Upper End of the War

[Mogar]

Longer rebuilding time just reinforces my point further. EQ is going to have an even longer wait trying to get top tier nations again.

 

 

Also, gl ever trying to rebuild above 100k. lol

neither of you seems to dispute the point you can only win at 100k+ range, everyone below that belongs to us, and in a war of attrition, we've got 3 times the numbers in the range that you do, i get to collect without being in nuclear anarchy, how many of your alliance mates below 100k can say the same?

[hapapants]

I'm still not too concerned about 20-30+ nations. That's like OBR and Creole trying to turn the tides of an otherwise lopsided global war. It's debatable how much this upper tier superiority will expand. But keep in mind that some of these nations are simply going to end up out of range of anyone in EQ. And the lower you try to expand the range of dominance, the more you're going to run into EQ's number advantage.

 

Sure 20-30 nations isn't a huge problem right now.  The problem is that the number has been growing.  The # of unchecked nations has gone from 6 nations to 30 in 3 weeks.  Where will we be in another 3 weeks?  The problem is that the longer this war goes on, the worse and worse the high-tier situation will get for EQ.  

 

 

I readily acknowledge that EQ has failed to completely topple the DH upper tier, and lack the resoruces to bring them down into range and keep them staggered at this point. But from what I'm seeing, it looks like EQ has erroded DH enough to make EQ's overall victory credible. Victory will be determined through NS losses, WC's, and political will. If EQ had kept their upper tier in PM and tried to avoid facing the DH upper tier, we might arrive at the same result, but it would lack the credibility that they've build by dragging so many people down. 

 

I agree with you that this is a numbers game, but you're focusing on the wrong numbers.  Tech is the name of the game in this war.  The entire purpose of the EQ coalition was to close the tech gap between DH and the rest of the globe, so that alliances like NPO/AI/etc won't have to peace out their entire upper tier in future global wars in fear of Umbrella.  This is what makes the upper-tier conflict so important; tech lost in high-tier combat takes years to rebuild, and EQ is hemorrhaging tech at these levels.  

 

If things continue as they are, EQ will be in an even worse upper-tier situation than before.

 

30+ nations that escaped aren't going to take much away from that, and the failure to equalize the tech disparity can be addressed through targeted reps (e.g., "Pay 250k tech from nations with 10k tech or more).

 

I wouldn't count on reps.  What do you think is more likely... that DH will cede their trump-card, or just continue to beat down the high-tiers?

[Drai]

neither of you seems to dispute the point you can only win at 100k+ range, everyone below that belongs to us, and in a war of attrition, we've got 3 times the numbers in the range that you do, i get to collect without being in nuclear anarchy, how many of your alliance mates below 100k can say the same?

I don't dispute what you're saying for the duration of the war (I've already explained why i feel we have an advantage in the rebuilding part). It just means we have different ideas of what a statistical victory is.

 

Edit: The damage done in the sub-100k range also probably lies in our favour as we have the ability to nuke more than 1 nation if you're 3v1ing us. I know SDIs make that much more balanced but the situation still gives us a bit of an edge in damage output.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Drai

[kwell]

I figured today's update would be slightly different (I'll run the war wide stats later in the week).  Rather today I decided to take a bit of a closer look at the state of large DH nations.

 

Umbrella

 

CubaQuerida

To begin with, Umbrella's largest nation and king of the massively overpowered nuke, CubaQuerida is in peace mode.  Well at least until he ends up with 11 nuclear weapons.  In fact Cuba is not all that interesting, he's big, he's mean, and he just finished up an extremely destructive war with BubblerNation. For EQ though it isn't a great sign that Cuba was allowed to hop into peace mode and restock his nukes. Anyway, moving on to the war mode nations.

magicalbricks

To begin with we have magicalbricks and his angry cat war face.  Bricks is currently 188k NS and engaged solely in offensive actions against two EQ nations.  Arcticllama of the Dark Templar and danhawk of TIO.  Bricks' war with Llama runs from 2/5 to 2/13 and the damage favors Bricks, he's done 10k to Llama's 4k.  Bricks is down 196 tech, Llama is down 400 tech.  Danhawk's war is even more in favor of bricks.  He's done 15k in damage compared to 1.2k done by Dan.  What is even more impressive if bricks has lost 40 tech, Dan has lost 647 tech.  The land exchange is even uglier.  By the way, at the time of writing this, Danhawk has no other wars.  

