Is This Legit?

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1313082110' post='2777610']
MK's relationship with GOD went sour when Xiph decided that we couldn't ally TOP because according to him they weren't allowed on our "side". It's because we wouldn't be his lapdog, not the other way around. Our relationship with Polar soured after all the drama in bipolar and an Emperor coming to power that openly disliked MK. For MK's part we don't care that that much about Polar, it's our allies that do.

Try again?
[/quote]

Exactly, Xiph doesn't like TOP so you decided to make him your enemy. That's pretty cut and dry. Anyone who thinks for themselves are dangerous right?

[Vladimir Nikanor]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1313081627' post='2777605']I hope NoR realizes this pretty quickly and has a contingency plan post-war.[/quote]
We plan for things; this being one of them. Unfortunately

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1313082421' post='2777612']
Exactly, Xiph doesn't like TOP so you decided to make him your enemy. That's pretty cut and dry. Anyone who thinks for themselves are dangerous right?
[/quote]
And then he cancelled on GOONS over it. And then he let his grudges and delusions of grandeur complicate a lot of things in the last war. And then he supported a (OOC)Nazi hunt(/OOC) against our friends in Nordreich.

It went way beyond simply not liking TOP.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Azaghul

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1313081627' post='2777605']
For a long time, MK and GOD were great buddies. MK will easily turn on you if you don't want to be their lapdogs like FOK, GOONS, and others. The same thing happened to Polar. I hope NoR realizes this pretty quickly and has a contingency plan post-war.
[/quote]
Oh okay, so we're doing the MK=old NPO thing again are we? Sorry to shatter your delusions, but the GOONS-MK relationship is not one of servitude, and I challenge you to provide a single shred of evidence that we are lapdogs.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Sardonic

[Jgoods45]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1313081627' post='2777605']
I think most people here would agree with you that Xiphosis is a huge dick head. Hell, I'm still hoping to see CSN get what they deserve, but hopefully people wake up after then and see that MK is picking targets like the hegemony of old is and honestly no one is safe from being picked next.

For a long time, MK and GOD were great buddies. MK will easily turn on you if you don't want to be their lapdogs like FOK, GOONS, and others. The same thing happened to Polar. I hope NoR realizes this pretty quickly and has a contingency plan post-war.
[/quote]

It's post like these that makes me think that you have finally gone !@#$% insane, old friend.

[D34th]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1313083362' post='2777625']
Oh okay, so we're doing the MK=old NPO thing again are we? Sorry to shatter your delusions, but the GOONS-MK relationship is not one of servitude, and I challenge you to provide a single shred of evidence that we are lapdogs.
[/quote]

That's what you want to believe to be able to sleep at night.

[Timberland]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1313082421' post='2777612']
Exactly, Xiph doesn't like TOP so you decided to make him your enemy. That's pretty cut and dry. Anyone who thinks for themselves are dangerous right?
[/quote]

Why should Xiph be able to tell other alliances who and who they can't ally with ? For instance the MK/TOP treaty, he cancels with GOONS. [i](ooc It reminds me of my 2 yr old throwing a temper tantrum)[/i].

edit: Azaghul beat me to it, you're quick buddy.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Timberland

[Sardonic]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1313083700' post='2777631']
That's what you want to believe to be able to sleep at night.
[/quote]
Cute. How about you give me an example of MK undermining our sovereignty?

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1313082783' post='2777618']
And then he cancelled on GOONS over it. And then he let his grudges and delusions of grandeur complicate a lot of things in the last war. And then he supported a (OOC)Nazi hunt(/OOC) against our friends in Nordreich.

It went way beyond simply not liking TOP.
[/quote]
Are you claiming it wasn't true?

