A Message from the Emperor of the New Pacific Order

[The Zigur]

The bottom line is you are advocating reparations on an alliance that is only defending an ally it is treated with.  The fact that said alliance is NPO is blinding you to that very fact.

Your indoctrination is embarassing to ex-Pacificans everywhere.

[Caliph]

NPO's behaviour was to defend NSO when we were attacked. Everything beyond that was of Polar Coalition volition.

 

NPO's behavior was to defend NSO and to do so in such a way to put NPO in as good a position as possible post war by peacing its upper tier.  Unlike in EQ you guys gave up the upper tier and hide it in peace mode.  Why?  To put themselves in a good position post war with having that upper tier strength. 

 

 

 

The bottom line is you are advocating reparations on an alliance that is only defending an ally it is treated with.  The fact that said alliance is NPO is blinding you to that very fact.

 

The bottom line is I have seen all of this before, sometimes at the hands of NPO.  My first alliance here all those years ago got demolished and had what would now be called draconian terms for defending an ally.  In my many years here I have seen numerous examples of alliances losing wars and having to accept terms only for defending an ally.  This is nothing new.

 

All of this white peace has made you lot think anything not white peace is harsh draconian crippling terms.  I have seen terms meant to be harsh and crippling.  All the terms I have heard being negotiated in this war are nowhere near crippling and harsh terms.  Get over yourself..

[Daimos]

 

NPO's behavior was to defend NSO and to do so in such a way to put NPO in as good a position as possible post war by peacing its upper tier.  Unlike in EQ you guys gave up the upper tier and hide it in peace mode.  Why?  To put themselves in a good position post war with having that upper tier strength. 

 

 

 

The bottom line is I have seen all of this before, sometimes at the hands of NPO.  My first alliance here all those years ago got demolished and had what would now be called draconian terms for defending an ally.  In my many years here I have seen numerous examples of alliances losing wars and having to accept terms only for defending an ally.  This is nothing new.

 

All of this white peace has made you lot think anything not white peace is harsh draconian crippling terms.  I have seen terms meant to be harsh and crippling.  All the terms I have heard being negotiated in this war are nowhere near crippling and harsh terms.  Get over yourself..

 

Why does it always comes down to what NPO did to me in the pass?  I have been in NPO close to 5 years (became an official member before the start of Karma) and I do not recall NPO issuing draconian terms in all the years I have been a member. 

 

I think you should be the one that needs to get over yourself.

[Overlord Shinnra]

And that has nothing to do with my point? I'm comparing NPO PM vs NPO war vs NPO terms to illustrate how cushy the deal is for them. That has nothing to do with damage inflicted because that has nothing to do with why this war is still underway.

 

You were comparing NPO PM with NPO war and saying that NPO comes out far ahead with the terms. I'm saying that relative damage makes that a moot point because in a war scenario you are doing comparable damage to your enemy and therefore the deal where you are basically giving away damage for free (the terms) are not cushy.

[Auctor]

So NPO is protecting those at war with them by being in peace mode? :huh:

[ditchboy00]

 

NPO's behavior was to defend NSO and to do so in such a way to put NPO in as good a position as possible post war by peacing its upper tier.  Unlike in EQ you guys gave up the upper tier and hide it in peace mode.  Why?  To put themselves in a good position post war with having that upper tier strength. 

 

 

 

The bottom line is I have seen all of this before, sometimes at the hands of NPO.  My first alliance here all those years ago got demolished and had what would now be called draconian terms for defending an ally.  In my many years here I have seen numerous examples of alliances losing wars and having to accept terms only for defending an ally.  This is nothing new.

 

All of this white peace has made you lot think anything not white peace is harsh draconian crippling terms.  I have seen terms meant to be harsh and crippling.  All the terms I have heard being negotiated in this war are nowhere near crippling and harsh terms.  Get over yourself..

It was pathetic when NSO still held a grudge on NpO for things NpO paid for several times already. I think NPO probably paid for those things by now. Terms are not crippling but the idea of forcing terms on an alliance that wasnt the focal point of the war is just pathetic. Havent seen that since PBO-NpO war. Maybe it was more recent (probably by TOP as they are awful).

 

If the big deal is NPO banks being tech heavy why not just make the terms forcing them to only be able to send cash but not receive any tech. I dont know if it was offered, really dont care as long as Valhalla still is getting shat on.

