A Message from the Emperor of the New Pacific Order

[The Zigur]

Looking at the time stamps seems to support that it was a rage quit, even if Farrin played nice this time.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[Monty of the Herm]

 

Are you sure ALL of NoR don't mind? 62 nations out of 85 in PM... Most have been there for quite a long time mate. Why don't they come out and play?Oh right, if that happens, then NoR's positive damage differential would drop like a friggin rock... "WE LOVE YOU NPO JUST NOT ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY DO MUCH IN THIS WAR ANYMORE BUT !@#$%* ON THE OWF!!!"

 

So why the double standard? If NoR's hiding in PM clearly they have to have punitive terms placed on them as well by your logic. Hypocrisy at it's best!

 

Oh and by your #s 72.9% of NoR is in PM while the nations your coalition are whining about are only 10.95% of our members. SO they should be punished even more by your logic!

Edited January 29, 2014 by Monty of the Herm

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

Skipped after page 4, went directly to the last one, noticed it somehow became about TOP, which is how all threads end nowadays.

 

Appealing to the public only works when a significant portion of said public is undecided and in a position to do something about it. In this case, it's just pointless posturing. 

 

 

As a sidenote, I don't know if it has been pointed out, but using the "14-21 billions" figure is ridiculous for two reasons:

1)It presumes 100% efficiency.

2)It plays on reps numbers (propaganda image) without considering the recent "aid inflation"... of 100%.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Yevgeni Luchenkov

[Auctor]

Every day LoSS exists, it's undergoing cruel terms it can never recover from.

[TurnipCruncher]

 
Are you sure ALL of NoR don't mind? 62 nations out of 85 in PM... Most have been there for quite a long time mate. Why don't they come out and play?Oh right, if that happens, then NoR's positive damage differential would drop like a friggin rock... "WE LOVE YOU NPO JUST NOT ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY DO MUCH IN THIS WAR ANYMORE BUT !@#$%* ON THE OWF

Cycling in and out of PM is a legitimate, and when massively outnumbered, sensible course of action. But of course you know that. Your side seem to hit PM when you have a huge numerical advantage in order to let the meat shields do the heavy lifting. You probably also know that NoR is not allied to or treatied to NPO in any way except through NG. Unless you are deliberately tarding it up in here, go and do some homework before spouting crap.

[Caliph]

Cycling in and out of PM is a legitimate, and when massively outnumbered, sensible course of action. But of course you know that. Your side seem to hit PM when you have a huge numerical advantage in order to let the meat shields do the heavy lifting. You probably also know that NoR is not allied to or treatied to NPO in any way except through NG. Unless you are deliberately tarding it up in here, go and do some homework before spouting crap.

 

You just described NPO.

 

 

 

So why the double standard? If NoR's hiding in PM clearly they have to have punitive terms placed on them as well by your logic. Hypocrisy at it's best!

 

Oh and by your #s 72.9% of NoR is in PM while the nations your coalition are whining about are only 10.95% of our members. SO they should be punished even more by your logic!

 

The difference is NOR brought out its nations to fight.  The nations in question for NPO have not fought at all this war.  Senators aside, there is substantial upper tier strength in peace mode for NPO that has not fought this war.  Most other upper tiers have fought, hense the special treatment for NPO.  NPO is not cycling these nations in and out of peace mode, they have sat in peace this entire war.

 

And get over yourself, you lost, you do not get to dictate terms.  Terms do need to be agreed by all parties, but you do not get to dictate them.  Its like you don't comprehend what losing a war means.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Caliph

[Krashnaia]

 

So why the double standard? If NoR's hiding in PM clearly they have to have punitive terms placed on them as well by your logic. Hypocrisy at it's best!

 

 

Good idea. Let's get coherent and apply the terms to NoR, too.

 

NPO, always caring for the well-being of her coalition mates.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Krashnaia

[TurnipCruncher]

The war doesn't end until the reps situation is resolved and fighting ends. So while it is going poorly for our side, we have not yet lost in the strict sense of the word. And why has TOP kept so much of its upper tier in PM? At least give NPO a tempting target to come out for.

[Caliph]

The war doesn't end until the reps situation is resolved and fighting ends. So while it is going poorly for our side, we have not yet lost in the strict sense of the word. And why has TOP kept so much of its upper tier in PM? At least give NPO a tempting target to come out for.

 

Strategy. if your enemy is keeping upper tiers in peace mode it makes sense to keep a force of your own in peace mode to be able to counter any upper tier blitz.  That is, of course, if NPO is planning to cycle these nations in and out of peace mode, which so far has not been the case.

