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[tongkzalot]

 

Well Tywin is a recent addition and in my mind does not reflect Polar's culture at all. Polar is an autocratic alliance with a fairly strict structure and at the same time, it allows for members to speak their minds. (hell if ES was around, ask him. I used to cause him some major headaches with my mouth back in the day hahahaha). Polar is a moralist alliance but does not embrace all the moralist attitudes. The main one it does embrace is anti-raider though only for itself nowadays. (UjW kinda put an end to Polaris just up and hitting raiding alliances for raiding). It is about Power as well but that has also evolved with time. Polaris no longer attempts to rule all of CN (that is a pain to do and does not last all that long really). Polaris is about their allies, particularly nowadays as evidenced by the last couple of wars. 

 

So yeah, to take anything Tywin says and have it reflect Polaris is warped and ridiculous. Tywin reflects Tywin and that is about it. He speaks for no one else and most likely never will. Daj represents the New Polaris. One that is the same, yet different from ES's Polaris. Random was the transition time for Polaris. And while Polaris will always hold a special place in my heart, I do miss ES's Polaris. :P

hummm...base on your comments here, i think polaris also misses you as much as you do. :ehm:

 

though i don't support most of  tywin's post here, i don't think he is that @ssh0%%, you should at least not that mean to him.

Edited December 20, 2014 by tongkzalot

[Dajobo]

I'll try to explain this for you in a short version, no one like walls of text. Doch was pretty on the money for the most part, he gets us.

I'm a moralist by some peoples definition, but not by others. Polar doesn't raid at all, but doesn't try to decide if others should or shouldn't. Polar is very much about doing the right thing by our members and allies. We'd rather lose a war defending an ally in the right than win a war at an allies expense.

We do engage in real politics at times, but only when it benefits our members and allies. We're also honest with the other alliance involved where that happens.

One thing that stands Polar apart from many other alliances though is we will not partake in any coalition or plan that would knowingly involve any ally being attacked. For an example of what I mean look at R&R who actively joined and supported a coalition, knowing that coalition would be hitting three of their own allies. That type of behavior disgusts me to the core and is a great example of where the line falls between moralist and real politics for us.

We are a military alliance and we have no issue with war, infact we love it. Winning is better but even losing beats collecting taxes and paying bills for too long!

If any one wants more understanding please take it to an embassy as it's not really related to this OOC war stats thread!

[Rhizoctonia]

I was once your Emperor, Starfox101, and you should not forget this. Now we both share an Emperor, and we should treat one another as brothers on the battlefield.

Yea Starfox, you better not forget it! Know your damn place, or Tywim will put you in it.

This response from Tywin may be the best I've read. I certainly laughed reading the first sentence. Tywin trying to act tough is funny as hell.

[Starfox101]

To be fair, Polar's culture is kind of confusing. What with the moralist members but the realpolitik gov. It does seem like there could be reason for conflict within Polar. The moralist need to take over and create a democratic system that truly reflects their values.

NpO signing with & protecting evil/raider alliances, going to war for power/fun/on flimsy CBs.. NpO is also an autocratic alliance, ruled by an Emperor. All the while they have people like Tywin calling NpO a beacon of light/moralism and complaining about a God King dictating things

Realpolitik and moralism don't necessarily oppose each other, unless we were allying with, say, Doom Squad for political gain. The only example of realpolitiking in recent times for Polar is the TOP treaty, and TOP is far from an "immoral" alliance. What evil/raider alliance are we protecting? There is no internal conflict in Polar, which is very surprising for a 300 member alliance. I guess it may be a sign of the times that most people are content where they are, and with what they have. All this hope from FTW that they are apparently sowing discontent among Polar by being part of 12 alliances defeating us is laughable. You and Scolar may want to relax a bit.

 

NpO is commonly looked at as one of the most lawful alliances in CN. Autocracy has nothing to do with whether an alliance is moral or not. Especially when the Emperor is looked at as one of the nicest players in the game.

 

unfortunately yes it will happen, when the revolution starts it'll consume all of bob.

Are you okay bro?

 

Yea Starfox, you better not forget it! Know your damn place, or Tywim will put you in it.

This response from Tywin may be the best I've read. I certainly laughed reading the first sentence. Tywin trying to act tough is funny as hell.

I also laughed out loud irl...that was golden.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Starfox101

[Canik]

TOP is far from an "immoral" alliance.

kek
 

What evil/raider alliance are we protecting?

You protected GOONS 2.0 (alongside MK, but still.. you did it)
 

There is no internal conflict in Polar

I know, I just suggested that maybe there should be. Also might I suggest that Tywin lead the charge. :)

 

I'm a moralist by some peoples definition, but not by others. Polar doesn't raid at all, but doesn't try to decide if others should or shouldn't. Polar is very much about doing the right thing by our members and allies. We'd rather lose a war defending an ally in the right than win a war at an allies expense.