Edited January 28, 2014 by ditchboy00

[Bob Ilyani]

Anyone who demands so desperately to be respected must not have done enough to earn it.

Well I'm quoting his sig, which in turn is quoting a song lyric, but hey. You know me, always working hard to get others to respect me.

 

On a similar note of "earning respect", what has GATO done in years, aside from being old, inactive, and CN's "first democracy"? Last I've noticed the only thing GATO has done is democratically move from being one person's lapdog to the next. So who are you to talk to me (or anyone else, really) about earning respect?

[Caliph]

 

Why does it always comes down to what NPO did to me in the pass?  I have been in NPO close to 5 years (became an official member before the start of Karma) and I do not recall NPO issuing draconian terms in all the years I have been a member. 

 

I think you should be the one that needs to get over yourself.

 

It doesn't come down to what NPO did to me in the past, it comes down to that I have seen harsh and draconian terms and the terms offered at all stages in this war cannot in any way be considered harsh by those who have seen truly harsh terms.

 

Its like the only violence you have seen is one guy getting punched in the gut one time and then going around telling everyone you know all about the horrors of war because you saw that one piece of violence that one time. 

 

I have seen harsh terms, these terms pale in comparison to truly harsh terms. 
 

[The Zigur]

Its like the only violence you have seen is one guy getting punched in the gut one time and then going around telling everyone you know all about the horrors of war because you saw that one piece of violence that one time. 
 
I have seen harsh terms, these terms pale in comparison to truly harsh terms. 
 

For my part, the forced disbandment and EZI of ancient times helped forge a bridge to the Dark Powers I represent. I dont think extra time in peace mode will allow for anything cool like that for NPO.

[RevolutionaryRebel]

More 'They are all hiding in PM' stuff? Is that really the best you can throw at NPO? I know you can do better.

 

Do some people have to bring back the Overtime Accords every two years to overcome their inferiority complex?

[Dre4mwe4ver]

Well I'm quoting his sig, which in turn is quoting a song lyric, but hey. You know me, always working hard to get others to respect me.
 
On a similar note of "earning respect", what has GATO done in years, aside from being old, inactive, and CN's "first democracy"? Last I've noticed the only thing GATO has done is democratically move from being one person's lapdog to the next. So who are you to talk to me (or anyone else, really) about earning respect?

/me shrugs.

Well, I wasn't talking about you, just referencing that very same sig and song lyric, but if I touched a nerve, by all means, talk it off.

On a similar note of "who am I"? I'm a nobody, of no great history nor significant consequence. So indeed, who am I that you, he who is so bored, would entertain?

[Dochartaigh]

 

Have you really missed all the roll IRON/Val posts from your fellow coalition members? How many similar posts have you seen from our coalition for people fighting on our side. Just because it is inconvenient for you doesn't mean it isn't true.

 

So two alliances=the entire coalition? If that were the case, then obviously your side is ready to surrender immediately since TPF/STA surrendered. 

 

Oh, hey, destroying our upper tier would be the damage I was talking about. Come on Doch, you're better than this.

 

Yet the damage has grown over the past 8 weeks, not just stayed stagnant. 

[Daimos]

 

It doesn't come down to what NPO did to me in the past, it comes down to that I have seen harsh and draconian terms and the terms offered at all stages in this war cannot in any way be considered harsh by those who have seen truly harsh terms.

 

Its like the only violence you have seen is one guy getting punched in the gut one time and then going around telling everyone you know all about the horrors of war because you saw that one piece of violence that one time. 

 

I have seen harsh terms, these terms pale in comparison to truly harsh terms. 
 

 

Just because by your perception that these terms is not harsh does not justify it being issued on an alliance that is only defending a treaty partner.

 

I am curious who in the NpO coalition is pushing for these terms against NPO.  NpO officials have already stated it’s not them...

[Letum]

I come from an era of harsh reps, draconian terms, forced viceroys, and wars that have lasted years with the only terms given to the defeated "disband". 
 
White peace is fine for most alliances, but I also think its fine to impose some sort of terms on the defeated if the situation warrants it. 
 
