Will the Real Ragnarok Please stand up?

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='LordDarknessOfLight' timestamp='1327986106' post='2911341']
That basically sums it up then.. Joe Stupid can still enforce the policy of Kait being a Ghost of Ragnarok and all treaty cancels apply.. He has power as it is a lifetime position and I don't think it is voted but appointed. Have you even appointed your Regent yet?
[/quote]

No Joe Stupid gave his power to me. He isn't emperor anymore.

[Isaac MatthewII]

Since when does a coup happen legally, I mean really its our internal business. We can declare that on every Sunday RoKers must do the robot if we wish and its nobodys business to change that. This is old haters trying to find a reason to annoy the people they hate and its honestly sad....

[Baltus]

[quote name='Velocity111' timestamp='1327981769' post='2911257']
See, that's the problem. You can't go back in history and change stuff.

Same response to you Omni. It already happened, rewriting it after it happened doesn't change how it happened.
[/quote]
This.

Kaitlin was kicked out by the legitimate Government of Ragnarok at the time. She was then raided for being a rogue. When a new government was formed, they declared her a member (possibly even gov), after which she nuked one of her raiders. It's Ragnarok's fault for not clearing this up, before declaring her to be a member. She was already an open target, attacked, and then declared a member. If we were to forget that she was a former leader of the alliance, and treat her as any other member it would obvious that Ragnarok is in the wrong. This is why alliances don't accept nations who are at war.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Velocity111' timestamp='1327981769' post='2911257']
See, that's the problem. You can't go back in history and change stuff.

Same response to you Omni. It already happened, rewriting it after it happened doesn't change how it happened.
[/quote]
[quote name='Baltus' timestamp='1327988426' post='2911367']
This.

Kaitlin was kicked out by the legitimate Government of Ragnarok at the time. She was then raided for being a rogue. When a new government was formed, they declared her a member (possibly even gov), after which she nuked one of her raiders. It's Ragnarok's fault for not clearing this up, before declaring her to be a member. She was already an open target, attacked, and then declared a member. If we were to forget that she was a former leader of the alliance, and treat her as any other member it would obvious that Ragnarok is in the wrong. This is why alliances don't accept nations who are at war.
[/quote]

From what I understand though, the kick was illegal by the charter. If it was, then there is no way being kicked out could have been done. The government of RoK will have to swallow the damage done to Kait, because their government allowed MK to hit Kait. However, there shouldn't be any reps levied. Unless RoK admits that they allowed Kait back in after she was kicked out.

[supercoolyellow]

Lets not bull !@#$ people here. MK didn't attack Kait to help Rok ghost bust. They attacked her for OOC reasons.

[Systemfailure]

as far as MK and reps is concerned shouldnt MK be more worried that nations of theirs who liked to raid dont love nukes?isn't that against their charter or something?

i mean if i found out a nation didnt like getting casualties id be getting their expulsion paperwork started

[LordDarknessOfLight]

[quote name='Joe Stupid' timestamp='1327985343' post='2911328']
Yes, Yes, and No. Never resigned from Rok.
[/quote]
You sir lied..
[quote]Alliance Seniority: 1/29/2012 9:34:01 PM (1 Days)[/quote]
I was also looking through your charter and found some interesting things..

[quote]The final decision, in all matters, will be decided by the Emperor.[/quote]
When Bob was in power, he masked Kait a "Ghost" of Ragnarok.. He legally had power to do so as Emperor.. As Joe claimed the throne, he continued this proficiency.. Thus keeping her as a ghost. Today, she is legally still deemed a ghost in this whole process as Adel isn't legally Emperor of Ragnarok according to Charter.
[quote]Emperor (Lifetime)
Regent (Lifetime)
Vice-Regent (Lifetime)
High Chancellor (Appointed)
Vice Chancellor (Appointed)
Consul (Appointed) [/quote]
[quote]If the Emperor leaves office. He or she must select a replacement[/quote]
I find it quite funny how the members forget how their charter works but also understand what position they are in.. After Bobs rule.. Joe is put into position leaving Regent and Vice Regent open.. He never appointed members to fill in the Regent and Vice Regent as he leaves. Now here's the problem.. When Joe leaves and comes back to "claim the throne," there were no members assigned to the positions Regent and Vice Regent.. There are no elections for these positions.. They are LIFETIME.. Joe basically could come back and assume command as there were no processors of him and thus legally giving him power.. Thus again, forcing Adel not legally emperor as there is no voting for that position.. You may wanna rewrite that portion.

[quote]OOC threats and attacks are strictly forbidden[/quote]
We all can clearly read this rule.. But, Another problem with this.. What are the consequences of violating such a rule? I do not see on this charter any "punishment" for violating or committing such actions.. Also should be added.

