Monty of the Herm

Apparently people have a really hard time understanding the overall point I was making by questioning parts of what I originally said which still make my original post completely valid. So maybe reiterating my point a third time will do the trick. There is a long-standing precedent on Planet Bob where wars have been started with extremely shoddy CB's with no substantive reason beyond simple dislike of an alliance or utter boredom. Even if this CB were simply for tech being sent it is a more substantive justification for war than simply dislike or boredom. Whether things have softened over time doesn't mean that there isn't precedent on Planet Bob for far less justifiable CB's.

My main point wasn't really the aid being an act of war, moreso pointing out how there is a long history of precedent for this type of CB and that there is precedent for CB's with much less cause behind them other than mere dislike or boredom. In comparison to those CB's this has more substantive justification IC than a lot of other wars in the history of Planet Bob.

The 4000 soldiers does make for a pretty blatant and obvious act of war, but even if it were strictly a tech deal it still is just as much an act of war nonetheless. Tech enhances a nation's fighting capability and ability to inflict damage on an opponent. This is a very clearcut CB with probably close to a decade of precedent on Planet Bob. It's a lot stronger CB than several wars in the past where the entire CB was "we don't like you" and nothing more. Oh yeah and it's good to see a DoW finally done in honor of me... To Camelot!!! o/

In reality it's just some spin both ways, and I doubt either is going to be very persuasive to those who hold differing opinions to themselves either way. In reality the truth is somewhere in the middle, but hey then again I'm in the alliance that even up until a couple of wars ago was still being held responsible for actions our forebears took well over half a decade ago (pre-Karma) so who am I to point out spin when I see it? I'm just a puppet of the ebil NPO afterall. At least with the points each of these two are making they're staying close to within half a decade of our present time right now.

I'm not bragging about anything just pointing out utter fallacies in his rhetoric. It doesn't matter if we didn't have a choice in those wars. Both wars were meant to utterly destroy us, and we're still here regardless. Only two thirds of DH are still around, and we've outlasted about 70-80% of the Karma Coalition as well. So I'm pretty sure we'll be fine either way, at least we accept responsibility for when we've made bad decisions.

I'm pretty sure we didn't have to have any assistance fighting Minc in the last war and last time I checked we fought DH by ourselves back in the DH/NPO War so I'm not exactly sure what basis you have to claim we only fight in wars where we have extreme number advantages, not to mention fighting off 26 alliances with TPF in the Karma War, but hey it doesn't exactly help your rhetoric to point out actual facts now does it?

As sad as I am to see it come to this it is really unfortunate TPF had to go out with a temper tantrum, and not accept responsibility for it's own actions. At least when we've made bad decisions we've owned up to them and paid dearly for them pretty much every time. I guess hoping TPF could do the same was too much to expect. Regardless happy hunting TPF! o/

I don't entirely agree with this analysis simply due to the fact that improvements have been made to make it much more profitable for newer nations to sell tech simply by doubling the amount of money which can be sent in a single aid slot. Personally I remember selling three slots of tech for half the amount you can send in money in a single aid slot now. I was still able to grow out of that situation to become part of the mid to upper tier of the game and newer nations have a much more accelerated ability to grow than before these changes were made.

You do realize Brehon resigned as Emperor right after EQ ended in April of 2013 over two and a half years ago so you're just proving my point. We've had two Emperors since then and Oculus wasn't even a consideration in it's entirety until Letum became Emperor as far as I know. So our relationship was deteriorating well before Oculus was being formed. CN is a political game so now you have issues with alliances utilizing diplomacy to better our position within the game? If that's your issue then I don't exactly see the point of continuing to play a political game. We went head-to-head with DH for years, finally after kicking each other's teeth in multiple times we realized that we both really respected each other (specifically Umbrella and NPO) and our high level of motivation and ambition within CN so we finally let bygones be bygones. If that's your issue then I would suggest stop living so much in the past.

Our relationship with TPF had been deteriorating for a couple of years before we finally cancelled the treaty. Way before Oculus was ever close to forming.

This is hilarious you keep thumping your chest for fighting for a week. That's an utter joke. At least TPF fought it out for at least a month in Disorder since apparently that topic's open for discussion. NPO had a positive damage ratio in Disorder for most, if not the entire war as well, but we don't thump our chests about how we "won" that war. If you're so confident about how strong you are as an AA, and since the peace term you accepted when you backed out of the war after a week are now over since the conflict with MI6, TPF, and STA is over you're not exactly backing up any of your "bravado" with any substance. Otherwise you would've answered my comrade's question earlier and done something to actually back up all your hot air you spout here: As it is you're just a windbag who doesn't back up anything you actually claim with all your chest thumping.

Agreeing to not reenter the war after barely even going one round in the war isn't "winning". You accepted terms to get out, you didn't win anything.