 

 

 

Noob Cake

Moving on to the next Umbrella nation, Noob Cake, he is engaged in three offensive wars and no defensive wars.  At 137k Noob Cake is fighting nations from Dark Templar, Argent, and NATO.  The Argent nation is doing comparable damage to Noob Cake, but the other two wars are heavily in Noob Cake's favor currently.  

 

GrandPoobar

The fourth strongest Umbrella nation, Poobar is also engaged in three offensive operations.  He's attacking a GLOF nation, a Dark Templar Nation, and a NATO nation.  Poobar is enjoying favorable damage exchanges (at least 2:1) in all three wars.  I'd take some screenshots of them, but then it would take me all day to do this, sorry guys.

 

Iherud

The fifth strongest Umbrella nation, at 135k NS, is also engaged solely in offensive operations.  Iherud is hitting Dark Templar, IRON, and TIO.   All damages are favorable to Iherud in at least 3:1, if not better.  

 

 

JoshuaR 

Reaching JoshuaR we find the first Umbrella nation who has an active defensive slot.  On 7 Feb DevastationStation of IRON attacked JoshuaR.  Things have been going well for DevastationStation, he's lost 5k strength compared to JoshuaR's 15k loss.  The tech exchange also benefits DevastationStation, he's lost 180 to JoshuaR's 734.  For the record though, DevastationStation is suffering heavy losses against Xavii of Umbrella.  JosshuaR's other war is going swimmingly well for for them, as he is fighting Globetrotter of TPF and JoshuaR has lost 0 NS since he declared on 2 Feb. Globetrotter has lost 25k NS. He has no other wars.

 

 

I assume Globetrotter is inactive, but still, wow.  JodhuaR found himself an upper tier tech raid in the midst of a global war...

 

Xavii

Xavii is the first war mode Umbrella nation I've found who has no offensive wars.  Xavii is the 7th strongest Umbrella nation and currently has 116k NS.  The damage exchange rates are favoring Xavii, and he has lost ~19k NS since the wars started on 7 Feb.  As a side note Xavii is fighting the same IRON nation as JoshuaR and has a much more favorable damage rate, so I assume Xavii is the Umbrella nation firing nukes at him.

 

J2TheD

Like Xavii, J2TheD has a pair of his defensive slots filled.  He is currently at 109k NS.  Against one IRON nation he is losing NS at a 1:1 ratio, the other war is in his favor by about 9:1.  DarkFox, the IRON nation performing at 1:1 against J2TheD, went from 79k on 3 Feb to 94k on 4 Feb.  He declared on J2TheD on 5 Feb.  This has really been what I was looking for, EQ nations having to buy up to remain in contact.  For the previous Umbrella nations I was looking at the people attacking them and trying to find NS spikes prior to a DoW, this is the first one I've found.  

 

What is interesting here is DarkFox has dropped back down to 78k, so at the end of this war he'd have to repeat the rebuy to engage any Umbrella nation over 103k.  

 

Kill Joy

The number nine Umbrella nation, at 107k, has a pair of CoJ nations on him from 4 Feb and 6 Feb.  Kill Joy is on the losing end of the strength exchange of both of those wars, although the only war where CoJ has managed a exchange rate above 2:1 is a war where Kill Joy has lost 8k NS and Yamin Auk Zafar has lost 3k NS.

 

What I find again though is an IRON nation who had to buy up.  In this case Lokvear of IRON engaged Kill Joy (and Natan) on 11 Feb.  On 6 Feb Lokvear went from 43k NS to 78k NS.  His NS chart then rises slowly, which I assume is from military purchases, until he reaches 82k NS and engages Kill Joy and Lokvear today.  

 

Irons82

The number 10 Umbrella nation features no defensive wars.  He's fighting one IRON nation, a Dark Templar nation, and a TPF nation.  The Dark Templar war is notable in that Irons82 has a 5:1 damage ratio.  The other two damage ratios are hovering in the 1:1 area, slightly favoring Irons.  

 

Kwell

The number 11 Umbrella nation is under attack by one IRON nation.  That IRON nation, Falcon IV, has dropped from 99k to 67k over the course of the war.  Falcon IV is at war with another Umbrella nation as well.  Kwell has lost 6k NS.  

