Is This Legit?

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1313133981' post='2778492']
The problem here is with the notion that Mj is within the MK/PB sphere of influence. We have much stronger ties to other parts of the web, namely AZTEC and Duckroll. I know that DT has always been quite amicable with MK and some members of PB. That does not mean that we consider ourselves bound to them nor do we expect them to think the same of us.

What I'm getting at is that a lot of us in Mjolnir don't really have an agenda that has much to do with MK and I think Ardus meant that his agenda doesn't have much to do with us. The fact is, we like each other quite a bit, but there's no real romance or hatred. If you're right and they decide to move against us one day down the road, that'll be fine, but it won't be because of Mj acting for power. I don't expect MK/PB to come knocking at our door a few months after SF gets knocked down because it's our turn to get punched.
[/quote]


If that is the actual Mj stance on this, good luck in making it work. Like I said earlier, I have no love at all for SF/XX members and seeing them take the pipe is all well and good. But I actually do like some of the Mj alliances and the DR alliances like Iron/ML/BAPS too.

After seeing DH/PB/CnG and company use for gain and then eat up so many alliances over the past 3 years I really can't see how it seems to be a good idea to help them out if you aren't in one of the blocs Ardus mentioned securing power for in the OP.

[Biff Webster]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1313133981' post='2778492']
The problem here is with the notion that Mj is within the MK/PB sphere of influence. We have much stronger ties to other parts of the web, namely AZTEC and Duckroll. I know that DT has always been quite amicable with MK and some members of PB. That does not mean that we consider ourselves bound to them nor do we expect them to think the same of us.

What I'm getting at is that a lot of us in Mjolnir don't really have an agenda that has much to do with MK and I think Ardus meant that his agenda doesn't have much to do with us. The fact is, we like each other quite a bit, but there's no real romance or hatred. If you're right and they decide to move against us one day down the road, that'll be fine, but it won't be because of Mj acting for power. I don't expect MK/PB to come knocking at our door a few months after SF gets knocked down because it's our turn to get punched.


I'm not sure why you think Mj is doing their bidding, mind elaborating? I presume that's what you meant, as I won't be handling any of their crotch protection...
[/quote]

Whatever successes you might have will be shared with MK, and they will more likely than not get the bigger share. This is the "nominal influence" you've accepted. I wouldn't worry about it, though. VE has been doing it since Karma and they don't seem too upset about it, yet.

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1313134804' post='2778494']
After seeing DH/PB/CnG and company use for gain and then eat up so many alliances over the past 3 years I really can't see how it seems to be a good idea to help them out if you aren't in one of the blocs Ardus mentioned securing power for in the OP.
[/quote]
Is anyone else sharing my difficulty in remembering these purported victims?

[lebubu]

hail the biumvirate..

[EViL0nE]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1313131815' post='2778470']
SF and NPO, their sworn enemies.
[/quote]
...You realize MK was allied to GOD not terribly long ago, right?
...You realize that GOONS was allied to GOD and CSN not terribly long ago, right?
...You realize that half of Bob was treatied to NPO not terribly long before Karma, right?

Going from ally to "sworn enemy" doesn't take long and you'd do well not to assume too much regarding the level of friendship you actually have.

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1313134804' post='2778494']
After seeing DH/PB/CnG and company use for gain and then eat up so many alliances over the past 3 years I really can't see how it seems to be a good idea to help them out if you aren't in one of the blocs Ardus mentioned securing power for in the OP.
[/quote]

Mind reminding me of all the alliances we've hunted down and killed? I mean, two of the entities you listed there aren't even a year old.

Edit: Grammar.

Edited August 12, 2011 by Leet Guy

[flak attack]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1313118952' post='2778292']snip
[/quote]
Welp. Thread over. Zog just nailed the entire line of discussion we were having.

[quote name='Natan' timestamp='1313133756' post='2778490']
[b]cupbearer?[/b]

this whole time we were holding something else
[/quote]
Don't worry. We keep that in a cup when we play sports. It's close enough.