Don't get me wrong--unlike Ardus I have [i]actually [/i]been called a NAZI-lover for my support of Norden Verein and Nordreich--I find Fark and GOD's little game distasteful, but the nazi in question is far from a kid playing dressup.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1313083362' post='2777625']
Oh okay, so we're doing the MK=old NPO thing again are we? Sorry to shatter your delusions, but the GOONS-MK relationship is not one of servitude, and I challenge you to provide a single shred of evidence that we are lapdogs.
[/quote][quote name='D34th' timestamp='1313083700' post='2777631']
That's what you want to believe to be able to sleep at night.
[/quote]
Now, now D34th, I think we can all wait to see what happens with the GOONS-CSN treaty before we pass judgement.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Schattenmann

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1313083903' post='2777635']
Now, now D34th, I think we can all wait to see what happens with the GOONS-CSN treaty before we pass judgement.
[/quote]
MK's opinion of the treaty had nothing to do with why we cancelled it, which is none of your damn business.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Sardonic

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1313083903' post='2777635']
Are you claiming it wasn't true?


Now, now D34th, I think we can all wait to see what happens with the GOONS-CSN treaty before we pass judgement.
[/quote]


You know what's happened with that treaty, It's been cancelled. Now how that has anything to do with MK putting pressure on us is beyond me. GOONS made that decision not MK. Again if you have some proof that MK forced us to cancel on CSN then please enlighten us all and post up, If not I'm going to assume you know $%&@ all, as usual.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1313083903' post='2777635']
Now, now D34th, I think we can all wait to see what happens with the GOONS-CSN treaty before we pass judgement.
[/quote]

According to the GOONS public records and confirmation from Sardonic and Xiphosis, it was cancelled.

Edit: Well the fact that you were being sarcastic completely flew over my head.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Jrenster

[D34th]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1313083885' post='2777634']
Cute. How about you give me an example of MK undermining our sovereignty?
[/quote]

Mr. Schattenmann answered this one for me with a brand new example. Of course you will claim that's not the case and the fact that your treaty with a SF member was canceled at the same time that MK starts to actively work to isolate SF was just a coincidence, after all related events that happens in cyberverse are just a big coincidence.

Edited August 11, 2011 by D34th

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1313084068' post='2777637']
MK's opinion of the treaty had nothing to do with why we cancelled it, which is none of your damn business.
[/quote]
Well, color me surprised. I must have missed the announcement. But now that [i]issss[/i] quite a coincidence.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Schattenmann

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1313084391' post='2777646']
Well, color me surprised. I must have missed the announcement. But now that [i]issss[/i] quite a coincidence.
[/quote]
Much to my chagrin, it was "announced" in the SF Q&A by Xiphosis 48 hours or whatever into the cancellation period. (read: before this drama about the post blew up).

[ChairmanHal]

All this is very exciting, but unanswered would be this, unless I missed it: a leading figure in MK gives his private thoughts to an ally and subsequently those thoughts end up where someone can scoop them up and post them here.

Nice OPSEC?

[MCRABT]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1313074428' post='2777534']
Nowhere did he say he thought they should have [i]less[/i] influence. Nor did he say that we'd work to isolate them. If that was the case, signing a treaty with Nordreich would be pretty silly.
[/quote]

In the overall context of the post it would make perfect sense. The arguing over semantics in this thread is hilarious from both "sides".

It is actually quite refreshing to see some well articulated real Realpolitik. Thank you Ardus.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1313084861' post='2777651']
All this is very exciting, but unanswered would be this, unless I missed it: a leading figure in MK gives his private thoughts to an ally and subsequently those thoughts end up where someone can scoop them up and post them here.

Nice OPSEC?
[/quote]


They should have just closed all their embassies right? I mean to save on OPSEC or the potential for a leak.

[Diabloz]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1313084288' post='2777642']
Mr. Schattenmann answered this one for me with a brand new example. Of course you will claim that's not the case and the fact that your treaty with a SF member was canceled at the same time that MK starts to actively work to isolate SF was just a coincidence, after all related events that happens in cyberverse are just a big coincidence.
[/quote]

You clearly don't know what you talking about, sorry to say. So when did MK start actively isolating SF according to your eyes?

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1313084861' post='2777651']
All this is very exciting, but unanswered would be this, unless I missed it: a leading figure in MK gives his private thoughts to an ally and subsequently those thoughts end up where someone can scoop them up and post them here.