 

Rardie

Radie is 98k NS and has three nations engaging him.  Two Molon Labe and one NATO.  Sixgun, the first ML nation to engage, declared on 6 Feb.  On 5 Feb, Sixgun went from 82k NS to 88k NS.  Aggierebel96, the second ML nation, declared on 9 Feb.  On 3 Feb he went from 74k to 92k NS.  The NATO nation, gpn777 is a larger nation who has just been getting smaller as the war goes on.

 

threefingeredguy

Threefingeredguy is the 13th largest Umbrella nation and currently fighting two defensive wars.  His war with Souleater of RnR is a 1:1 damage exchange, but Onion of Argent has done 17k damage versus 4k damage done by threefingeredguy.  

 

I cut off my Umbrella monitoring here.  At this point smaller EQ nations can engage from the 60k to 70k NS range without needing to buy up.  However based on the above this is what I come up with for the top Umbrella nations:

 

12 War Mode/1 Peace Mode: 36 open defensive slots

Defensive Slots Filled: 14 

Defensive Slots By Nations That Had To Buy Up:  3 

 

Now this is a small sample size, but looking at this upper tier you see nations who have no defensive wars and can pick and chose their targets.  EQ only has 38.9% of the defensive slots filled here.  Out of those slots filled, 21.4% required a nation to buy up and engage, which is a warchest draining activity.  

 

Doombird Doomcave

Doombird Doomcave has 11 more nations over 100k NS, with 6 of them in war mode.  The largest, Methax, has no wars and is restocking nukes.  From the remaining five the highlights are:

 

lebubu

All offensive wars, two of them in his favor.  The third a 1:1 tie with acticllama (although they've each just lost ~600 NS).  

 

pudge1975

Two offensive wars, no defensive wars.  Both wars are in his favor by ~2:1.

 

TBRaiders

Three offensive wars, two in his favor, one in the favor of NEW.

 

WhatOnceWas

Three offensive wars, all in his favor.

 

Marcus Bellator

Two defensive wars.  Both wars are in Marcus Bellator's favor.  

 

So for the Doomcave we have:

 

18 Defensive Slots

2 Defensive Slots Taken (22%)

No buy ups to engage.  

 

Mushroom Kingdom

 

MK Top 10: 5 in war mode, 15 Total Defensive Slots

1 Defensive Slot Taken (7%)

No buy ups to engage

 

If you dig around enough, you can find buyups on the MK front as well.  Kryievla went from 55 to 76k and is Drai of MK's sole defensive war.  None in the top ten though.  

 

The Big Picture

When you sum up the sample I've taken here you see:

69 total defensive slots

17 defensive slots taken (25%)

3 buy ups to engage (17% of the wars declared)

 

So the good thing for EQ is they haven't had to order a lot of buy ups to engage the upper tier, of the course the bad thing is they're not really engaging the upper tier.  Umbrella now has a number of offensive wars against EQ forces that started out the war on the 'TOP Front'.  Other large Doomhouse nations have cycled into peace mode to rearm, get out of anarchy, and do whatever else they want.  Some of the largest DH nations feel so confident they won't be attacked they're sitting in war mode and rebuying their nukes.  

 

Now I picked the DH front to perform this sample, because this was the front where fighting began and EQ was able to array their pick of nations and I was curious to see how that was playing out.  IRON is the most active of the original five right now, while the NPO and AI are not major factors this high up.  DH seems to be focusing its offensive wars on TIO, NATO, and people from the TOP Front as opposed to down declaring.  

 

Even where DH is being attacked, its always the bottom of their top ten.  The big guys with massive tech stockpiles are just hanging out and conducting solely offensive operations.  It appears as if Doomhouse has reached a point where they have 25+ nations that are free to cycle in and out of peace mode to rearm and conduct offensive operations at will.  It is also important to keep in mind I didn't even look at VE or Mortal Wombat who are also engaged on this front.  

 

As to what those offensive operations are, some focus appears to be on TIO and NATO, mostly by MK nations.  Umbrella nations from this sample appear to be focusing on pulling some heat off TOP.  I likely sound a bit like a broken record, but when your strategic goal in this war was to end the Umbrella tech stockpile but the war plays out such that the largest Umbrella nations are conducting operations on their terms, that isn't a good sign.  