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1313134804' post='2778494']
After seeing DH/PB/CnG and company use for gain and then eat up so many alliances over the past 3 years I really can't see how it seems to be a good idea to help them out if you aren't in one of the blocs Ardus mentioned securing power for in the OP.
[/quote]
[url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=30717]I don't suppose you remember what was happening three years and a day ago, do you?[/url]

Seems odd to say we were using anyone back them. Or do you use a different history than the rest of us?

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1313133640' post='2778489']
Yes, because you guys hold no political sway at all. Your Prince's speech to FOK which appears to have spurred them into cancelling on Fark certainly doesn't show that you hold any sway.
[/quote]
I didn't say we hold no political sway at all, but some people greatly overestimate it. For example you attribute this breakup between C&G and PB and the SF sphere to MK (and PB to a lesser extent) and imply that we just arbitrarily changed our mind about SF and didn't "allow" it to exist any more, when there are plenty of people that dislike SF that aren't us and arrived at that separately from us, plenty that SF has done to make that happen, and outside influences as well (the TOP/Polar rivalry comes to mind).

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='lebubu' timestamp='1313141920' post='2778505']
hail the biumvirate..
[/quote]
Prince Lebubu, I'm going to digress and tell you that your avatars are the best avatars.

Cupbearing ftw.

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1313134804' post='2778494']
After seeing DH/PB/CnG and company use for gain and then eat up so many alliances over the past 3 years I really can't see how it seems to be a good idea to help them out if you aren't in one of the blocs Ardus mentioned securing power for in the OP.
[/quote]

I see that somebody is looking ahead to the next WPE Competition. You're off to a marvelous start.

[Mogar]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1313157783' post='2778559']
Welp. Thread over. Zog just nailed the entire line of discussion we were having.


Don't worry. We keep that in a cup when we play sports. It's close enough.


[url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=30717]I don't suppose you remember what was happening three years and a day ago, do you?[/url]

Seems odd to say we were using anyone back them. Or do you use a different history than the rest of us?
[/quote]
You're going to compare DH/PB/CnG to Q?

[Daimos]

To MJ,

In a scenario SF/XX vs. PB/DH/C&G war. Will MJ stay neutral?

Note: Do not know if any MJ alliance have any MDP's with any of the alliances in those blocs.

Edited August 12, 2011 by Daimos

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1313134804' post='2778494']
If that is the actual Mj stance on this, good luck in making it work. Like I said earlier, I have no love at all for SF/XX members and seeing them take the pipe is all well and good. But I actually do like some of the Mj alliances and the DR alliances like Iron/ML/BAPS too.

After seeing DH/PB/CnG and company use for gain and then eat up so many alliances over the past 3 years I really can't see how it seems to be a good idea to help them out if you aren't in one of the blocs Ardus mentioned securing power for in the OP.
[/quote]

Can you clarify for me, just who DH/PB/CnG ate up after using for gain? This should be an interesting answer.

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1313170355' post='2778649']
You're going to compare DH/PB/CnG to Q?
[/quote]

It is quite clear that he means that entire episode was, and has been proven time and time again, to have been all about getting to MK, and stepping on people to get to them. Whereas today, he has laid the same accusation at MK and cited "past examples" of this happening, except, he has not provided said examples. Remember Mogar, it was you, in that linked thread, the was supporting the rolling of alliances over 2 tech deals cuz you had friends who said the person doing the deals could never OOC: play the game (OOC) : again. Leet was simply providing a reminder, that when you accuse someone of something, its generally a good idea (Vol being a TPF member), that a) you provide legit examples and b) you arent bathing in the tub of hypocrisy.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1313172991' post='2778688']
It is quite clear that he means that entire episode was, and has been proven time and time again, to have been all about getting to MK, and stepping on people to get to them. Whereas today, he has laid the same accusation at MK and cited "past examples" of this happening, except, he has not provided said examples. Remember Mogar, it was you, in that linked thread, the was supporting the rolling of alliances over 2 tech deals cuz you had friends who said the person doing the deals could never OOC: play the game (OOC) : again. Leet was simply providing a reminder, that when you accuse someone of something, its generally a good idea (Vol being a TPF member), that a) you provide legit examples and b) you arent bathing in the tub of hypocrisy.
[/quote]

MK was quite cozy with Polar until it served them better to throw them to the wolves. MK used to be pretty cozy with SF too. Now they quite clearly want SF dead.

