Captain Flinders Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='King Wally' timestamp='1328050778' post='2911856'] Personally I would prefer to see them hold a democratic referendum to silence the issue. RoK has never been a democracy but given the circumstances I think today is the time to introduce a one off poll to put this issue to bed in the public light if for nothing else. Hell throw Omni in as a candidate too, he may give Bobby-Joe and Adel a run for their money! Moving forward the party that wins the poll should introduce a clause to the Charter that clears up a path for removing a leader thats vastly unpopular among the people. [/quote] I really don't care what you would like to see. I'm talking about what happened. So you can live in fantasy land if you'd like. We''ll all chill here in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megamind Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='enderland' timestamp='1328050886' post='2911860'] I think we agree with each other Megamind [/quote] Yeah I know [quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1328051204' post='2911863'] Actually Adel didnt appoint her self. [/quote] Pray tell, who did then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Because Kait nuked an MK member during peace talks, I think RoK has two options. Declare kait a rogue, or they can break down and surrender to whatever punishment MK levies. Anything else would just end badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1328051570' post='2911871'] I really don't care what you would like to see. I'm talking about what happened. So you can live in fantasy land if you'd like. We''ll all chill here in the real world. [/quote] If you're arguing for Joe Stupid's emperorship then just stop. Joe Stupid made me emperor and I kicked him out of the alliance, sentenced him to ZI, and declared Adel in charge. Edited January 31, 2012 by Omniscient1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wu Tang Clan Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='enderland' timestamp='1328050390' post='2911849'] Was Adel emperor prior to the forums being deleted? I'm fairly sure Adel was not emperor before the... incident. [/quote] She wasn't even a member when the forums went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1328051648' post='2911876'] If your arguing for Joe Stupid's emperorship then just stop. Joe Stupid made me emperor and I kicked him out of the alliance, sentenced him to ZI, and declared Adel in charge. [/quote] Don't talk to me. You can't possibly have anything to say that would be worth hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Adel was appointed while not even in the alliance. She was in the Combine at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Wally Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1328051570' post='2911871'] I really don't care what you would like to see. I'm talking about what happened. So you can live in fantasy land if you'd like. We''ll all chill here in the real world. [/quote] Well I have to agree that what happened was not smart PR. Based on the RoK members I speak to it apears Adels assention is legit and popular however I will admit they need to do something to fix the public backlash. Its not hard... a snap poll over 24 hours and you would have an answer. I guess that is my admittion Im not totally happy with the situation, but to be honest my concern is with the public approval of the move not the members approval at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1328051759' post='2911880'] Don't talk to me. You can't possibly have anything to say that would be worth hearing. [/quote] [img]http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/funny-pictures-beaver-cant-hear-you.jpg[/img] Good job. You got me, Slurper. Edited January 31, 2012 by Omniscient1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1328051777' post='2911881'] Adel was appointed while not even in the alliance. She was in the Combine at the time. [/quote] Didn't this happen before with Kait being taken from Polar and being made Empress when Taut stepped down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonAce Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) [quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1328049366' post='2911830'] That's not necessary at all, and this is a stupid argument. It's already implicit that if you disobey your alliance's founding document that you're liable to be expelled from the alliance and have your nation destroyed. [/quote] Well, I guess most of RoK should be expelled then, sent to more deserving alliances, and Joe/Bob can have the shell of what's left. [quote name='Megamind' timestamp='1328049533' post='2911831'] How about we just use this line: The final decision, in all matters, will be decided by the Emperor. Does that hold weight enough? [/quote] Not when the majority of membership thinks otherwise and acts on it. [quote name='Megamind' timestamp='1328050233' post='2911844'] Yes? But unless I'm reading what JonAce wrote wrong, what he is arguing is that the RoK charter lacks a way to deal with people trying to overthrow the legitimate government. [/quote] You're reading correctly. Edited January 31, 2012 by JonAce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac MatthewII Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='Megamind' timestamp='1328051570' post='2911872'] Pray tell, who did then? [/quote] The members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wu Tang Clan Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1328052630' post='2911891'] The members. [/quote] And when was the vote held to determine the members' will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac MatthewII Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1328052768' post='2911893'] And when was the vote held to determine the members' will? [/quote] After you left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac MatthewII Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='Systemfailure' timestamp='1328051288' post='2911867'] Fix'd you ya [/quote] Also I mean during a war between her and 3 other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvengerNL Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1328052909' post='2911896'] Also I mean during a war between her and 3 other people. [/quote] Did you polar too stupid to read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktarthan Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='JonAce' timestamp='1328052442' post='2911890'] Well, I guess most of RoK should be expelled then, sent to more deserving alliances, and Joe/Bob can have the shell of what's left. [/quote] Technically the side that has more "power" can simply call themselves Ragnarok and either adopt the old charter or make a new one. Who's to stop them? [quote] Not when the majority of membership thinks otherwise and acts on it. You're reading correctly. [/quote] You just refuted yourself. Backwards. Point A) Charters and their clauses are only valid as long as the membership upholds them. Point B) RoK's charter lacked an explicit punishment for members who don't uphold a certain clause in the