[quote]The nation cannot be engaged in any wars[/quote]
As Kait was considered a "ghost" of Ragnarok by an active Emperor.. She is a considered ghost.. When an illegal Government official pledged her to have her membership reinstated.. This breaks the rule of readmittance to Ragnarok. I don't blame Mushroom Kingdom for being upset in this position

And finally..

[quote]Respect - We are respectful to each other and to others outside the alliance[/quote].
I read this in your charter.. But it's sad.. Sad to see how members don't respect each other.. It all started with Bob not respecting kait.. Everyone wouldn't be in this damn position if everyone respected each other..

I highly suggest some revisions in your current charter.. My orinigial post disappeared but this is the best I could remember I wrote.

[Bones Malone]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1327989195' post='2911372']
Lets not bull !@#$ people here. MK didn't attack Kait to help Rok ghost bust. They attacked her for OOC reasons.
[/quote]

I don't disagree with you (man does that feel dirty to say) but I think they already admitted that they attacked KK because they don't like her. I feel like I read that somewhere. Bob saying that she was a ghost gave them an opportunity.

I don't blame her for nuking back (I would have done the same thing) but Adel-RoK does need to talk to MK and get it sorted out. It should have been done first thing before KK got officially re-admitted, but Adel-RoK has been pretty busy these past couple of days and I guess it slipped their minds.

EDIT: Okay, found what I was mentioning before. I guess its more that they don't really care about defining it at all. She was unaffiliated and then attacked: call it whatever you want.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1327956782' post='2910806']
Raid, ghostbusting, EMD; doesn't really matter. MK nations are engaged with an individual validly declared unaffiliated by Ragnarok's Emperor.
[/quote]

Edited January 31, 2012 by Bones Malone

[Isaac MatthewII]

[quote name='LordDarknessOfLight' timestamp='1327990119' post='2911385']
You sir lied..

I was also looking through your charter and found some interesting things..


When Bob was in power, he masked Kait a "Ghost" of Ragnarok.. He legally had power to do so as Emperor.. As Joe claimed the throne, he continued this proficiency.. Thus keeping her as a ghost. Today, she is legally still deemed a ghost in this whole process as Adel isn't legally Emperor of Ragnarok according to Charter.


I find it quite funny how the members forget how their charter works but also understand what position they are in.. After Bobs rule.. Joe is put into position leaving Regent and Vice Regent open.. He never appointed members to fill in the Regent and Vice Regent as he leaves. Now here's the problem.. When Joe leaves and comes back to "claim the throne," there were no members assigned to the positions Regent and Vice Regent.. There are no elections for these positions.. They are LIFETIME.. Joe basically could come back and assume command as there were no processors of him and thus legally giving him power.. Thus again, forcing Adel not legally emperor as there is no voting for that position.. You may wanna rewrite that portion.


We all can clearly read this rule.. But, Another problem with this.. What are the consequences of violating such a rule? I do not see on this charter any "punishment" for violating or committing such actions.. Also should be added.


As Kait was considered a "ghost" of Ragnarok by an active Emperor.. She is a considered ghost.. When an illegal Government official pledged her to have her membership reinstated.. This breaks the rule of readmittance to Ragnarok. I don't blame Mushroom Kingdom for being upset in this position

And finally..

.
I read this in your charter.. But it's sad.. Sad to see how members don't respect each other.. It all started with Bob not respecting kait.. Everyone wouldn't be in this damn position if everyone respected each other..

I highly suggest some revisions in your current charter.. My orinigial post disappeared but this is the best I could remember I wrote.
[/quote]


I think you still fail to see how none of this is your business, we can do what we like in our alliance, being our alliance. Adel was selected by the members, no coup is ever legal, get over it bob and joe arent going to do what you wanted with RoK.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Isaac MatthewII

[LordDarknessOfLight]

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1327994624' post='2911435']
I think you still fail to see how none of this is your business, we can do what we like in our alliance, being our alliance. Adel was selected by the members, no coup is ever legal, [b]get over it bob and joe arent going to do what you wanted with RoK.
[/b][/quote]
All I did was suggest a rewritten charter? No need for arrogance. Your whole entire affairs are posted in the OWF.. Kinda everyone's business. Haven't been nosey once, just doing my job as a diplomat but you obvious have some issues internally to work on.. And really, you can't. Most alliances abide by the charter written to their alliance as that states basically how they are ran and their laws.. But yeah, have fun with your "civil war.."

It makes me laugh how you tell me in that last sentence to get over it.. I have no intentions of wanting Ragnarok being destroyed. I have respect for every alliance, and if you think I want you guys destroyed.. You sir are crazy. Your alliance as a whole is doing a wonderful job on its own without Viridian Ententes help.

[JT Jag]

Perhaps my glasses need an adjustment, but I don't appear to see anyone standing up at all.