Nice OPSEC?
[/quote]
Ho, ho:
[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1312898401' post='2775808']
FOK has a lot of active and globally-minded members; some of the best Vox stuff came from FOK. It was through a member vote that FOK left Continuum. Governments can decide on the course they want to take, but at the end of the day they have to sell it to their members or risk lots of dissent.
[/quote]
[quote name='Diabloz' timestamp='1313085173' post='2777655']
You clearly don't know what you talking about, sorry to say. So when did MK start actively isolating SF according to your eyes?
[/quote]
. . . You did read the OP, didn't you?
edit: The answer to your question, anyway, is July 21 when Ardus posted that vision.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Schattenmann

[Bob Janova]

What's more interesting than the content of the post (which is a fairly sensible, if moderately aggressive, FA vision from an alliance in MK's position) is the desperate attempts to row back on what is said in there about Mjolnir. (And I imagine there is some serious revision going on in Mjolnir embassies and shared IRC at the moment, too.) What that shows is that MK is trying to play both sides, perhaps with the hope of playing blocs outside their core (C&G, and possibly Doomhouse) off against each other in the next major war.

[Ryan Greenberg]

[quote name='Diabloz' timestamp='1313085173' post='2777655']
You clearly don't know what you talking about, sorry to say. So when did MK start actively isolating SF according to your eyes?
[/quote]
I'd say it started when the GOD-GOONS treaty was canceled. Once the VE-Polar War ended, it was in full throtle. MK has no need for SF/XX now. They have CnG, Mj, TOP, PB(maybe excluding VE), and PF all backing them. In the Post-Karma era, MK needed SuperFreinds to take down Citadel/ex-hegemony and that's why SuperGrievences was formed. It's not like they're on a Moralist crusade against Xiphosis similar to NPO in Karma. Xiphosis has been the way he is for years and MK and their sphere have now just recently started to smear SuperFreinds' crimes.

I must applaud Ardus for his brilliant strategy in isolating SF and building new allies. Very evil of you.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1313086634' post='2777674']
What's more interesting than the content of the post (which is a fairly sensible, if moderately aggressive, FA vision from an alliance in MK's position) is the desperate attempts to row back on what is said in there about Mjolnir. (And I imagine there is some serious revision going on in Mjolnir embassies and shared IRC at the moment, too.) What that shows is that MK is trying to play both sides, perhaps with the hope of playing blocs outside their core (C&G, and possibly Doomhouse) off against each other in the next major war.
[/quote]
Yep. It's Ardus' m.o.; see The Dolomus Files, or if you wan a more current idea of his mindset there are plenty of tidbits in the [url="http://cntalkshow.podomatic.com/entry/2011-08-10T20_04_57-07_00"]current edition of CN Talkshow[/url](particularly at 22:15 during the discussion that begins at 21:00).

[janax]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1313087259' post='2777700']
Yep. It's Ardus' m.o.; see The Dolomus Files, or if you wan a more current idea of his mindset there are plenty of tidbits in the [url="http://cntalkshow.podomatic.com/entry/2011-08-10T20_04_57-07_00"]current edition of CN Talkshow[/url](particularly at 22:15 during the discussion that begins at 21:00).
[/quote]

Boycott CN Talkshow due to considering Mj and the Tentacle Grape War as more important than PF.

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1313086717' post='2777677']
I'd say it started when the GOD-GOONS treaty was canceled. Once the VE-Polar War ended, it was in full throtle. MK has no need for SF/XX now. They have CnG, Mj, TOP, PB(maybe excluding VE), and PF all backing them. In the Post-Karma era, MK needed SuperFreinds to take down Citadel/ex-hegemony and that's why SuperGrievences was formed. It's not like they're on a Moralist crusade against Xiphosis similar to NPO in Karma. Xiphosis has been the way he is for years and MK and their sphere have now just recently started to smear SuperFreinds' crimes.

I must applaud Ardus for his brilliant strategy in isolating SF and building new allies. Very evil of you.
[/quote]

VE has its out now as well with an ODPish treaty just posted with TOP. Minus this little public annoyance MK is playing it very well. I would not be suprised to see a member or two of XX finding some outs by new treaty as well. I suppose SF does not have much in the way of cards to play beyond just getting through the storm and working on revenge post war.