NPO's behavior this war is, in my opinion, completely self serving (shocking) by hiding such a chunk of its upper tier NS in peace mode for the whole duration.  I've seen warchests and these nations could have come out and fought and if the war ended tommorow would still have had enough cash to send out rebuilding aid.  These nations are not in peace mode because they are "banks", but because NPO wants to produce an upper tier threat with these nations.  NPO will not be crippled if they can't send out aid with those specific nations, and from what I'm hearing that isn't really on the table anymore.
 
NPO is good at propoganda and getting their coalition to think the exact way they do about the terms.  Yet NPO was fine dictating similar terms to my alliance for every one of our members in addition to extended war for all but 8 nations who could be moved to peace mode.  Funny how these terms are suddenly so unacceptable and harsh now, yet it has been proven numerous times how these specific nations won't cripple NPO.  Many alliances have endured harsher terms than this, including NPO, in the past, and these terms have not crippled any of them.

I seem to recall the exact words used in negotiations when terms like these were offered to Umbrella was "This is worse than reps". And that is correct. Restrictions like these are more damaging than reps, as the denial of aid slots covers a larger amount of potential aid loss than using aid slots to pay off what generally qualifies as moderate reps.

As I have stated numerous times, there is nothing morally wrong with harsh terms. People use them to accomplish what they cannot accomplish through war, and that is perfectly fine. However, the defending alliance has every right to reject something so damaging and fight for a better resolution - Umbrella did that, NPO is doing it. Not sure what is so controversial about that. I am not claiming that the Polar coalition is somehow the ultimate evil here, merely putting out the logic that we consider the damage from the current structure of the terms offered to be more costly than just keeping on fighting, so our answer is no.

Whether it is "crippling" or not really depends on how you want to define the term "cripple". Does it mean that the NPO will be utterly destroyed and left helpless in any future war? Of course not. However, a 14-21bn chunk of aid is quite a hefty setback in rebuilding an alliance's lower tier. You can bring over 150 nations up to 4k infra with that. The significance of that is undeniable; now if you want to debate how colourful the language describing it should be, you are going off on a tangent.

[JoshuaR]

Whether it is "crippling" or not really depends on how you want to define the term "cripple". Does it mean that the NPO will be utterly destroyed and left helpless in any future war? Of course not. However, a 14-21bn chunk of aid is quite a hefty setback in rebuilding an alliance's lower tier. You can bring over 150 nations up to 4k infra with that. The significance of that is undeniable; now if you want to debate how colourful the language describing it should be, you are going off on a tangent.

Part of where I lose pity (and never considered your aiding your lower tier as being affected when our coalition came up with the terms) is that even with just a third of your alliance as givers, you can aid $3.6B in a single day. There is still a lot of money to go around. Again, at this point we are talking about exactly thirty-one nations affected by terms directly.

[Link Gaetz]

The seemingly neverending paranoia about NPO on Planet Bob is quite amazing.

[xoindotnler]

I am curious who in the NpO coalition is pushing for these terms against NPO.  NpO officials have already stated it’s not them...

It is me, originally I was aiming for the disbandment of every alliance in the losing coalition but Dajobo waters it down way too much.

 

Maybe we should stop calling it winning and losing and give everyone a medal so we can have the same boring war every year.

Edited January 28, 2014 by xoindotnler

[Joseph26]

 

 

Farrin Xies,
Emperor of the New Pacific Order
The Lone Star Emperor

Red,
Imperial Regent of the New Pacific Order

 

I am glad the war has lasted long enough for me to be in range of Emperor Farrin.  Not because of anything personal against him; I do not know him.  But because of the position he holds.  

 

I received my first nuke and then also noticed something looking at NPO stats and info and sent a message to Emperor Farrin:

 

To: Joseph26    From: Farrin Xies    Date: 1/27/2014 1:01:23 AM

Subject: Nuclear Attack

 

Message: Your nation has been attacked with nuclear weapons by Farrin Xies. You lost 3026 soldiers, 334 defending tanks, 0 cruise missiles, 164.244 miles of land, 14.884 technology, 164.244 infrastructure, 75% of your aircraft, and 25% of your nuclear vulnerable navy force. In addition to these losses your nation will experience many days of economic devastation.

 

 

To: Farrin Xies    From: Joseph26    Date: 1/27/2014 10:39:34 PM

Subject: 8 Years...

 

Message: http://www.cybernations.net/alliance_display.asp?ID=10000

I noticed that the New Pacific Order was created 8 years ago on January 27, 2006 when I was looking at NPO information.