 

The other issue this brings up is the long term viability of the shark tank.  The biggest DH nations seem to be cruising around right now and clearing out any EQ nations that are hanging around in dark corners.  The moment you've cleared out everything big, you can order your nations in the shark tank to buy infra and jump clear.  Yevengi Luchenkov summed up that option very concisely.  EQ can of course also buy up, but with EQ having a lesser tech stockpile they'll need more infra to reach the same level.  

 

One of the angles with DMZ and tech dealing that I think has been overlooked is if DH might actually be able to clear a safe zone for their tech sellers.  In the sub 6k NS range, millions in aid and thousands of soldiers can be decisive.  So small GOONS and Deinos nations can take in 15 million and 10k in soldiers, go rampaging around and send tech back up to larger nations.  If FACs are purchased, even more money can move down.  As long as the small nations are careful not to grow into the range of EQ nations with military wonders who dropped in NS, they'll be fine.  EQ can of course counter with its own aid packets, but that point EQ is double dipping in terms of warchest drain since they need to purchase infra and fund the ground wars between the tech sellers.  It also opens the door to make it easier to jump out of the shark tank.  A DH nation can buy infra/land/whatever to gain NS and then cap it off by accepting 300 tech in foreign aid to jump clear and bump their damage modifier back up. 

Hey, I got mentioned :-)  I would also like to point out that I've done nearly double the damage I've taken in all 8 of my wars.  If that isn't a victory, I don't know what is. 

[Unknown Smurf]

But everything under 80k takes all of what, 6 months to rebuild? To get to 100k+ can take at least a year, or 3.

 

A lot of the nations you have brought down and included in the '1700' have warchests that will allow them to easily rebuild. They have also proven to be more active at buying tech and will inevitably reach the top tier faster than most on the EQ side.

 

I disagree, NPO IRON and AI all had higher slot efficiency than Umbrella or MK going into the war. In fact Umbs aid slot % has never been higher than 50% since Roq left. Yes it is higher than any of those 3 now (hovering around 40%), but I think that has more to do with being on the smaller side of the war and having to fund GOONS. (Fun fact Umbrella has already moved almost 700 mill to GOONS this war -- 669mill to be exact). 

 

Sure 20-30 nations isn't a huge problem right now.  The problem is that the number has been growing.  The # of unchecked nations has gone from 6 nations to 30 in 3 weeks.  Where will we be in another 3 weeks?  The problem is that the longer this war goes on, the worse and worse the high-tier situation will get for EQ.

 

That number is not growing, its just that the ones who left the AA weren't tracked in this thread until recently. Also you have to take into account the nations from NG who entered the war (less than 2 weeks ago) inflating this number.

[Xavii]

you cant sit here and pretend we havent cost your upper tier nations billions as well, you just happened to have a great deal more of them than we did, and those 30 or so nations can enjoy their super tier status while we grind the rest of you into submission.

I have used a few billions sure, but soon there won't be anyone left to stagger me, and I can start rebuilding.

 

Meanwhile many of our other nations can jump back up from the sharktank using their warchest. Sure, eQ can do the same but since we already "own" the top tier our supernations will send them back with 2-3k less tech.

 

Those who are too low to be saved have already accepted their fate. Especially in Umbrella.

Have all of your people done the same? Is the goal for you're nations to reach 80k NS and stop there?

[Drai]

I disagree, NPO IRON and AI all had higher slot efficiency than Umbrella or MK going into the war. In fact Umbs aid slot % has never been higher than 50% since Roq left. Yes it is higher than any of those 3 now (hovering around 40%), but I think that has more to do with being on the smaller side of the war and having to fund GOONS. (Fun fact Umbrella has already moved almost 700 mill to GOONS this war -- 669mill to be exact). 

 

 

That number is not growing, its just that the ones who left the AA weren't tracked in this thread until recently. Also you have to take into account the nations from NG who entered the war (less than 2 weeks ago) inflating this number.

MK had the highest of any alliance above 100 nations for a while (since King Brandon took over the Treasury) so I don't know where you're getting your numbers from. Umb has consistently been above 35%, often above 40%. AI never had anything like that, although NPO was always pretty good. I'm not sure completely about IRON but I think they were somewhere between AI and NPO. Then take a look at TIO, they were rarely pushing 20%.

[shahenshah]

Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz, on 12 Feb 2013 - 01:31, said:
Also, gl ever trying to rebuild above 100k. lol

Well in that case it would be gl building anything below 100k lol. :)

Drai, your top tier nations will be busy rebuilding everyone for a long time while everyone else is busy buying/fed tech. Tech gap overall will be alot less between the overall sides as you continue relatively longer rebuild then us in general.

