), TOP, Valhalla and OMFG (an ODP)

Guess that narrows it down some doesn't it?

With all due respect, it's entirely possible that he doesn't like all of his alliance's treaty partners. Lord knows Starfox can't stand Invicta, for example.

-Bama

[Venizelos]

Hmm...let's see. Kronos is allied to Athens (your treaty partner, so that is out), Argent, Umbrella (your treaty partner), TOP, Valhalla and OMFG (an ODP)

Guess that narrows it down some doesn't it?

don't worry janax, i bet hes talkin about failhalla.

[Bob Janova]

TOP are underrated – they're no. 1, they're also high ANS (so their total score doesn't really represent their strength), and yet they are hardly discussed, never mind talked about in the way that previous no. 1 alliances (NPO, GOONS, IRON) were. Sparta are probably rated about right, as the word of their top-tier problems in Karma got out so they're not rated that highly these days.

NpO and FAN are both flying under the radar – NpO particularly is underrated.

Likewise, NPO are still over-rated; a lot of people still act in fear of them, even though they are materially damaged and politically crippled.

[Master-Debater]

Over: MHA, Sparta, TOOL

Under: NpO, NPO, Valhalla, GGA, MK(never under-estimate the power of mushrooms)

[Lord Brendan]

TOP are underrated – they're no. 1, they're also high ANS (so their total score doesn't really represent their strength), and yet they are hardly discussed, never mind talked about in the way that previous no. 1 alliances (NPO, GOONS, IRON) were. Sparta are probably rated about right, as the word of their top-tier problems in Karma got out so they're not rated that highly these days.

NpO and FAN are both flying under the radar – NpO particularly is underrated.

Likewise, NPO are still over-rated; a lot of people still act in fear of them, even though they are materially damaged and politically crippled.

I don't believe IRON has ever been #1. Sparta and TOP passed them long before NPO fell below them.

[Bob Janova]

Yeah, you're right. I was thinking of in the past actually but I think I just had two thoughts crossing in my mind at that point, since IRON have never been thought of that way either.

[Heracles the Great]

Under-rated: Kronos tops my list here... their community is awesome and they are activity based which makes for a rather reliable war machine. I really dig these guys. For me the only tough part is that they are allied to some people I don't have a whole lot of respect for. But that's CN. Kronos are no doubt awesome allies and that is the most important consideration. Definitely people worth knowing.

Speaking of which - we've missed you - please come back and entertain us...

[erikz]

With all due respect, it's entirely possible that he doesn't like all of his alliance's treaty partners. Lord knows Starfox can't stand Invicta, for example.

-Bama

Who could possibly stand Invicta?

[President Obama]

Who could possibly stand Invicta?

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Treaties_of_Invicta

Probably those people.

Edited October 12, 2009 by President Obama

[Locke]

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Treaties_of_Invicta

Probably those people.

Heh, that actually need a bit of updating.

[Mentor]

I think Fok and Fark are 100% underrated, surprised why so many people did not mention MK, they fought great in both their last 2 wars and were very united.

[zimmerwald1915]

surprised why so many people did not mention MK, they fought great in both their last 2 wars and were very united.

That's why people didn't mention them. It's common knowledge.

[Tromp]

My opinion:

Underrated: RnR, FARK, NpO, VE, Invicta.

Overrated: FOK, duh.

[Amonra]

Overrated: Invincta and Legion, | GDA, NADC, WTF, GPA and TDO are overrated stat-wise.

Who is this Invincta you speak of? We will need to talk to them about how close their name is to ours!

[Timmmehhh]

Who is this Invincta you speak of? We will need to talk to them about how close their name is to ours!

I meant Invicta obviously.

[Drai]

Seeing some stat collection on aid slot usage has me seriously doubting the efficiency of GR. They were at 10% for a long time. That said your opinion probably holds more weight then mine since I don't know them personally, at least not the new GR. But I would caution against bias as well.

They were clearing their slots for NPO reps, which came in at a much slower rate than expected.

[sodom gomorrah]

Well, an interesting topic actually. And yes, that's OWF relative.

Everyone knows that smaller alliances usually have a better military coordination due to smaller size which gives a shorter path from high command to footman. The members are usually more loyal to the alliance as it's probably more tight-knit. But to compare an alliance with say 100 members with MHA, Sparta or IRON seems quite odd, since the big difference in size of the alliances makes it separate shows to keep 'em running. Sure, small alliances IS more effective in %, but in a 1 vs. 1 showdown between say MHA and TPF, 10 or even 30% more effectiveness won't matter, being outnumbered 6 to 1 with about equal avg NS means you're getting stomped.

If we instead compare say 6 of those 100-man-alliances with MHA, the effectiveness of those six alliances depends big time upon the effectiveness of their milcom and their governments ability to cooperate. MHA don't have to coop with anyone in this scenario, they have their milcom standing and their structure done. My point is that who's under/overrated between smaller and mass alliances solely on the smaller alliances ability to cooperate versus the mass alliances internal organization. With Karma wars in the back, I think that we've got plenty of proof that both of these might fail, if Karma milcom with Archon and LM (& co.) would not have centralized it as they did, then considerably less of karma forces would have returned from the battlefield.

When it comes to elite alliances, I think you must accept that you can't compare them to mass alliances. For example, no other alliance, possibly except for WTF can match TOP or Grä top tier(ehh, pun?). It's the same as the comparison between TPF and MHA in the beginning. What gives the larger elite alliances and citadel in general i s'ppose) a head start, is the fact that you'd have to form a coalition of a large number of smaller alliance to make it even in numbers. If their united milcom is capable of this, then one can speak of over/underrated here.

Generally though, I think that mass alliances are slightly underrated by most, they have the time to prepare their military structure, just look at NpO's nuke drive for example. Their internal aid programs has given them some of the finest middle-tier on planet bob. Programs as that is much easier to be done in mass alliances; i.e. it's the best for military growth if you do it right. And since we just have maybe one great war each year, the growth in that long period between them is much more important than that month of fighting.

When it comes to elite alliances, I think they are generally overrated, they can't do much against most foes since they can't hit most of them. However, i still think citadel is underrated. Citadel is more or less the only top-tier mass-bloc out there, which means it's the nemesis for all small elite alliances and upper-middle-tier alliances, nones simply got the numbers to do it without forming another 103-alliance-coalition opposed to cit, and with the treaty web as it is, that's might be a problem

And yes, I'd love comments, but i did this with as few names as possible for a reason, I have absolutely no interest in having some trollish debates this time

[Stumpy Jung Il]

My point never needed for me to point out this was for current alliances only as that was never a claim. The point is how ridiculous it is comparing current alliances with one you thought overrated and hadn't existed for years. The massive changes in mechanics and the way things are done on an organizational level make it near impossible to make any sort of reasonable comparison.

And yet that small alliance did more than you will ever do in this game. Weird. Thanks for the kind words WorldConqueror, I love you babe.

[Drostan]

Hmm...let's see. Kronos is allied to Athens (your treaty partner, so that is out), Argent, Umbrella (your treaty partner), TOP, Valhalla and OMFG (an ODP)

Guess that narrows it down some doesn't it?

You do a great job of representing your alliance and strengthening diplomatic bonds.

[WorldConqueror]

And yet that small alliance did more than you will ever do in this game. Weird. Thanks for the kind words WorldConqueror, I love you babe.

Love you too Trashcat. I'm still in mourning over TDSM8 , best diplomatic assignment I ever had. And a far better alliance than Sparta could ever hope to be.