Facade Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1314074867' post='2786656'] What's up with alliances thinking that they can just tell an ally that they've changed their treaty? [/quote] I don't know. I seem to remember going to Polaris to tell them that we wanted to discuss a downgrade. I don't remember changing the treaty without their consent. Best of luck to Polaris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1314074867' post='2786656'] What's up with alliances thinking that they can just tell an ally that they've changed their treaty? [/quote] As far as I'm aware, we went into talks to downgrade the treaty, we didn't actually physically change the treaty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahlanRahl Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1314074867' post='2786656'] What's up with alliances thinking that they can just tell an ally that they've changed their treaty? [/quote] Actually, we didn't change it, or tell them that we had changed it. We approached them to discuss downgrading to an ODAP. Polar did not accept it and so they decided to cancel instead. Edited August 23, 2011 by KahlanRahl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergerberger II Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='KahlanRahl' timestamp='1314075380' post='2786664'] Actually, we didn't change it, or tell them that we had changed it. We approached them to discuss downgrading to an ODAP. Polar did not accept it and so they decided to cancel instead. [/quote] You told me that you had already voted and the vote had passed to downgrade it. That's hardly 'discussing' it with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President S O Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='KahlanRahl' timestamp='1314075380' post='2786664'] Actually, we didn't change it, or tell them that we had changed it. We approached them to discuss downgrading to an ODAP. Polar did not accept it and so they decided to cancel instead. [/quote] [quote name='Mergerberger II' timestamp='1314075901' post='2786670'] You told me that you had already voted and the vote had passed to downgrade it. That's hardly 'discussing' it with us. [/quote] This is where the rest of the thread begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facade Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Mergerberger II' timestamp='1314075901' post='2786670'] You told me that you had already voted and the vote had passed to downgrade it. That's hardly 'discussing' it with us. [/quote] I never once recall saying that we were going to simply downgrade without any discussion from Polaris. I remember quite a bit of stating that we wanted to discuss a downgrade. I'm sure any Polaris diplomats can confirm that through the post I made which they can all view, and I'm also sure you can confirm that through our own discussions TIO wasn't going to simply change the treaty between us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodivine Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Mergerberger, I would call what KahlanRahl stated as our people oked the downgrade so we could proceed to talk to Polar about it and look to having it at that type. If Polar says "No to the downgrade." Then my guess is that TIO would re-evaluate the treaty farther or Polar would just say "Lets just cancel." Seems you jumped the gun and didn't listen to your ally again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahlanRahl Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Myworld' timestamp='1314076467' post='2786676'] Mergerberger, I would call what KahlanRahl stated as our people oked the downgrade so we could proceed to talk to Polar about it and look to having it at that type. If Polar says "No to the downgrade." Then my guess is that TIO would re-evaluate the treaty farther or Polar would just say "Lets just cancel." Seems you jumped the gun and didn't listen to your ally again. [/quote] Yeah, pretty much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave93 Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Best of luck to Polaris in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahlanRahl Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Dave93' timestamp='1314077143' post='2786680'] Best of luck to Polaris in the future. [/quote] Took the post right out of my mouth sir. o/ TIO o/ Polaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanilla Napalm Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Does anyone else find this 'OMG you didn't ask polar before your internal treaty evaluation' a little odd? Asking permission from an Order before making a decision is so cliche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melancholy Culkin Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Talk about one sided xfd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergerberger II Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Facade' timestamp='1314076406' post='2786674'] I never once recall saying that we were going to simply downgrade without any discussion from Polaris. I remember quite a bit of stating that we wanted to discuss a downgrade. I'm sure any Polaris diplomats can confirm that through the post I made which they can all view, and I'm also sure you can confirm that through our own discussions TIO wasn't going to simply change the treaty between us. [/quote] Let me attempt to rephrase. TIO stated to us that they had decided that an MDoAP no longer fit the relationship we had. Instead, as you say, you wished to discuss a downgrade to an ODP. When I suggested multiple times that we work on the relationship without downgrading the treaty, it was ignored or otherwise shrugged off, which means to me that you had already made your decision. You said time and again that you had made your decision. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to interpret you telling me 'we have voted to downgrade our treaty' in any way other than you are planning on downgrading the treaty. Yes, you came to discuss it with us, and that is commendable, but in the end, you had already made your decision. It's pretty clear from past precedent that Polaris does not believe that unilaterally downgrading a treaty like this is okay, and I would expect you to be fully aware of that. Additionally, let me assure you that the decision by TIO to downgrade the treaty was by no means the entire reason for the cancelation. No, there were other things, which I have conveyed to you in private, that contributed much more to our decision. The downgrade is merely something that should be addressed, because, as Random has stated, it's not okay. Edited August 23, 2011 by Mergerberger II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokula Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Best of luck to TIO, sorry things did not work out. However come visit us on Thursday nights, that's when we have My Little Pony sleepovers, we eat cake and have pillow fights. o/ TIO hugs and stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 And the trainwreck that is TIO-NpO relations finally gets derailed. If only TIO.... if only.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonator21 Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Congrats on the changes, especially the cancellation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomInterrupt Posted August 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1314074867' post='2786656'] What's up with alliances thinking that they can just tell an ally that they've changed their treaty? [/quote] I don't understand but I wish it would stop. It seems to be the new fad, and it's a terrible one. [quote name='Myworld' timestamp='1314076467' post='2786676'] Mergerberger, I would call what KahlanRahl stated as our people oked the downgrade so we could proceed to talk to Polar about it and look to having it at that type. If Polar says "No to the downgrade." Then my guess is that TIO would re-evaluate the treaty farther or Polar would just say "Lets just cancel." Seems you jumped the gun and didn't listen to your ally again. [/quote] Seems like you jumped the gun and are issuing judgement without fact. It's pretty simple really. TIO informed us that they had already voted to "downgrade" our treaty to an ODP and there was nothing we could do about it, even if we wanted to. If that is not true, then they made an error in their communication with us. Which wouldn't surprise me at all here as there has been quite a few errors on communication which added to this cancellation being necessary. I can't work off what an ally is planning to do, I have to work off what they inform us they are doing. I'm not a mind reader. Let's not turn this into an argument though because it ultimately doesn't much matter. It highlights the communication issues that we experienced and further justifies my decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Liebenow Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Congratulations, TIO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgoods45 Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Congrats, Polaris. Congrats,TIO. Congrats again to Polar for the charter changes. Edited August 23, 2011 by Jgoods45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 I'm not even gonna bother reading this thread or getting involved in what may or may not be happening ... Just gotta say this is good for TIO - now, come back to White Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Mockingbird Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Timberland' timestamp='1314074328' post='2786646'] Good job TIO you're better off without NpO [/quote] It always gets me when someone says, "Congrats x alliance, you're better off without y alliance." TIO wont be any better off because TIO is a terrible alliance and is still allied to a bunch of equally terrible alliances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yevgeni Luchenkov Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Hopefully, the Body Republic of the New Polaris Order make use, in due haste, of this new disposition in its Charter. Edited August 23, 2011 by Yevgeni Luchenkov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='RandomInterrupt' timestamp='1314079638' post='2786703'] I don't understand but I wish it would stop. It seems to be the new fad, and it's a terrible one. [/quote] Oh please don't tell me you honestly are thinking that the treaty itself was changed? Come on Random, you're better than that. [quote name='RandomInterrupt' timestamp='1314079638' post='2786703']It highlights the communication issues that we experienced and further justifies my decision. [/quote] Which is exactly why the treaty didn't reflect the relationship we had. [quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1314080702' post='2786710'] I'm not even gonna bother reading this thread or getting involved in what may or may not be happening ... Just gotta say this is good for TIO - now, come back to White [/quote] Now now, last time we were on white, we didn't exactly live very long. My official stance on that is "My bad" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dajobo Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Skippy no one is talking about the text being changed. Once the intent has been changed and TIO's commitment had changed then the treaty, not the words has changed. In this case we regard a great many of you as friends and genuinely wish you all the success and prosperity in the world, but a treaty is no longer viable. I intend on staying in touch with friends and remembering the good times we had as allies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Tequila Mockingbird' timestamp='1314081227' post='2786713'] It always gets me when someone says, "Congrats x alliance, you're better off without y alliance." TIO wont be any better off because TIO is a terrible alliance and is still allied to a bunch of equally terrible alliances. [/quote] NO U Is all I have to say to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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