As for nuking in sub-100, the nukes are running out, the damage output is considerably low as compared to first round, cant even hit all in 1 day, at best its 2 per day, at worst its 0. so on avg its one guy getting nuked. Damage output falls, the longer this continues, the more it falls as tech slides and there are plenty of nations to replace and restock. Edited February 11, 2013 by shahenshah

[Drai]

Well in that case it would be gl building anything below 100k lol. :)

Drai, your top tier nations will be busy rebuilding everyone for a long time while everyone else is busy buying/fed tech. Tech gap overall will be alot less between the overall sides as you continue relatively longer rebuild then us in general.

As for nuking in sub-100, the nukes are running out, the damage output is considerably low as compared to first round, cant even hit all in 1 day, at best its 2 per day, at worst its 0. so on avg its one guy getting nuked. Damage output falls, the longer this continues, the more it falls as tech slides and there are plenty of nations to replace and restock.

We can't get the bronze medal because we've already secured the gold. Darn, looks like we're losing out there!

 

So are you just ignoring your lower tier nations post-war then? You're going to have even more people in the lower tier (whether they were beaten down or were already a lower tier nation) so I don't see where you get the idea that what's left of your higher NS nations will have all of these free slots to import tech. If anything the demand on them for rebuilding aid will be much higher than the demand on ours due to a combination of sheer numbers of lower tier nations existing on your side, plus the fact that some of ours in that range post-war will have good warchests from being a top-tier nation previously.

 

I agree with the sub-100k nuking, I said in my post that because of SDIs it really balances out in the end. It's not much of an advantage either side really. Probably wasn't worth mentioning in the first place. But it's certainly not the "omg your lower tier nations are getting beaten down while ours are immune" argument that's been going around.

[Daikos]

In fact Umbs aid slot % has never been higher than 50% since Roq left.

 

[citation needed]

[Dochartaigh]

MK had the highest of any alliance above 100 nations for a while (since King Brandon took over the Treasury) so I don't know where you're getting your numbers from. Umb has consistently been above 35%, often above 40%. AI never had anything like that, although NPO was always pretty good. I'm not sure completely about IRON but I think they were somewhere between AI and NPO. Then take a look at TIO, they were rarely pushing 20%.

Actually TIO was consistently between 25% and 30%. So, not sure where you are getting your stats from. I know right now the slot usage is low but this is actually unusually low for TIO. There were times TIO pushed up to 35% to above 40%.

[Mogar]

I don't dispute what you're saying for the duration of the war (I've already explained why i feel we have an advantage in the rebuilding part). It just means we have different ideas of what a statistical victory is.

 

Edit: The damage done in the sub-100k range also probably lies in our favour as we have the ability to nuke more than 1 nation if you're 3v1ing us. I know SDIs make that much more balanced but the situation still gives us a bit of an edge in damage output.

i dont think we need the super tiers to win, i think we need to completely dominate your nations that 15/18mil to will mean very little, which we are quite apt to do.

 

I have used a few billions sure, but soon there won't be anyone left to stagger me, and I can start rebuilding.

 

Meanwhile many of our other nations can jump back up from the sharktank using their warchest. Sure, eQ can do the same but since we already "own" the top tier our supernations will send them back with 2-3k less tech.

 

Those who are too low to be saved have already accepted their fate. Especially in Umbrella.

Have all of your people done the same? Is the goal for you're nations to reach 80k NS and stop there?

our goal is to remove your ability to dominate anything but the top tier, i would gather our goal post war is to ensure we're in a position where this is your only war you get that advantage.

[CubaQuerida]

I

 

Umbrella

 

CubaQuerida

To begin with, Umbrella's largest nation and king of the massively overpowered nuke, CubaQuerida is in peace mode.  Well at least until he ends up with 11 nuclear weapons.  In fact Cuba is not all that interesting, he's big, he's mean, and he just finished up an extremely destructive war with BubblerNation. For EQ though it isn't a great sign that Cuba was allowed to hop into peace mode and restock his nukes. Anyway, moving on to the war mode nations.

 

Cmon man, I'm plenty interesting, why you gotta go there?

[Aeros]

I have used a few billions sure, but soon there won't be anyone left to stagger me, and I can start rebuilding.