[Isaac MatthewII]

[quote name='LordDarknessOfLight' timestamp='1327995276' post='2911442']
All I did was suggest a rewritten charter? No need for arrogance. Your whole entire affairs are posted in the OWF.. Kinda everyone's business. Haven't been nosey once, just doing my job as a diplomat but you obvious have some issues internally to work on.. And really, you can't. Most alliances abide by the charter written to their alliance as that states basically how they are ran and their laws.. But yeah, have fun with your "civil war.."

It makes me laugh how you tell me in that last sentence to get over it.. I have no intentions of wanting Ragnarok being destroyed. I have respect for every alliance, and if you think I want you guys destroyed.. You sir are crazy. Your alliance as a whole is doing a wonderful job on its own without Viridian Ententes help.
[/quote]

I apologize I didnt read that correctly, that more applies to the general public so I wasnt going directly at you. It is hard to tell nowadays since every single time I see an MK or VE logo in this discussion they have something bad to say like they dont have a mind of their own. So I jumped to conclusions, my bad.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Isaac MatthewII

[mrwuss]

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1327996854' post='2911449']
I apologize I didnt read that correctly, that more applies to the general public so I wasnt going directly at you. It is hard to tell nowadays since every single time I see an MK or VE logo in this discussion they have something bad to say like they dont have a mind of their own. So I jumped to conclusions, my bad.
[/quote]

You are going to get your alliance rolled with your pitiful attitude. If you can't approach the public in a gracious manner then stop addressing the public. Your alliance is currently in a rocky state which will feed the sharks, stop smacking your ore in the water. The subject doesn't matter in the least. NATO is not going to scare anyone off. Just stop replying to the thread and walk away.

Your current leader, no matter who it is, needs to reign in the fools before someone just gets tired of the constant quips.

This will be the last time I make a serious post on this forum, take good advice when it is offered. Pride is a dangerous thing.

[Isaac MatthewII]

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1327998593' post='2911456']
You are going to get your alliance rolled with your pitiful attitude. If you can't approach the public in a gracious manner then stop addressing the public. Your alliance is currently in a rocky state which will feed the sharks, stop smacking your ore in the water. The subject doesn't matter in the least. NATO is not going to scare anyone off. Just stop replying to the thread and walk away.

Your current leader, no matter who it is, needs to reign in the fools before someone just gets tired of the constant quips.

This will be the last time I make a serious post on this forum, take good advice when it is offered. Pride is a dangerous thing.
[/quote]


I love you to

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1327998593' post='2911456']
You are going to get your alliance rolled with your pitiful attitude. If you can't approach the public in a gracious manner then stop addressing the public. Your alliance is currently in a rocky state which will feed the sharks, stop smacking your ore in the water. The subject doesn't matter in the least. NATO is not going to scare anyone off. Just stop replying to the thread and walk away.

Your current leader, no matter who it is, needs to reign in the fools before someone just gets tired of the constant quips.

This will be the last time I make a serious post on this forum, take good advice when it is offered. Pride is a dangerous thing.
[/quote]

Don't even try to talk sense into them. They're clearly not going to listen. As Isaac said, he sees a VE or MK logo and jumps to conclusions. As CN's senior conclusion-jumper, I know how much that can hurt PR. Unfortunately, some of RoK's more vocal members don't know when to stop. I expect this to devolve further into idiocy.



I offer the following as evidence, your honor.

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1327999486' post='2911458']
I love you to
[/quote]

[WorldConqueror]

Yeah, Isaac is pretty much the last person you want to be acting as your public spokesman.

[Megamind]

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1327994624' post='2911435']
I think you still fail to see how none of this is your business, we can do what we like in our alliance, being our alliance. Adel was selected by the members, [b]no coup is ever legal[/b], get over it bob and joe arent going to do what you wanted with RoK.
[/quote]

So what you are saying is that the Adel administration is illegal, but that it's ok because it's none of our business?

[Beefspari]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1327996068' post='2911447']
Perhaps my glasses need an adjustment, but I don't appear to see anyone standing up at all.
[/quote]
I'm [s]Spartacus[/s] the leader of Ragnarok.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisyayL4.jpg[/img]

[AvengerNL]

[quote name='Megamind' timestamp='1328001689' post='2911463']
So what you are saying is that the Adel administration is illegal, but that it's ok because it's none of our business?
[/quote]

Didn't it kind of become everyones business when everyone and their mother decided to make a thread on the OWF claiming to be the emperor of Ragnarok?

[berbers]

Bob and Joe are good people, they just messed up by allowing someone with that much history to be ghost busted off their AA by a bunch of d-bags in MK. They might have been right in trying to get her off the AA, I haven't read the resignation after the war statement, but RoK owed KaitlinK more than allowing some MK #@$#'s to attack her. They should have at least given her the honor of being attacked by Rokkers if she wouldn't move, instead she got mushroom slime all over her new coat.