Congratulations to you Emperor Farrin and to the Body Republic of the New Pacific Order.

 

Edited January 28, 2014 by Joseph26

[Caliph]

More 'They are all hiding in PM' stuff? Is that really the best you can throw at NPO? I know you can do better.

 

Do some people have to bring back the Overtime Accords every two years to overcome their inferiority complex?

 

I wasn't attempting to say how evil NPO is for having those nations in peace mode, I was merely stating facts.  NPO is hiding these nations not because they are banks but maintain and build up an upper tier threat.  What will be very telling is how NPO uses these nations' aid slots post war, whether they will really be sending out free aid or if they will resume the tech deals they had before the war started. 

 

NPO putting these nations in peace is a decent enough long term strategy, just don't expect us to now see through it and adopt strategies of our own to counter it. 

 

 

I seem to recall the exact words used in negotiations when terms like these were offered to Umbrella was "This is worse than reps". And that is correct. Restrictions like these are more damaging than reps, as the denial of aid slots covers a larger amount of potential aid loss than using aid slots to pay off what generally qualifies as moderate reps.

As I have stated numerous times, there is nothing morally wrong with harsh terms. People use them to accomplish what they cannot accomplish through war, and that is perfectly fine. However, the defending alliance has every right to reject something so damaging and fight for a better resolution - Umbrella did that, NPO is doing it. Not sure what is so controversial about that. I am not claiming that the Polar coalition is somehow the ultimate evil here, merely putting out the logic that we consider the damage from the current structure of the terms offered to be more costly than just keeping on fighting, so our answer is no.

Whether it is "crippling" or not really depends on how you want to define the term "cripple". Does it mean that the NPO will be utterly destroyed and left helpless in any future war? Of course not. However, a 14-21bn chunk of aid is quite a hefty setback in rebuilding an alliance's lower tier. You can bring over 150 nations up to 4k infra with that. The significance of that is undeniable; now if you want to debate how colourful the language describing it should be, you are going off on a tangent.

 

Given NPO's number of nations, you have the aid slots and cash still in your non PM nations to send out a few billion in aid on day 1 right after you get peace.  Any terms preventing aid for 30 or so nations will not cripple NPO, it will only affect those nations and their tech sellers.  NPO has more than enough cash in its other nations to send out necessary rebuilding aid to get enough nations to an infra level to where they can send out more aid.

 

This isn't really difficult, the only problems would come from people being inactive.  From what I've seen of war screens there are more than enough active NPO members for these particular 30 nations to have a negligable effect on NPO's rebuilding for this war.

[Baldr]

Holy !@#$, I haven't heard something so dumb on the OWF in a while, and that's saying a lot given the contents of this thread.
 
You do understand there are victorious and defeated parties here, yes?

I understand that half of your alliance are hiding in peace mode while demanding that NPO be punished for using peace mode. That makes you a bunch of hypocritical cowards.

[Baldr]

As Caliph argues about how NPO deserves harsh terms because a decade or so ago, they gave out some harsh terms, I thought "I wonder what happened the last time NPO fought agaisnt Umbrella".

Technically, I was just double checking. I was already pretty sure it was white peace.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=116057

Sure enough, white peace, no terms, no penalties. Umbrella said "We lost", and that was it.

[Bob Ilyani]

I understand that half of your alliance are hiding in peace mode while demanding that NPO be punished for using peace mode. That makes you a bunch of hypocritical cowards.

There's literally no point attempting to make you understand the way wars that conclude with victors and losers. Have you ever even looked at a peace treaty before?

[Vol Navy]

They'd be foolish not to, every single war that they lose those nations are targeted for extended war or terms.

 

I wasn't attempting to say how evil NPO is for having those nations in peace mode, I was merely stating facts.  NPO is hiding these nations not because they are banks but maintain and build up an upper tier threat.  What will be very telling is how NPO uses these nations' aid slots post war, whether they will really be sending out free aid or if they will resume the tech deals they had before the war started. 

 

NPO putting these nations in peace is a decent enough long term strategy, just don't expect us to now see through it and adopt strategies of our own to counter it. 

 

 

 

[RedSandman]

 

That makes you a bunch of hypocritical cowards.

 

There is a lot of hypocracy in this thread. But at least it might make it to 500 posts.

[Biff Webster]

Thoughts and prayers NPO bank nations.