RevolutionaryRebel Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I wasn't attempting to say how evil NPO is for having those nations in peace mode, I was merely stating facts. NPO is hiding these nations not because they are banks but maintain and build up an upper tier threat. What will be very telling is how NPO uses these nations' aid slots post war, whether they will really be sending out free aid or if they will resume the tech deals they had before the war started. NPO putting these nations in peace is a decent enough long term strategy, just don't expect us to now see through it and adopt strategies of our own to counter it. Of course; this war isn't SUPPOSED to be about NPO at all, let alone morality. What I see as being the unfortunate situation is that several nations and alliances from the DH coalition are supporting the imposition of terms against NPO, despite knowing how close they came to receiving the same. The best way to avoid 'punitive' peace terms is not to apply them and overreaching with peace terms is a poor long-term strategy. As such, I feel it is not in the best interests of the majority of your coalition. Attacking NPO's ability to rebuild only makes sense if you believe that NPO and its allies will be your mortal enemy for the next year or two. Unless you believe that, backing up those seeking terms don't really make sense. But, what can I say? Long-term strategy has never been TOP's strong suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opportunity Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Next time an alliance on the TOP/NpO side MDPs into a war on the losing side, will they bitch and moan and cry when they are force-fed terms fit for a rogue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) My sense here is that some are operating under the ideal of "fairness" and believe because of the inadequacies of Equilibrium war, that means the same outcome (mistake) should be replicated (despite the fact that NPO had presented harsh terms anyway). It is the equivalent of one chess player losing a rook due to a careless mistake, and the other sacrificing a rook to "make it fair." That is not the purpose of either chess or war. Repeating the mistakes of the past deliberately is the definition of foolishness. Actions have consequences, and it is the duty of an alliance's government to act in the best interests of their member nations, not to act in the interests of weak and nonexistent ideals. The peace mode terms will not cripple NPO, but they will temporarily remove them from relevance. It will be a valuable time for the Order and her allies to reflect on the magnitude of their defeat and do a little soul searching. Edited January 29, 2014 by Tywin Lannister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Next time an alliance on the TOP/NpO side MDPs into a war on the losing side, will they !@#$%* and moan and cry when they are force-fed terms fit for a rogue? That sort of resentment is why terms are so necessary. One cannot advance to the next stage of a plan if the prior stage is left unresolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevolutionaryRebel Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 That sort of resentment is why terms are so necessary. One cannot advance to the next stage of a plan if the prior stage is left unresolved. The point being, that his war's intended conclusion breeds said resentment - not just from NPO itself, but also its allies. NPO isn't being attacked for any higher purpose; you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise. Not that you need any help with being resented, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Pacifica has no bearing on whether we peace out or not. I'm not even going to get into the stupid ass terms argument for the fortieth time but saying that Pacifica is prolonging every front is a falsehood. We're here until you provide the sufficient lifting materials to carry us out with muscle cramps and torn ACLs basically what I'm saying boils down to this: More Weight brah. Who needs more weight brah. Most of your alliances are crushed and the rest are underway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Who needs more weight brah. Most of your alliances are crushed and the rest are underway.You can't make me tap. Oh, it's true. It's damn true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opportunity Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) The point being, that his war's intended conclusion breeds said resentment - not just from NPO itself, but also its allies. NPO isn't being attacked for any higher purpose; you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise. Not that you need any help with being resented, of course. And we aren't even really allies. We're just here to help NG out because we're cool like that. Most of us (okay, ALL of us) at NoR don't really mind extended war and it's no big deal for us if it keeps going. However, I am starting to *gasp* like NPO a bit more every day because of how honorable they have acted in respecting a treaty and not backing down to ridiculous demands. If anything, the TOP/NpO coalition would be better served to white peace out now rather than breed long-term resentment that will do little more than result in a grudge war probably sooner than later. Edited January 29, 2014 by Opportunity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Extortion is extortion whether it's 8 days or 80 days. There is absolutely no extortion involved and you're being completely dishonest in even propagating this nonsense. To put it very simply, nobody is stipulating that the New Pacific Order pay anyone for any reason. There has been absolutely zero mentioning of reparations throughout the length of the negotiations by anyone except you. It's time to stop putting out these false analogies and relaxing the definition of words to fit whatever it is you hope to accomplish here. It's time to take these negotiations seriously and work toward a deal everybody can agree on instead of insisting on grandstanding upon falsehoods. Edited January 29, 2014 by Emperor Marx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 It's time to stop putting out these false analogies and relaxing the definition of words to fit whatever it is you hope to accomplish here. It's time to take these negotiations seriously and work toward a deal everybody can agree on instead of insisting on grandstanding upon falsehoods.Are you going to hold your own side under this microscope or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Are you going to hold your own side under this microscope or no? Nobody can control every poster here. Edited January 29, 2014 by Caliph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malkavian Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Nobody can control every poster here. I'm pretty sure the Admin can do just around anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Nobody can control every poster here.But you can't pretend only one side is using propaganda. Edited January 29, 2014 by Neo Uruk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 