We do engage in real politics at times, but only when it benefits our members and allies. We're also honest with the other alliance involved where that happens.

One thing that stands Polar apart from many other alliances though is we will not partake in any coalition or plan that would knowingly involve any ally being attacked.
-snip-

Aside from the no-raid policy that all sounds common place to me. If a couple of alliances break norm, it doesn't necessarily make what you're doing special. :P When a good majority of us are ignoring treaties and there is complete chaos, then it'd set you apart. (That isn't to say NpO is particularly dishonorable either, but I would say you're close to average.)
 

Anyway, I don't  care to repeat the entire discussion we had before. (long before Tywin ever joined NpO)

Just for the clarity of other people reading this;

I think a democracy would keep NpO truer to it's values than the Emperor system. I'm sure my opinion is in the minority and I don't know if anyone in NpO would agree with me.. but that's my personal opinion on it, none the less. If you want to change my mind and don't want to clutter this thread, feel free to PM me.

[The Zigur]

Democracies tend to be abject failures, unless the membership is already active and unified.

[hartfw]

Democracies tend to be abject failures, unless the membership is already active and unified.

 

This is true of most alliances, which come and go, they do well while they're on the winning side and everything is working in their favor but then comes the trials and tribulations, the miscalculations and the losing wars and who is left standing?

[IYIyTh]

 

This is true of most alliances, which come and go, they do well while they're on the winning side and everything is working in their favor but then comes the trials and tribulations, the miscalculations and the losing wars and who is left standing?

 

Sup hart.

[Starfox101]

kek
 

You protected GOONS 2.0 (alongside MK, but still.. you did it)
 

I know, I just suggested that maybe there should be. Also might I suggest that Tywin lead the charge. :)

 

Aside from the no-raid policy that all sounds common place to me. If a couple of alliances break norm, it doesn't necessarily make what you're doing special. :P When a good majority of us are ignoring treaties and there is complete chaos, then it'd set you apart. (That isn't to say NpO is particularly dishonorable either, but I would say you're close to average.)
 

Anyway, I don't  care to repeat the entire discussion we had before. (long before Tywin ever joined NpO)

Just for the clarity of other people reading this;

I think a democracy would keep NpO truer to it's values than the Emperor system. I'm sure my opinion is in the minority and I don't know if anyone in NpO would agree with me.. but that's my personal opinion on it, none the less. If you want to change my mind and don't want to clutter this thread, feel free to PM me.

That GOONS treaty was like 6 years ago. Dig any deeper?

[Konrad Curze]

 

This is true of most alliances, which come and go, they do well while they're on the winning side and everything is working in their favor but then comes the trials and tribulations, the miscalculations and the losing wars and who is left standing?

 

Not the new guys. The ones that have seen it before, been through it and persevered.

[saxasm]

Realpolitik and moralism don't necessarily oppose each other, unless we were allying with, say, Doom Squad for political gain. The only example of realpolitiking in recent times for Polar is the TOP treaty, and TOP is far from an "immoral" alliance. What evil/raider alliance are we protecting? There is no internal conflict in Polar, which is very surprising for a 300 member alliance. I guess it may be a sign of the times that most people are content where they are, and with what they have. All this hope from FTW that they are apparently sowing discontent among Polar by being part of 12 alliances defeating us is laughable. You and Scolar may want to relax a bit.

I find your claim of no internal conflict interesting, since you and Tywin are both in there. I can't imagine that there isn't some people who don't get along.

I also think you overestimate how conflict-prone other alliances are.

[The Zigur]

I find your claim of no internal conflict interesting, since you and Tywin are both in there. I can't imagine that there isn't some people who don't get along.I also think you overestimate how conflict-prone other alliances are.

As a member of an Order yourself you should well understand why there is no internal conflict in NpO this war. Just as there was none in NPO last war.

[Lamorak]

I find your claim of no internal conflict interesting, since you and Tywin are both in there. I can't imagine that there isn't some people who don't get along.

I also think you overestimate how conflict-prone other alliances are.

 

I wouldn't really call it internal conflict if 2 people are arguing on a public forum about stuff from god knows how many years ago that's unrelated to their current alliance.

[Gibsonator21]

You're all dumb. Go marvel at the beautiful destruction stats. Can't wait til I'm contributing to MI6's climb again. :3

[ShadowDragon]

yesterday's update

Day 42 (Nov 7 11pm - Dec 19 6pm)

[Starfox101]

I find your claim of no internal conflict interesting, since you and Tywin are both in there. I can't imagine that there isn't some people who don't get along.

I also think you overestimate how conflict-prone other alliances are.

I've been arguing with Tywin since IAA, which carried over into when we were in Vox, and when he was SNX, Polar, etc. I don't really care if someone is in my alliance. I'm going to call a spade a spade. If that is just terrible internal conflict in the eyes of NPO...well you might want to get out more.