 

Meanwhile many of our other nations can jump back up from the sharktank using their warchest. Sure, eQ can do the same but since we already "own" the top tier our supernations will send them back with 2-3k less tech.

 

Those who are too low to be saved have already accepted their fate. Especially in Umbrella.

Have all of your people done the same? Is the goal for you're nations to reach 80k NS and stop there?

 

 

So nice every alliance that is not Umbrella has accepted their fate to die for your stats. I assume this memo has been passed along to VE and Deinos who are almost entirely among the masses that have accepted this? 

[Jake Liebenow]

So nice every alliance that is not Umbrella has accepted their fate to die for your stats. I assume this memo has been passed along to VE and Deinos who are almost entirely among the masses that have accepted this? 

 

I'm going to reference my last post.  The longer that we stay at war, the harder it is for you guys to win.  Deinos has fully accepted itself as an auxiliary unit in this war, and Umbrella is the workhorse.  

 

Come at us bro.  I would love the taste of some more NPO nations but for some reason they didn't stagger me (???341:67 nation ratio???) and they're kindly letting me restock nukes in PM.  

Edited February 11, 2013 by Jake Liebenow

[Indian Bob]

I have used a few billions sure, but soon there won't be anyone left to stagger me, and I can start rebuilding.

 

Meanwhile many of our other nations can jump back up from the sharktank using their warchest. Sure, eQ can do the same but since we already "own" the top tier our supernations will send them back with 2-3k less tech.

 

Those who are too low to be saved have already accepted their fate. Especially in Umbrella.

Have all of your people done the same? Is the goal for you're nations to reach 80k NS and stop there?

 

Your members who've "accepted their fate" may be the exception but most alliance members are not going to throw themselves on the proverbial sword as readily as you seem to indicate.  It is an interesting perspective though...

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

our goal is to remove your ability to dominate anything but the top tier, i would gather our goal post war is to ensure we're in a position where this is your only war you get that advantage.

 

hang on, wasn't the goal of this war equilibrium? moved the goalposts a little bit, haven't you? :D

Edited February 12, 2013 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[Bob]

hang on, wasn't the goal of this war equilibrium? moved the goalposts a little bit, haven't you? :D

They are accepting the actual reality of the situation.  Some people didn't really do a lot of thinking it seems about disparate levels within nations and how to effectively manage a war in which you might not be outnumbered, but the relative value of the various nations is vastly different.

 

That being said, some just wanted to watch the world burn while still more took their dislike for DH/etc and gave it a nice wrapping with the whole "Equilibrium" concept. 

Edited February 12, 2013 by Penlugue Solaris

[Charles Stuart]

Why do I get the feeling that after DH/friends have finally surrendered all we are going to see as topics post war is ' we surrendered but we won on stats'.

News flash kids, stats don't win wars. 30 untouchable nations aren't going to win this war but the other 1500 or so nations the EQ coalition can touch will make defeat for DH/friends inevitable. If you are content to let your 99% burn in order to gain some silly advantage for the other 1% be my guest.

[Kiss Goodbye]

Assuming immediate bill lock strikes me as awfully optimistic. It's pretty difficult to keep a nation in nuclear anarchy when the other side has the numbers and nukes advantages, and you yourself are in nuclear anarchy. Who's going to declare the next war? The "numbers game" is pretty simple, honestly. One side gets to collect out of nuclear anarchy, and it's not the side with the smaller numbers.

 

As for WC/aid, as has been previously pointed out, 60k is the same as 160k (or for that matter, 360k) so far as aid goes. If, as you propose, this war is going to be settled by aid, you'd think that would come down to simple numbers as well.

 

Not immediate.  I'd guess most people have 100 days of bills or so (not really enough to fight a long war on even grounds).  Some in certain alliances likely have much more; these will be the difference makers.  Hopefully they are not ordered to waste their resources rebuying infrastructure in war. 

 

The methodology is based heavily around not overdeclaring and instead running with 1 offensive war and 3 defensive wars, selecting targets to bring down one at a time (those with shortest warchests).  Gramlins deployed this against IRON in Karma (calling it 'sniper' and the MK tactic of declaring on 3 nations at a time 'shotgun') and they were able to roll through the IRON upper tier in chunks, widening their attacks as more nations were put in bill lock (at which point they only needed to be sent 1 nuke per 5 days and the usual attacks which were unopposed).  That may not be repeated here, if as stated some Doomhouse people are prioritizing rebuying all the way back to the top levels, rather than to the next level down on which they'd have a big advantage.

