A Briefest Comment on RIA

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1322858253' post='2859568']
Oh my, the post-war posturing has already begun.
[/quote]

Actions speak louder than words.

[Aeternos Astramora]

So, now that RIA has their new government, can they hurry up on the DoW?

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

Sparta came in late during the BPW but it was for strategic reasons and they played a major role into the victory of C&G&friends. They really blocked our counter-offensive and kept many many Paradoxians at war, that much is sure.

Fighting or not, that's playing an important role. Leave it to rest.

[The Chosen One]

And everybody was like blah, blahhhhhh, blah... Let's shake our fist and hope we can get RIA to go to the war by pointing and calling names without knowing what is really going on, or taking into account that some alliances coordinate with allies and use this strange thing called strategy. Hmmm... Wow... CN is starting to sound like a bunch of grade schoolers on the playground. But I expect nothing less from some.

Edited December 2, 2011 by The Chosen One

[Ardus]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' timestamp='1322861771' post='2859614']
So, now that RIA has their new government, can they hurry up on the DoW?
[/quote]
No, they have to start their planning all over again. Check back around Christmas.

[Holy Empire of Halin]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1322864995' post='2859634']
No, they have to start their planning all over again. Check back around Christmas.
[/quote]
Then they have to vote that plan into action, in which elections will be up again. New gov, new plan, new vote and new elections! Happy new year folks!

Edited December 2, 2011 by Holy Empire of Halin

[Enamel32]

Hey, people defending sparta's honor that have absolutely no obligation to. I can dig that.

GL too all parties involved in this war. It is certainly going to be a fun one.

[rsoxbronco1]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1322858253' post='2859568']
Oh my, the post-war posturing has already begun.
[/quote]
You jumped to the winning side before it started. Act like you're happy!

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='King Louis the II' timestamp='1322856354' post='2859539']
I guess you were too lazy to read the post. Read it again, He is referring to Sparta not defending Ragnarok in BP. If he is saying that the same would apply to Rok-fark in the current war.
[/quote]
No, we're talking about the NpO-VE war. Not to mention that he is referring to something that we did, which was go out to all of our allies and ask them if they would consider going in for us if we were countered against. Regardless of whether or not people said yes or no, we ultimately didn't end up calling on any of them. (\m/ came in on their own choosing)

On that note, I don't see Fark asking RoK for help should they enter in defense of SF.

[Goldie]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1322885981' post='2859846']
On that note, I don't see Fark asking RoK for help should they enter in defense of SF.
[/quote]

Because they know that you would pledge them your support and then join the people fighting SF.

Edited December 3, 2011 by goldielax25

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1322932810' post='2860728']
Because they know that you would pledge them your support and then join the people fighting SF.
[/quote]

i laughed

[EViL0nE]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1322932810' post='2860728']
Because they know that you would pledge them your support and then join the people fighting SF.
[/quote]

That earned a laugh or two from me.

[Crymson]

After all this wait, RIA fails to declare war on the two original combatants, even though their knee-jerk treaty with Polar was intended to protect the latter from one of those (TOP).

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1322975790' post='2861626']
After all this wait, RIA fails to declare war on the two original combatants, even though their knee-jerk treaty with Polar was intended to protect the latter from one of those (TOP).
[/quote]
It's almost as if NpO didn't request assistance until Valhalla hit.

[Ogaden]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1322983260' post='2861951']
It's almost as if NpO didn't request assistance until Valhalla hit.
[/quote]

This is nonsense, our cowardice is legendary.

[Great Lord Moth]

Yeah, the only reason we declared was because everyone else was doing it and didn't want to seem unhip. D:

Nice sig, Gaddy. >.> <.<

[Gobb]

Looks like Ardus has yet again goaded an alliance into defending their ally

[Krack]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1322802370' post='2858993']
As far as Superfriends goes, I dunno. [b]They did dump MK prior to noCB in a really really !@#$%* way, but that let CnG have a chance to shine and build political support, and allowed SF's NS to remain mostly intact for Karma 6 months later, so it's hard to judge them overly much for that.[/b] CSN did some retarded stuff with the DT reps which I still to this day don't understand, but everyone $%&@s up from time to time. Xiph has tried to disband alliances that didn't really deserve it but oh well. [b] SF also have a bit of a habit of going after easy targets and it has caused some high level butthurt[/b], but it in no way compares to the kind of !@#$ Polar has pulled on nearly everyone at some point in their existence. I would much much much prefer to be working WITH SF to round up and roll all of the !@#$%* blue team alliances than to be rolling them if I were still really firmly in that political sphere. Sadly, this is not what we see happening.
[/quote]

I noticed this paragraph and was interested to know if you could expound on your comments; particularly those I bolded. As someone familiar with SuperFriends at the time, you describe a bloc I don't recognize. I'm interested in knowing why you feel the way you do. I'm not going to lie, I find that last bit a tad offensive in light of the fact that FARK and Ragnarok (along with MK) did much of the heavy lifting in Karma.