Q done some fairly similar things. NPO was very close to FAN until it became for them to go after FAN. Had FAN done some bad things that could be spun to make them look like total dick heads? Yes they had. However, in this day in age FAN is hailed as great people who were wrongfully attacked and bravely held out against all odds. Polar and BLEU had done some very dick headed things pre-WotC, but you and CnG gladly stood up for them. It's pretty obvious the examples are extremely similar.

Is this truth more truthful coming from me since I had absolutely 0 ties to NPO pre-Karma?

[Mogar]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1313172991' post='2778688']
It is quite clear that he means that entire episode was, and has been proven time and time again, to have been all about getting to MK, and stepping on people to get to them. Whereas today, he has laid the same accusation at MK and cited "past examples" of this happening, except, he has not provided said examples. Remember Mogar, it was you, in that linked thread, the was supporting the rolling of alliances over 2 tech deals cuz you had friends who said the person doing the deals could never OOC: play the game (OOC) : again. Leet was simply providing a reminder, that when you accuse someone of something, its generally a good idea (Vol being a TPF member), that a) you provide legit examples and b) you arent bathing in the tub of hypocrisy.
[/quote]
I wouldn't connect the current TPF gov with anything they did while in Q, there isn't a single person on that list of gov members still in the alliance, when you're in that comfortable of a political position, you tend to be able to act arrogant, I dont think any bloc will ever compare to the hegemony we had over the world during that time. I mean, for admin's sake, we attacked GPA [i]because we were bored and wanted tech/land,[/i] something like that couldn't ever happen again.

edit: and for the record, I'm not going to even attempt to defend my actions with TPF's MoFA, I supported what my leader wanted, it wasn't about "is this morally right?" it was about "what does slayer want to happen?", and I doubt I was the first nor will I be the last to follow my leaders into hell, though I do enjoy acknowledging I predicted Karma, hence my departure from TPF gov, but nobody wanted to do anything about it because people were stupid and thought treaties actually mattered, and couldn't be canceled.

Edited August 12, 2011 by Mogar

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1313173761' post='2778701']
MK was quite cozy with Polar until it served them better to throw them to the wolves.[/quote]
You're absolutely delusional if you don't think MK had perfectly good reason to cancel on Polaris.

[quote]MK used to be pretty cozy with SF too. Now they quite clearly want SF dead. [/quote]
It's been confirmed quite a few times that SG was more of a "let's make sure NPO doesn't get us back" thing. There are other precautions for that and SF's behavior during the last war in particular shows that they have no interest in playing fairly with anyone else. I can respect that, but you can't say that it isn't deserving of punishment to go against an entire coalition.

[quote]Q done some fairly similar things. NPO was very close to FAN until it became for them to go after FAN. Had FAN done some bad things that could be spun to make them look like total dick heads? Yes they had. However, in this day in age FAN is hailed as great people who were wrongfully attacked and bravely held out against all odds.[/quote]
FAN were hailed because the second time they were attacked was !@#$%^&* and they stuck to their guns. Nothing more.

[quote]Polar and BLEU had done some very dick headed things pre-WotC, but you and CnG gladly stood up for them. It's pretty obvious the examples are extremely similar.[/quote]
MK was in it for GR and CnG, and thought they wouldn't come out of it. GR was in it more for Hyperion than Polaris iirc. You can make the argument that upholding MDPs is wrong, but hey!

[quote]Is this truth more truthful coming from me since I had absolutely 0 ties to NPO pre-Karma?
[/quote]
It makes you even more !@#$% and uninformed, actually.