 

Also, do I overestimate how conflict prone others are? I'm pretty sure I stated "I guess it may be a sign of the times that most people are content where they are, and with what they have." which implies that no alliance really have a problem with internal conflicts because nobody really cares.

 

 

I wouldn't really call it internal conflict if 2 people are arguing on a public forum about stuff from god knows how many years ago that's unrelated to their current alliance.

Oh, it's only about 7 years old, no big deal! Def serious internal conflict. Must bring this up with .gov as soon as possible.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

NpO stands out strongly as one of the most moral aa's but the thing about honor is it'll just get you rolled You need to have leadership that is willing to use the same tactics as your enemy even if they are immoral. Governments should do whatever it takes to protect their own members/allies and playing with only honor will only work against that (this even occurs in the real world with all the major nations, they will use all weapons at their disposal to protect their nation and people). While many aa's want to see the bad guys go down, they also don't want to get rolled and the bad guys are forcing them to fight for them with real politics. I like XX/AF but their real politics game is far too weak and almost non-existent, you need to have balance and its in your best interest to play real politics. Change leadership if they don't have the stomach for it or are too inactive but it seems most are part of the "big boys club only" so its assumed nothing much will change. While i respect their positions to conduct their affairs with honor, you're going to eventually just be an alliance or block that more or less follows those who are playing real politics because you won't have much capital left. I don't see any other way to win favorable numbers against a side that will use any weapon at their disposal and have used it to practically win this war and see those who play with only honor get rolled.  We're playing a game here, even in sport, teams will stretch the rules right to its limits to win and if they keep losing or their future looks dem, they change leadership such as coaches, mangers, players. Its almost like you guys don't understand the concept of playing competitively. I actually thought an aa like TOP were the real politic players XX needed but i guess the mk remnants are just too good at the politics side. Everything normally balances out but its hard too see how you'll be able to bring this force down.

[Auctor]

Fundamentally disagree that Polaris hasn't been competitive. They were at the top of this trash heap this time last year. The target on them existed because they did proactive things. They didn't keep the momentum up and they got a bit lost in the weeds on how to proceed from there to an extent, but they've played the resources they have as well as they could.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Fundamentally disagree that Polaris hasn't been competitive. They were at the top of this trash heap this time last year. The target on them existed because they did proactive things. They didn't keep the momentum up and they got a bit lost in the weeds on how to proceed from there to an extent, but they've played the resources they have as well as they could.

But they needed an out spoken threat to play politics. Not all your enemies are going to run around telling everyone that they're going to roll you.

[Dochartaigh]

Woohoo! Go MI6! Loving them stats! We are coming for the top 10!

[The Zigur]

But they needed an out spoken threat to play politics. Not all your enemies are going to run around telling everyone that they're going to roll you.

Thank you, this is true. Polaris is not an alliance that goes about trying to dominate the world. It merely seeks to preserve and defend what goodness remains in the world within and near her own borders. It takes the threat of a God-Tyrant to awaken the civilized world to action. Edited December 20, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[The Zigur]

I would liken Polaris to Minas Tirith, a remnant of the glory of a great ancient civilization, beset on all sides by the forces of darkness.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Thank you, this is true. Polaris is not an alliance that goes about trying to dominate the world. It merely seeks to preserve and defend what goodness remains in the world within and near her own borders. It takes the threat of a God-Tyrant to awaken the civilized world to action.

So you're trying to preserve and defend what goodness remains by doing nothing? You shouldn't need to wait for your enemies to tell the world that they're going to roll you to make you politically proactive. Anyway, you're just a hurdle for the real political players to face off. You'll be fighting for one of these two sides and we both know which side. ^_^ I'd say after the rest of the neutrals have been rolled first though so you should have plenty of time to recover and regain some capital.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Fundamentally disagree that Polaris hasn't been competitive. They were at the top of this trash heap this time last year. The target on them existed because they did proactive things. They didn't keep the momentum up and they got a bit lost in the weeds on how to proceed from there to an extent, but they've played the resources they have as well as they could.

And i didn't say they haven't been playing competitively. Obviously before Disorder, they were very competitive and they took care of the aa that was telling everyone that they'd roll them. But since then, you're right in saying they didn't keep the momentum up. They thought they could do little and no one will touch them but they were wrong and they're still years behind if they think you need a CB to start a global war. The war gets underway (with whatever excuse they can find) as soon as your enemies have the numbers. Its really as simple as that, XX/AF are too honorable to act on nothing but their non-existent actions only stagnant the game. Just move over and let those who are willing to politically outplay their opponents competitively lead the way. 1000's of people rely on that game to be won for them so they can win on the battlefield.

[Dajobo]

If this discussion was not in the stats thread I'd be happy to participate further.