We haven't burned enough? Why? Because we're back in a position of power again after more than 6 years of struggle to get back to where we were before Karma? When you say, "what he doesn't grasp is that NPOs top tier would actually have to burn- and let's face it... people like Malstrom Vortex would actually have to burn, you know, the idiot who always screams he 'loves war'...." you're implying we don't know what it means to burn and we haven't been rolled in the past where our top tier has burned numerous times and was forced to pay out reparations that were more accounted for more NS than we had in the war when it started. We were forced to zero tech as an alliance and beyond. Sure TPF was one of our strongest supporters through all of that when we were ebil, and apparently from how much you're spewing we're back to being ebil again, but there is actual legitimate reasons behind this conflict. The reason TPF was preempted was out of respect for the fact that we know just how loyal TPF are as allies and that they would've joined this conflict on their own terms regardless of how much MI6 tried to get them to stay out of it. And now you don't really have any part in this conflict since you accepted the no reentry clause of the terms Oculus gave you so I don't see how you're relevant to this conflict at all at this point since you bowed out after barely eight days of actual fighting.

I was pointing out the fact that NPO's burned numerous times which for some reason you had no clue about in your post I responded to. Sure we were ebil, but we had allies like TPF you're so gallantly defending now right alongside us at the time and their good reputation was built burning with us when few others would so you dragged TPF's reputation through the mud by claiming NPO doesn't know what it means to burn or get rolled.

I don't think there can ever be anything compared to what Karma was now since Planet Bob is barely a third of the size it was when Karma happened... So good luck trying to triple the number of nations on Planet Bob to pull that one off.

Now you're just showing how young and oblivious you are... If anyone knows what it means to burn on Planet Bob it's the NPO. We were rolled by 26 different alliances in Karma for about four months then forced to pay reparations for another nine months after that with just the tech reparations from that being the equivalent of 120% of our NS before that war ever started. Then we burned again in DH, then again in Disorder. Most of TPF's good reputation was built from standing by our side while we burned when no one else would. So you really just need to call it a day... seriously. You're not helping yourself or the people you're trying to support by bashing their own reputation.

I find it hilarious that you didn't have an actual counter to my statement about NPO not rolling AA's on a whim since pre-Karma, you just went off because we have reason to be fighting you and your only response is to question why we don't hit our own allies. To my knowledge (not speaking in any official government capacity) NG doesn't actively poach members from other AAs. As our ally they actually listen to our input on actions (ie when they wanted to attack Polar right after EQ we told them it wasn't a good idea and so they didn't). So we don't really have a reason to end our treaty with NG much less roll them either.

Oh and EQ too. I wasn't talking about whether terms were justified just giving examples of more messy, longer wars where harsher terms were imposed. I find it rather funny that people are accusing us of destroying "tons of smaller AAs" just for the heck of it like we did pre-Karma when each war the NPO's been in since Karma had legitimate reasons behind them. The last war was in retaliation for Disorder, this war is in response to MI6's bad behavior as an AA and generally how they handle themselves in Bob. The NPO hasn't just stomped AAs on a whim since pre-Karma. The only issue this war has been how we handled the CB on TPF other than that it's been rather straightforward and fairly justifiable, but even the preempt on TPF was because we knew even if TPF was told by MI6 to stay out of this they would've defended them anyways, because we know who they are as allies, and they don't let their allies burn alone. That's who TPF are, loyal.

Also ending conflicts with "white peace" enables conflicts to end more efficiently since it takes a lot longer to end wars with harsher terms (ie Karma, Disorder etc.)

The whole "white peace" term is just a way for both sides to come out looking better in the wash. In reality all it is is both sides agreeing to end their conflict without further repercussions, but every single "white peace" the side with the larger numbers always places the no reentry term into the "white peace" so at best it's an "off-white peace" where the the larger entity is having the smaller one surrender and not continue fighting in any phase of the conflict. By calling it "white peace" it makes the winning side seem more gracious and lenient and gives the losing side more room to try to save face with. It just gets ridiculous when the losing side starts beating it's chest over semantics that were only meant to have the conflict end more leniently than enforcing harsher terms.

Bilrow has just as much experience being a viceroy if not more than you do. Exactly how do you think he became the most hated player in CN?

So Oculus was DoWed by Minc, but it's NPO who's not letting Minc go? I'm really confused now... What does NPO have to do with any of this other than the fact that Minc has declared offensive wars on us as an "emphasis"? Minc declared on Oculus as a whole not just NPO... :psyduck:

I think he's probably referring to Polar cancelling it's protectorate with Minc, but yeah not really sure how that really has anything to do with them avoiding getting rolled, that's just them cutting ties with a brash reckless ally who, for the time being, isn't worthy of their protection. If people wanted to roll Polar they probably could regardless of whether they cancel one treaty or not (ie the last war).

I'm not exactly sure how TPF could've protected us from wars while we were under the Karma Coalition terms since one of Karma's terms was we had to cancel all our treaties... The only treaty that wasn't officially cancelled at the time was a NAP we had with IRON from early in the game that for some reason went unnoticed by the Karma Coalition.

We completed paying the Karma reparations in May of 2010.