charter. [i]Point A invalidates Point B[/i]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Stupid Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Systemfailure' timestamp='1328050010' post='2911841'] i wasnt aware that anyone was to blame for that, can you show me where you saw this stated? [/quote] DDL took down the forums at Adel's behest. [quote name='enderland' timestamp='1328050390' post='2911849'] Was Adel emperor prior to the forums being deleted? I'm fairly sure Adel was not emperor before the... incident. [/quote] Adel left like a coward instead of standing up for what she believed in. She wasn't in the alliance when she became the Emp. [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1328051648' post='2911876'] If you're arguing for Joe Stupid's emperorship then just stop. Joe Stupid made me emperor and I kicked him out of the alliance, sentenced him to ZI, and declared Adel in charge. [/quote] Just stop. This is getting absurd. [quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1328052344' post='2911888'] Didn't this happen before with Kait being taken from Polar and being made Empress when Taut stepped down? [/quote] Yes, and we learned that 1) there was a worse emperor then Taut, and 2) Hoo "gave" it to Kait. Not even Taut. [quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1328052811' post='2911894'] After you left. [/quote] That's funny, i don't remember there being a referendum or a vote. In fact there was no vote. All in all there are NO clauses in the charter to remove an Emperor, it is a lifetime position. Therefore the only way an Emp can stop is if he steps down in fact you can't coup an Emperor under Rok's charter because i've tried too before lol: this was before the PC-Rok war. [quote] 08:54:37: <VanHooIII[NpO]> You know that RoK wasn't coming in 08:54:45: <VanHooIII[NpO]> You said it yourself that you had to talk Taut into it 08:54:46: <Joe_Stupid> no way dude. 08:54:50: <Joe_Stupid> i knew. 08:54:57: <Joe_Stupid> and if someone asked me i would have told them 08:55:09: <Joe_Stupid> i told you I had every intention of couping taut. 08:55:10: <VanHooIII[NpO]> Then it is a half truth, because you know Taut wasn't going to do it 08:55:46: <Joe_Stupid> Hey, he said he never intended on not defending polar 08:55:50: <Joe_Stupid> he said that to the AC 08:56:01: <VanHooIII[NpO]> Yes, but you know better, [b]you can't coup an Emperor under our system[/b] 08:56:16: <VanHooIII[NpO]> The entire reason my tag says Polar is because I was told that Taut was not going in 08:58:53: <Joe_Stupid> i'm just saying, me and Taut are going to start butting heads now 08:58:59: <Joe_Stupid> on almost everything 08:59:23: <VanHooIII[NpO]> The RC as a whole needs to take control anyway 08:59:44: <VanHooIII[NpO]> RoK comes across as confused and weak 09:00:06: <Joe_Stupid> that's what happens when you go from, well you, to taut 09:01:09: <VanHooIII[NpO]> I don't think anyone saw Taut as being confused and weak before now ... 09:01:16: <VanHooIII[NpO]> I really thought I had nailed it this time ... lol 09:01:21: <Joe_Stupid> lol 09:01:37: <Joe_Stupid> the real problem is he is on a dif timezone 09:02:06: <VanHooIII[NpO]> That doesn't explain conflicting stories and the inability to convey where RoK stands with conviction [/quote] Edited February 1, 2012 by Joe Stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1328047982' post='2911810'] You're right. Kait has been an innocent bystander in all of this. The true victim. [/quote] No more so than KaiserMartens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Clam Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Am I the only who's confused? I have heard like 15 different stories on what the hell is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodFury Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1328051777' post='2911881'] Adel was appointed while not even in the alliance. She was in the Combine at the time. [/quote] We offered political asylum to any RoK member that wanted to escape from the political turmoil that was broiling in the alliance, and we still maintain the stance to offer any RoK member political asylum. She decided to take us up on the offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacky Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1328047850' post='2911808'] Nuking in self-defence is not dishonourable. [/quote] I've been nuked twice. I don't find it dishonourable in the slightest, nukes just like any other warring tool is valid and justified... when at war. That's the point right there. Kait is at war with MK. Rok (I don't care about their internal business) has accepted a member amidst their ranks who is at war with MK. Therefore, Rok is at war with MK. It has historically been this way and that's as clear cut a legitimate CB as you can get. Spying, accepting or aiding members at war with an alliance, attacking an ally. Not sure why it's not official at this point, but they are de-facto at war with us through Kait. (Not even by proxy, it's direct). Edited February 1, 2012 by Blacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergerberger II Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='Joe Stupid' timestamp='1328055882' post='2911933'] Adel left like a coward instead of standing up for what she believed in. She wasn't in the alliance when she became the Emp. [/quote] She, like many others, left [i]because[/i] she was standing up for what she believed in. I don't see any other way to look at that. [quote name='Joe Stupid' timestamp='1328055882' post='2911933'][color=#1C2837]08:56:01: <VanHooIII[NpO]> Yes, but you know better, [/color][b]you can't coup an Emperor under our system[/b] [/quote] Doesn't really matter all that much. We still found a way to coup sponge in 2008, despite an Imperial Removal Clause not being added until late last year. If it has to be done, it will get done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='Blacky' timestamp='1328057998' post='2911965'] I've been nuked twice. I don't find it dishonourable in the slightest, nukes just like any other warring tool is valid and justified... when at war. That's the point right there. Kait is at war with MK. Rok (I don't care about their internal business) has accepted a member amidst their ranks who is at war with MK. Therefore, Rok is at war with MK. It has historically been this way and that's as clear cut a legitimate CB as you can get in CN. Spying, accepting or aiding members at war with an alliance, attacking an ally. Not sure why it's not official at this point, but they are de-facto at war with us through Kait. (Not even by proxy, it's direct). [/quote] Probably the most concise and relevant post in this thread. This is what the RoK government, whoever they are should be working on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordDarknessOfLight Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 So.. After 25 pages.. Has Ragnarok come to a conclusion on: who the government is, will there be a new charter, and the ghosting of Kait nuking Mushroom Kingdom? Like can we end this mess.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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