 

The only way to stop it is to keep people from being able to redeclare on their previous targets.  After Doomhouse&Co secure their upper tier we may see some of them sell infra/land to declare down and widen the advantage as people exit peacemode, bit by bit.  There is, of course, a lower limit on their capacity to do this. 

 

At high NS levels, however, a net 1.5m/day isn't going to cover the bills.

 

But yes, as I noted previously the aid chains that matter most can be provided by nations well below this mark.  That's where DH are critically misjudging: since aid hasn't progressed significantly, a 100k+ nation and a 60k nation are basically able to dish out the same amount of money. 

Edited February 12, 2013 by Kiss Goodbye

[Bob]

Not immediate.  I'd guess most people have 100 days of bills or so. 

 

The methodology is based heavily around not overdeclaring and selecting targets to bring down one at a time (those with shortest warchests).  Gramlins deployed this against IRON in Karma and they were able to roll through the IRON upper tier in chunks, widening their attacks as more nations were put in bill lock (at which point they only needed to be sent 1 nuke per 5 days).

 

The only way to stop it is to keep people from being able to redeclare on their previous targets.  After Doomhouse&Co secure their upper tier we may see some of them sell infra/land to declare down and widen the advantage as people exit peacemode, bit by bit.  There is, of course, a lower limit on their capacity to do this. 

 

But yes, as I noted previously the aid chains that matter most can be provided by nations well below this mark.  At high NS levels, however, a net 1.5m/day isn't going to cover the bills. 

If a hundred days bills is the standard, you are severely, severely underestimating a significant portion of CN (at least I hope).  I know TOP isn't close to that standard at all, and I'm honestly disappointed if that is the standard across either side at this point in time.

 

By Dt's standard I'm over a billion short and I have 300 days bills (from my starting infra/money level, I had roughly 250). 

Edited February 12, 2013 by Penlugue Solaris

[Kiss Goodbye]

If a hundred days bills is the standard, you are severely, severely underestimating a significant portion of CN (at least I hope).  I know TOP isn't close to that standard at all, and I'm honestly disappointed if that is the standard across either side at this point in time.

 

By Dt's standard I'm over a billion short and I have 300 days bills (from my starting infra/money level, I had roughly 250). 

 

I am probably underestimating the majority. I have no idea what other alliances' warchest standards are. 

 

But it would be very interesting to see where everyone stacks up.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Kiss Goodbye

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

If a hundred days bills is the standard, you are severely, severely underestimating a significant portion of CN (at least I hope).

 

He isn't. I (amongst others) have been collecting intel on Q top tier nations and some of the warchest data would break your heart man, particularly wrt to all these infra heavy, tech light dudes.

[the rebel]

Not immediate.  I'd guess most people have 100 days of bills or so (not really enough to fight a long war on even grounds).  Some in certain alliances likely have much more; these will be the difference makers.  Hopefully they are not ordered to waste their resources rebuying infrastructure in war.

 

Bills, who uses that dated measure these days? I would assume/hope the standard is a number of daily collections.

[Namayan]

I am not doubting that mate. Many nations on your side most likely feel the same but do all of them? If y'all continue fighting, what do you honestly expect your damage output to become? Most of UcON is under 30k NS. How many nations do you expect to retain if they are sitting at ZI? Hell, for all I know it could be all of them or none of them. You may want to fight for months, but does your entire alliance? Particularly if they have 7 of their alliance mates continue to sit in PM for the duration of the war, while they get pounded?
 
Again, I am not saying I know UcON, just that a long war is not what most nations playing CN want to endure. It can become tedious and boring to most, particularly if they are simply getting beatdown and foresee little hope of actually doing much.

Whole of UCoN alliance knows what they signed up for when they voted to join this war. We have accepted our part on this war and doing it.

The question is really if the whole eQuilibrium knows what they signed for or if even they have a plan to win this war since it has veered away from its original purpose which was to lessen the gap between DHs top tiers.

DH's top tiers are now free to deal damage coalition wide as eQuilibrium already surrendered the 130K NS+ and above by hiding in peace mode as part of their new plan.

Another question that you should ask all your eQuilibrium peers is: are they even doing what they are suppose to do as the disorganization is rampant.