[Londo Mollari]

[quote name='Krack' timestamp='1322993367' post='2862092']
I noticed this paragraph and was interested to know if you could expound on your comments; particularly those I bolded. As someone familiar with SuperFriends at the time, you describe a bloc I don't recognize. I'm interested in knowing why you feel the way you do. I'm not going to lie, I find that last bit a tad offensive in light of the fact that FARK and Ragnarok (along with MK) did much of the heavy lifting in Karma.
[/quote]

You'd have to ask someone who was in MK's high gov at the time about the Ragnarok and MA cancellations on MK right before the noCB war. Archon, AirMe, or Trace. AirMe is probably the most accessible of those three. I was just a bystander, but what it boiled down to is that SF dropped treaties with MK to avoid getting caught by the NPO's wrath against MK. Having thought about it much after the fact, this doesn't really bother me, and it did not bother me after Karma, as you can perhaps note by the MDoAPs I signed with SF and my support for closer CnG-SF relations. The reason it did not bother me, was because SF used their saved NS to *do* the heavy lifting in Karma, after they ducked out on MK once. GRE was somewhat close to MDoAP with MK pre-noCB as well, and they did essentially the same thing. I really appreciate GRE for the help they gave in Karma, both to me personally in my work and against IRON.

Fark did great work in Karma, and I think RoK did even better. RoK declared the absolute most wars against NPO (by number) of any Karma alliance, and they kept it up for the longest length of time. RoK I would say did the most, then VE, and everyone else on NPO was a good bit behind. Actually, I love RoK to death. I went to war as leader of Athens at RoK's side at least 3 or 4 times, and they were always solid battle buddies. When I needed my ass bailed out when NEW jumped on Athens in addition to TOP, IRON, and the others, iClean and Corp along with RoK were there to give me backup when all of my other allies were either unable or unwilling to help. My respect for RoK's past actions in regard to me and mine is of the highest degree.

However, Fark and RoK are not the only alliances that were in Superfriends, and indeed, neither is in Superfriends now. I was referring to more recent wars (like this last one against NPO) and different SF alliances. Of course, truth be told, they were saving their strength then because they foresaw this day as inevitable, and in some ways it became a self-fulfilling prophecy because it pissed a lot of people off.

However, as I said before, I like pretty much all SF alliances and I consider past actions to be water under the bridge. I am still sad that SG never really properly developed as a world-controlling organization. It would have been a blast.

[Londo Mollari]

[quote name='eyriq' timestamp='1322840244' post='2859385']
Whoa Nelly! You are really driving this pro-hegemony narrative hard. You want to create a multilateral superstructure that can pick off opposition with ease, you would prefer that wars against the old-heg continued, and yet in another thread you mentioned the hardship of our age being wars against political pariahs? If you want something, at least want it for the right reasons. Multilateral organizations are for collective security and pursuit of interests, if you build one that contains 1/4 of all available NS, you are [i]only[/i] going to get wars against political pariahs, because most of the other multilateral orgs will tie themselves bilaterally to your member orgs, leaving only those pariahs that are isolated to be targeted. Fun times?

MK has it right if not a bit too extreme; multilateral orgs should be small and diverse. They seem to prefer there only existing alliances, while what have is something in between with several different blocs, ranging from tier one blocs like the SF/XX cluster and the PB/DH cluster, to your tier two Mj/DR cluster and C&G, to your tier three PF, and then others further down the list. This much diffusion in NS has led to uncertainty but not really that much as we've been enjoying the "Winter is Coming" theme and seen that defining relations. Honestly, like I said in the other thread this current political state is rather new and unique, lets see how it play out before jumping on an old and tired model. Eh?
[/quote]

The uncertainty just means that people will be much much less likely to go to war. There is little uncertain about the outcome of any war. I could see this day and this specific coming when I stepped down as leader of Athens well over a year ago. There was nothing interesting in politics for me because I could already see all the future outcomes for years, and that's part of why I stopped being an alliance leader. However, like most rank and file members (but unlike most political players) I greatly enjoy crushing my enemies and putting their heads on pikes, to the weeping and lamentations of their women. I know how both scenarios would play out, I would simply enjoy a scenario far more where I am crushing people I dislike whenever I feel like it.