The point being, that his war's intended conclusion breeds said resentment - not just from NPO itself, but also its allies. NPO isn't being attacked for any higher purpose; you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise. Not that you need any help with being resented, of course. In a properly executed war, the resentment of the defeated is irrelevant. The idea that a defeated foe will not hold any resentment is a fallacy. To ignore this fact after all the propaganda about oA coalitions and puppetmasters would be madness. The rage and anger over the "oA/aggressor/ebil coalition" doesnt match with "everyone will be friends if there is white peace." You cant expect people to get away with speaking out of both sides of their mouth and not be noticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holy Ruler Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 NPO is on the right here, and NoR stands by them via NG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurnipCruncher Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 As my colleague above says, NPO are doing the right thing here and will not be left on the field without their say so. If we go down this road, every war will be perma-war as it removes the possibility that there is redemption from past mistakes. I put it to you that all AAs have done shitty things to other AAs at some point on Bob. Do we really want to drag through all that every time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalev60 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 There is absolutely no extortion involved and you're being completely dishonest in even propagating this nonsense. To put it very simply, nobody is stipulating that the New Pacific Order pay anyone for any reason. There has been absolutely zero mentioning of reparations throughout the length of the negotiations by anyone except you. It's time to stop putting out these false analogies and relaxing the definition of words to fit whatever it is you hope to accomplish here. It's time to take these negotiations seriously and work toward a deal everybody can agree on instead of insisting on grandstanding upon falsehoods. The only difference i can think of between flat out pay day for "winners" or loser burning their money and restrictions set on aid for certain nations is in pay day scenario losing side will help to make opposite side stronger, on burning money scenario winners can get stronger on their own and the losers will suffer a more slower growth rate. Basically losing side loses on both times, saying a mandarin isn`t an orange may be correct but one can also argue that they are pretty similar things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) These terms are ridiculous, the only solace I get is when half the people enforcing them get burned to the ground next war and we do nothing to help them :| Edit: The best part of all this is that people apparently forget what happened last time Umbrella\GOONS\TOP took NPO out of play through terms. Hey Polar, you think that TOP treaty is going to keep you safe? Ask MHA and Sparta if their Umbrella treaty kept them safe last time... Edited January 29, 2014 by berbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 There is absolutely no extortion involved and you're being completely dishonest in even propagating this nonsense. To put it very simply, nobody is stipulating that the New Pacific Order pay anyone for any reason. There has been absolutely zero mentioning of reparations throughout the length of the negotiations by anyone except you. It's time to stop putting out these false analogies and relaxing the definition of words to fit whatever it is you hope to accomplish here. It's time to take these negotiations seriously and work toward a deal everybody can agree on instead of insisting on grandstanding upon falsehoods. This is really what it comes down to. Farrin is playing all of you and your sympathies in hopes of squeezing days out while your alliances continue to suffer -- when he's just making you dance. Then again y'all knew who you were dealing with before you signed on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 This is really what it comes down to. Farrin is playing all of you and your sympathies in hopes of squeezing days out while your alliances continue to suffer -- when he's just making you dance. Then again y'all knew who you were dealing with before you signed on.Ooh, ooh, let me try!This is really what it comes down to. Centurius/Salajol/Current Popular Brony is playing all of you and your grievances (against NPO or NG or whoever) in hopes of squeezing days out while your alliances continue to suffer -- when he's just making you dance.Then again y'all knew who you were dealing with before you signed on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) These terms are ridiculous, the only solace I get is when half the people enforcing them get burned to the ground next war and we do nothing to help them :| Edit: The best part of all this is that people apparently forget what happened last time Umbrella\GOONS\TOP took NPO out of play through terms. Hey Polar, you think that TOP treaty is going to keep you safe? Ask MHA and Sparta if their Umbrella treaty kept them safe last time... I'm sure you're holding out hope that we'll do something utterly self defeating and idiotic to reverse the sorry positioning you've saddled yourself with. Edited January 29, 2014 by iamthey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krashnaia Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Edit: The best part of all this is that people apparently forget what happened last time Umbrella\GOONS\TOP took NPO out of play through terms. Last time Umbrella\GOONS\TOP took NPO out of play through terms, they got NPO fighting for DH in the next two global wars. So, if I've understood correctly, your line basically breaks down to: "Don't allow ex-DH to enforce terms on us, because you'll be next and we will help them. And by the time you manage to build a coalition strong enough to beat them, we'll backpedal in middle of the war and allow them to escape." Not the most brilliant position to hold, but be my guest. Edited January 29, 2014 by Krashnaia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurnipCruncher Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Then again y'all knew who you were dealing with before you signed on. Umm, not really. We didn't know who we were "dealing with" until your sides made up treaty/oA web showed us your primary target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Let's be completely fair, the only "made up treaty" was LoSS/VE, so it isn't fair to add that into any categorization of their side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusitan Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Hey Polar, you think that TOP treaty is going to keep you safe? Ask MHA and Sparta if their Umbrella treaty kept them safe last time... So, what happened? :) Edited January 29, 2014 by Lusitan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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