As far as I am concerned, that's the biggest problem with those two and the membership took umbrage to their actions as well. Either Bob and Joe stayed and most of RoK left, or they left and the AA remained somewhat intact.

We all know what happens when leaders start acting retarded without the support of their membership (hi ramlins), and pretty much everyone wishes the membership bailed on him long before things got to where they did, this is just a pre-emptive action to avoid a Ramirus type situation.

And finally, a charter written by a dictator to remain in power for life can always be overturned by a public uprising. Even dictators govern by the will of the people, except they don't admit it.

The membership have spoken, we stand with them.

[Aurion]

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1327984130' post='2911299']
Well besides the many things wrong with that statement sure
[/quote]

Not much wrong with it, actually.

The only way it'd be better if if Ilyani and Joe were still hanging around. A plague on both your houses, and all that.

[Commander shepard]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1327986388' post='2911347']
Coming to correct you. I'll give you everything:

Kait asks for help with OOC issue.
Bob Ilyani emperor at the time kicks out Kait illegally over OOC things.
MK raids Kait.
RoK boards go offline.
Adel proclaimed emperor/empress by the members of RoK.
Bob Ilyani has RoK treaties canceled.
Bob Ilyani and Joe Stupid leave the AA.
Joe Stupid returns to the AA and proclaims me emperor.
I proclaim Joe Stupid a slurper and sentence him to ZI.
I allow Adel and her government to rule in my stead.
NATO says they'll protect RoK from attacks.
Joe Stupid whines saying he will never give up.
[/quote]

That sounds like a god awful tale, oh wait its true.

[King Wally]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1327986388' post='2911347']
Coming to correct you. I'll give you everything:

Kait asks for help with OOC issue.
Bob Ilyani emperor at the time kicks out Kait illegally over OOC things.
MK raids Kait.
RoK boards go offline.
Adel proclaimed emperor/empress by the members of RoK.
Bob Ilyani has RoK treaties canceled.
Bob Ilyani and Joe Stupid leave the AA.
Joe Stupid returns to the AA and proclaims me emperor.
I proclaim Joe Stupid a slurper and sentence him to ZI.
I allow Adel and her government to rule in my stead.
NATO says they'll protect RoK from attacks.
Joe Stupid whines saying he will never give up.
[/quote]

This is pretty much it in a nutshell... sticky it to the OP and be done with it.

[Lenny N Karl]

[quote name='berbers' timestamp='1328006344' post='2911471']
Bob and Joe are good people, they just messed up by allowing someone with that much history to be ghost busted off their AA by a bunch of d-bags in MK. They might have been right in trying to get her off the AA, I haven't read the resignation after the war statement, but RoK owed KaitlinK more than allowing some MK #@$#'s to attack her. They should have at least given her the honor of being attacked by Rokkers if she wouldn't move, instead she got mushroom slime all over her new coat.

As far as I am concerned, that's the biggest problem with those two and the membership took umbrage to their actions as well. Either Bob and Joe stayed and most of RoK left, or they left and the AA remained somewhat intact.

We all know what happens when leaders start acting retarded without the support of their membership (hi ramlins), and pretty much everyone wishes the membership bailed on him long before things got to where they did, this is just a pre-emptive action to avoid a Ramirus type situation.

And finally, a charter written by a dictator to remain in power for life can always be overturned by a public uprising. Even dictators govern by the will of the people, except they don't admit it.

The membership have spoken, we stand with them.
[/quote]

Berbs,

please state your opinion about a matter in a more respectful manner about those you consider the opposition next time. It is not the NATO way to stoop to such demeaning and unprofessional insults.

The bad gains respect through imitation, the good loses it.

[Rayvon]

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1327998593' post='2911456']
You are going to get your alliance rolled with your pitiful attitude. If you can't approach the public in a gracious manner then stop addressing the public. Your alliance is currently in a rocky state which will feed the sharks, stop smacking your ore in the water. The subject doesn't matter in the least. NATO is not going to scare anyone off. Just stop replying to the thread and walk away.

Your current leader, no matter who it is, needs to reign in the fools before someone just gets tired of the constant quips.

This will be the last time I make a serious post on this forum, take good advice when it is offered. Pride is a dangerous thing.
[/quote]

I'd listen to this man.


[quote name='Lenny N Karl' timestamp='1328017298' post='2911510']
Berbs,

please state your opinion about a matter in a more respectful manner about those you consider the opposition next time. It is not the NATO way to stoop to such demeaning and unprofessional insults.

The bad gains respect through imitation, the good loses it.
[/quote]

I'd say Berbers has been the most respectful poster from both the NATO and defacto RoK camps thus far.