[quote name='rsoxbronco1' timestamp='1322856041' post='2859530']
It really is showing a total lack of history to waste any time trying to criticize Sparta's recent history.

Sparta came in for C&G and hit TOP, playing a role that ANYONE in C&G gov/milcom will tell you was absolutely crucial for our victory.

Then last winter Sparta more or less took on AZTEC.

There are some rather well known alliances that have shirked fighting on the front lines in the last couple wars, but Sparta is not one of them.
[/quote]

o/ Sparta. Spot on. Very solid fighters and the very best of allies.

[quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1322874942' post='2859716']
Hey, people defending sparta's honor that have absolutely no obligation to. I can dig that.
[/quote]

It's been fashionable to pick on Sparta for a long time, and I am not quite sure why. They are not pound for pound the best fighting alliance in the world, but I would call them above average, and they are big and they are very loyal and have a good sense of fun. They are some of my favorite people on Bob, and I wish they would come on IRC more often. I talk in their channel often still.

[Schad]

If NpO held off on asking for RIA's assistance until yesterday, it's hard to fault RIA for entering when they did. Cannot say that I'm a fan of the strategy as it has unfolded to date, but such is life.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1322994849' post='2862114']
You'd have to ask someone who was in MK's high gov at the time about the Ragnarok and MA cancellations on MK right before the noCB war. Archon, AirMe, or Trace. AirMe is probably the most accessible of those three. I was just a bystander, but what it boiled down to is that SF dropped treaties with MK to avoid getting caught by the NPO's wrath against MK.[/quote]


Christ. Some things never die. Not that this is the place (not that there really should ever be a "place" any more), but that statement is woefully inaccurate. People can argue until they are blue in the face, but as the person who dropped said treaty I can tell you that it was dropped because we no longer got along and for no other reason ... it was also several MONTHS before NoCB. Do I wish I had tried harder to save it? Absolutely. However, anyone who claims that it was a strategic drop or done out of fear is either a. an idiot or b. someone who just really REALLY wants to believe that and refuses to believe anything else. We held other treaties at the time that would have "gotten us in trouble" with NPO/Q/etc that were not with MK, yet they survived ... funny how that works. Either way, I don't have any issues with MK and haven't for years and while I hope that is mostly mutual, I do get annoyed that I STILL see this garbage posted every now and then all these years and wars later.

MA on the other hand was a knee jerk cancellation and I can completely see why they'd be angry about that one. I never fully understood it myself.

Otherwise it is good to see you're around, Londo. How have you been?

[b]Edit:[/b] Forgot a backslash.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Van Hoo III

[Letum]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1322995652' post='2862126']
It's been fashionable to pick on Sparta for a long time, and I am not quite sure why.
[/quote]

It goes back to a bad performance during Karma. First impressions are hard to get over.

[obscurus]

[quote name='Schad' timestamp='1323003047' post='2862187']
If NpO held off on asking for RIA's assistance until yesterday, it's hard to fault RIA for entering when they did. Cannot say that I'm a fan of the strategy as it has unfolded to date, but such is life.
[/quote]

Oh yes, sure.
And Sea Cows fly, too.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1323012435' post='2862269']
Christ. Some things never die. Not that this is the place (not that there really should ever be a "place" any more), but that statement is woefully inaccurate. People can argue until they are blue in the face, but as the person who dropped said treaty I can tell you that it was dropped because we no longer got along and for no other reason ... it was also several MONTHS before NoCB. Do I wish I had tried harder to save it? Absolutely. However, anyone who claims that it was a strategic drop or done out of fear is either a. an idiot or b. someone who just really REALLY wants to believe that and refuses to believe anything else. We held other treaties at the time that would have "gotten us in trouble" with NPO/Q/etc that were not with MK, yet they survived ... funny how that works. Either way, I don't have any issues with MK and haven't for years and while I hope that is mostly mutual, I do get annoyed that I STILL see this garbage posted every now and then all these years and wars later.

MA on the other hand was a knee jerk cancellation and I can completely see why they'd be angry about that one. I never fully understood it myself.

Otherwise it is good to see you're around, Londo. How have you been?

[b]Edit:[/b] Forgot a backslash.
[/quote]
Backing Hoo up, here. SF-MK relations experienced a breakdown in early '08 that was entirely about events that transpired between the two groups and had little or nothing to do with the Orders or the war that followed months later.