 

There are not reps for this war, stop toting that lie.

[TurnipCruncher]

 
So why the double standard? If NoR's hiding in PM clearly they have to have punitive terms placed on them as well by your logic. Hypocrisy at it's best!
 
Oh and by your #s 72.9% of NoR is in PM while the nations your coalition are whining about are only 10.95% of our members. SO they should be punished even more by your logic!

NoR were never the main target of the war. Or even any kind of target I imagine, more a bonus for certain people. So there is your answer why.

[TurnipCruncher]

 
Strategy. if your enemy is keeping upper tiers in peace mode it makes sense to keep a force of your own in peace mode to be able to counter any upper tier blitz.  That is, of course, if NPO is planning to cycle these nations in and out of peace mode, which so far has not been the case.
 
There are not reps for this war, stop toting that lie.

BS. You're scared the doombirds might come for you. And the "terms" are equal to reps however you spin it.

[The Zigur]

BS. You're scared the doombirds might come for you. And the "terms" are equal to reps however you spin it.

 

:facepalm:

 

You guys should really leave the propaganda effort to Rayvon and his ilk.

[TurnipCruncher]

 
:facepalm:
 
You guys should really leave the propaganda effort to Rayvon and his ilk.

Have you found an AA who will have you yet? Because this war between the alliances won't last forever, you better jump in one quick if you want to be part of the peace.

[AlmightyGrub]

NoR are irrelevant in every possible way imaginable.  They are not a target, they are not a priority and if they just surrendered and went away no one would notice or care.  However it is not unsurprising to see the Pacifican propaganda machine spinning its crap so fast that it forgets where the line even starts.

 

There are no reps required from anyone.

The only ''penalty'' is to be required to keep on doing what Pacifica has already been doing and by failing to accept the terms will continue to keep on doing voluntarily until they do accept the terms.  The only catch is that apparently no one else will surrender until they do, so Pacifica failing to accept the terms that they have already self-instituted is inconveniencing everyone. 

 

For all the BS in this thread, the matter is really quite simple, Pacifica likes to play loose with the concept of commitment and have a long demonstrated history of this.  Whilst I have no real interest in the terms themselves, perhaps the terms serve as a warning to all alliances, engage in good faith or be penalized if you do not.  It is not anything like requiring nations to exit peace mode to fight arbitrary destruction fests, it is not reps in any way shape or form, it is a penalty of continuance and nothing more.

 

For all the BS in this thread, Farrin is a very arrogant negotiator given his real position and the very real position of his allies.  By all means hate whoever you want to hate, I love being hated, but at some stage you will have to look at who is responsible and eventually if you are at all honest with yourselves, you will answer Farrin, mostly because he is a pompous fool acting on behalf of a collection of pompous fools.

 

Surrender or fight, either way those nations are clearly in peace mode at your own insistence.

[TurnipCruncher]

 
There are no reps required from anyone.
The only ''penalty'' is to be required to keep on doing what Pacifica has already been doing and by failing to accept the terms will continue to keep on doing voluntarily until they do accept the terms.


It is not anything like requiring nations to exit peace mode to fight arbitrary destruction fests, it is not reps in any way shape or form, it is a penalty of continuance and nothing more.
 

 
Surrender or fight.

[brucemania]

I seem to recall the exact words used in negotiations when terms like these were offered to Umbrella was "This is worse than reps". And that is correct. Restrictions like these are more damaging than reps, as the denial of aid slots covers a larger amount of potential aid loss than using aid slots to pay off what generally qualifies as moderate reps.

As I have stated numerous times, there is nothing morally wrong with harsh terms. People use them to accomplish what they cannot accomplish through war, and that is perfectly fine. However, the defending alliance has every right to reject something so damaging and fight for a better resolution - Umbrella did that, NPO is doing it. Not sure what is so controversial about that. I am not claiming that the Polar coalition is somehow the ultimate evil here, merely putting out the logic that we consider the damage from the current structure of the terms offered to be more costly than just keeping on fighting, so our answer is no.

Whether it is "crippling" or not really depends on how you want to define the term "cripple". Does it mean that the NPO will be utterly destroyed and left helpless in any future war? Of course not. However, a 14-21bn chunk of aid is quite a hefty setback in rebuilding an alliance's lower tier. You can bring over 150 nations up to 4k infra with that. The significance of that is undeniable; now if you want to debate how colourful the language describing it should be, you are going off on a tangent.