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1313173805' post='2778702']
I wouldn't connect the current TPF gov with anything they did while in Q, there isn't a single person on that list of gov members still in the alliance, when you're in that comfortable of a political position, you tend to be able to act arrogant, I dont think any bloc will ever compare to the hegemony we had over the world during that time. I mean, for admin's sake, we attacked GPA [i]because we were bored and wanted tech/land,[/i] something like that couldn't ever happen again.

edit: and for the record, I'm not going to even attempt to defend my actions with TPF's MoFA, I supported what my leader wanted, it wasn't about "is this morally right?" it was about "what does slayer want to happen?", and I doubt I was the first nor will I be the last to follow my leaders into hell, though I do enjoy acknowledging I predicted Karma, hence my departure from TPF gov, but nobody wanted to do anything about it because people were stupid and thought treaties actually mattered, and couldn't be canceled.
[/quote]
[i]I was just following orders[/i]

[Mogar]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1313179623' post='2778761']
[i]I was just following orders[/i]
[/quote]
not to that extent, I have my limitations, supporting my allies in their decisions publicly is different than privately discussing my issues with their subject, as most allies tend to do, there isnt many good reasons to air dirty laundry in public, unless it hurts your opponents of course.

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1313173761' post='2778701']
MK was quite cozy with Polar until it served them better to throw them to the wolves. MK used to be pretty cozy with SF too. Now they quite clearly want SF dead.

Q done some fairly similar things. NPO was very close to FAN until it became for them to go after FAN. Had FAN done some bad things that could be spun to make them look like total dick heads? Yes they had. However, in this day in age FAN is hailed as great people who were wrongfully attacked and bravely held out against all odds. Polar and BLEU had done some very dick headed things pre-WotC, but you and CnG gladly stood up for them. It's pretty obvious the examples are extremely similar.

Is this truth more truthful coming from me since I had absolutely 0 ties to NPO pre-Karma?
[/quote]


Quite cozy with Polar????????????? I will just assume that you were gone when MK made public their entire 400-some-odd page embassy thread with Polar. No human being can read that and say "They were quite cozy with them." The truth is, Polar dug their own grave with MK, MK did not manipulate them into repeated attacks or threats on allies and allies of allies. With each move, Polar eroded the support they had from MK. If you want to willfully ignore the facts of the Polar-MK relationship, be my guest, but you will literally be laughed at by almost everyone with 2 brains cells to rub together on that front.

[zzzptm]

[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1313172401' post='2778675']
To MJ,

In a scenario SF/XX vs. PB/DH/C&G war. Will MJ stay neutral?

Note: Do not know if any MJ alliance have any MDP's with any of the alliances in those blocs.
[/quote]

MJ will be on the ToonSquad, opposing the Monstars. MJ will fight to return the skills of the NBA all-stars to their rightful owners.

Any further questions for MJ can be directed to MJ's publicist, Stan Podolak. Stan, why don't you pop in and say hi?

[img]http://www2.warnerbros.com/spacejam/movie/cmp/lineup/img/cast/knight.jpg[/img]

Don't worry, though. MJ is on *your* side, unless you're fighting against them. Then they're not on your side. Those are the breaks.

[i][size="1"]DISCLAIMER: The above is not an official statement from the Mjolnir bloc. It's just idle speculation on the part of a member of a signatory alliance to Mjolnir. All rights reserved. Anyone quoting this post, in full or in part, must send me a payment of 50 tech as a royalty. Thank you and God bless.[/size][/i]

[Boy George]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1313173761' post='2778701']
MK was quite cozy with Polar until it served them better to throw them to the wolves.
[/quote]

You've gotta be kidding me. I don't think even Xiphosis lies this hard.

[D34th]

Well, at least Mk always was very cozy with me.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1313132721' post='2778480']
The ability of some people to project an MK-centric view about everything that happens would be impressive if it weren't so tiresome.
[/quote]
And so, now, MK has truly attained NPO's former roll, shall their fate be the same?

[King Wally]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1313193000' post='2778946']
And so, now, MK has truly attained NPO's former roll, shall their fate be the same?
[/quote]

I was just starting to think the same thing...