 

Man a person with a real education ... and to add considering the size of NPO and the fact most of our upper tier was actually warring and the damage we have taken ... we have had at least 150 nations fighting, hence the amount of Damage for you stats people. How many of the other Coalitions actually have 150 nations in them that have been fighting.

[Stewie]

Surrender or fight, either way those nations are clearly in peace mode at your own insistence.

As are yours. Edited January 29, 2014 by Stewie

[iamthey]

So why the double standard? If NoR's hiding in PM clearly they have to have punitive terms placed on them as well by your logic. Hypocrisy at it's best!
 
Oh and by your #s 72.9% of NoR is in PM while the nations your coalition are whining about are only 10.95% of our members. SO they should be punished even more by your logic!

itt NPO wants all its allies to also be 'punished'.

NoR were never the main target of the war. Or even any kind of target I imagine, more a bonus for certain people. So there is your answer why.

What are you attempting to accomplish with this? Are you simply waiting for someone in our ranks to slip and allow you to extract a '[ooc]game[/ooc] changing' admission on one of your irrelevant rhetorical points? If that happens what do you intend to do with it? Will you run back to the coalition channel smug and self righteous, affirmed in some ephemeral moral high ground your side must surely hold- will anyone even remember the admission? This entire process is silly, and unless you're doing it purely for therapeutic reasons I'd advise you to stop.

In either case, you all have played the martyr this entire war- shamelessly trotting out every stale line losing coalitions have thrown about since GWI. We've all said these things when defeated, and we've all rolled our eyes when they were returned. The community is far too cynical at this point for an appeal like that.

Why'd NPO want peace when clearly they're winning, haven't you guys seen their damage dealt/ damage taken ratio. Everyone else on their side are probably screaming for peace though but this isn't about them so no peace for NpO and co, eternal war is the only offer you're getting.

NPO is achieving superior damage output because their force is clustered in the 10k range. Their use of PM in the upper tier has also precluded them from receiving the efficient/expensive damage that everyone else in their coalition has received. Given that the bulk of their damage has been dealt in the lower ranges I also suspect the price/economically corrected figures (that scale up and down with the value of what is being destroyed) would show a much lower (possibly irrelevant) damage value comparable to the overall damage of the war.

[TurnipCruncher]

Thanks for the advice. But no thanks.

[Bob Ilyani]

 

Man a person with a real education ... and to add considering the size of NPO and the fact most of our upper tier was actually warring and the damage we have taken ... we have had at least 150 nations fighting, hence the amount of Damage for you stats people. How many of the other Coalitions actually have 150 nations in them that have been fighting.

Except for, you know, the 30 or so that haven't been, nor have they fought for the entire war. May be easy for you to forget them, but you better know that we haven't.

[Crymson]

So A tl;dr of this thread - It's all the TOP shadow government's fault.

 

And we would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for that meddling Stewie!

Edited January 29, 2014 by Crymson

[Stewie]

 

And we would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for that meddling Stewie!

 

Known you too long Crymson ;)

[Caliph]

BS. You're scared the doombirds might come for you. And the "terms" are equal to reps however you spin it.

 

The Doombirds are my friends, why would I be scared of them?

 

You sure do move the takling points around as soon as you are called out so you can move to the next propoganda item, and when you are called out on that one you move the talking points around again in the hopes that people will forget how every single one of your talking points has been proven incorrect or is irrelevant.

 

These terms are not reps, they would simply be effectively continuing the state of affairs that these nations are willing performing at this moment and have been performing since October. 

 

If we did translate the lost slot usage to rep figures, even then this cost would not equal the amount of damage 1 of our upper tier nations has taken this war.   All things considered, even if these were rep terms (which they are not), this would be incredibly light.  The fact that these are not reps, but rather a continuation of NPO's current policy regarding specifically these nations.

 

I get that you have to stick with your party line in criticizing these terms as the most evil and cripplingly harsh terms ever in the whole of existence, but really they are not, alliances better than yours have bounced back after receiveing harsher terms than these and have become movers and shakers in politics here again.  Stop being so melodramatic.

[Alterego]

God speed NPO

[RedSandman]

 

These terms are not reps, they would simply be effectively continuing the state of affairs that these nations are willing performing at this moment and have been performing since October.

 

Yet another person who is wrong.

 

These terms are reparations because they are conditions being imposed by a group of alliances on another alliance for punishment or atonement for how that alliance behaved during the war. Reparations are not necessarily requests for material or financial gain.

Edited January 29, 2014 by RedSandman