Declaration of War

[Sardonic]

Without treading too much ground that has been covered already; the very idea that MI6 would set us up is laughable.

 

Shooting first and asking questions later is not a viable war policy.  We learned that years ago.  Additionally, if you wanted to go to war, just do it, don't even bother with a CB like this, which the loosest attempt to verify from MI6 would probably have solved.

 

I explicitly told you that the idea that this was some MI6 set up was laughable when you asked me, you really should have trusted me on that.

 

I would also apologize to MI6 for this mess, though it seems to be working itself out.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Sardonic

[Neo Uruk]

No idea who the hell he is, but he joined Kaskus last night right before update, immediately declared 2 wars, and then Smurf came to me asking for him to eventually get white peace.
 
You can imagine my response to that.

I'm glad you didn't choke on your laughter!

[Unknown Smurf]

 
No idea who the hell he is, but he joined Kaskus last night right before update, immediately declared 2 wars, and then Smurf came to me asking for him to eventually get white peace.
 
You can imagine my response to that.

Not eventual.. immediate as he was unaware that "mercenaries" would be treated differently at the point of his joining.

Moot point though as he decided to stay regardless.

And the guy is L_H on irc .. lavender town/RIOT guy.

[Chauncey]

I admit it seems it was a misunderstanding between GOONS and MI6. . But working with the facts I had at the time this was the only logical conclusion. My attempts to figure out whether the conclusion was true or not was met with silence... whether that was inactivity or intentional stonewalling I couldn't tell you, but at the time I believed it to be the latter.

 

Heh, it wasn't even a miscommunication between MI6 and GOONS. It was a minor internal miscommunication within GOONS that didn't have anything to do with MI6.

 

As for your attempts being met by silence, the thread in our embassy proves that wrong. Stagger clearly replied, as did others. The logical conclusion would have been to maybe suspect MI6 of foul play, but then to contact GOONS to clarify things first; not to suspect MI6 of foul play, accuse MI6 without double checking with GOONS, and then when MI6 truthfully responds that we have no idea what you are talking about, respond by going to war. This wasn't even a time sensitive issue. If you would have waited one more day to hit us, to ensure you have the story straight, your attack still would have been just as much of a surprise. So you can't really claim to have acted in a logical manner throughout this process. It is clear to everyone that it was the opposite.

 

Have fun blowing each other up, more DBDC references please, they make me smile.

 

If you are the baby in that sig then you got me. You are too cute for me to resist. DBDC DBDC DBDC

[Neo Uruk]

wait L_H is brittben

this is somehow news to me

WHAT THE FUCK MAN

[Unknown Smurf]

 
Heh, it wasn't even a miscommunication between MI6 and GOONS. It was a minor internal miscommunication within GOONS that didn't have anything to do with MI6.

 
As for your attempts being met by silence, the thread in our embassy proves that wrong. Stagger clearly replied, as did others. The logical conclusion would have been to maybe suspect MI6 of foul play, but then to contact GOONS to clarify things first; not to suspect MI6 of foul play, accuse MI6 without double checking with GOONS, and then when MI6 truthfully responds that we have no idea what you are talking about, respond by going to war. This wasn't even a time sensitive issue. If you would have waited one more day to hit us, to ensure you have the story straight, your attack still would have been just as much of a surprise. So you can't really claim to have acted in a logical manner throughout this process. It is clear to everyone that it was the opposite.

I did "double check" with GOONS and MI6.. originally the claim was that MI6 was not involved at all... the embassy topic was to just see if mi6 maintained they had no connection to the incident at all... but instead stagger went into an immediate defensive "oh it was a misunderstanding" dance.. which seemed like a back pedal at the time.

Though I see now that some members of MI6 are either not as informed as they think they are or like to pretend they are more informed than they actually are.

[Charles the Tyrant]

I did "double check" with GOONS and MI6.. originally the claim was that MI6 was not involved at all... the embassy topic was to just see if mi6 maintained they had no connection to the incident at all... but instead stagger went into an immediate defensive "oh it was a misunderstanding" dance.. which seemed like a back pedal at the time.

Though I see now that some members of MI6 are either not as informed as they think they are or like to pretend they are more informed than they actually are.

 

 

He means you should have talked to them before jumping the gun, especially as Milton had already informed you I was incorrect in what I had told you. It was a misunderstanding between Milton and myself on what had happened. I communicated to you incorrect information. This was explained to you by Milton yesterday.

 

 

 

I am in awe of your double checking skills.

 

Cut the crap, you wanted a war and now you have one after engineering a CB, it's ok. We get it. Everyone knows the CB is crappy so there really is no need to try justify it, these who dislike us will mindlessly support your cause and in your mind I guess that justifies today's actions.

 

No need to fret over it :)

Edited September 23, 2014 by Charles the Tyrant

[Chauncey]

I did "double check" with GOONS and MI6.. originally the claim was that MI6 was not involved at all... the embassy topic was to just see if mi6 maintained they had no connection to the incident at all... but instead stagger went into an immediate defensive "oh it was a misunderstanding" dance.. which seemed like a back pedal at the time.

Though I see now that some members of MI6 are either not as informed as they think they are or like to pretend they are more informed than they actually are.

 

Stagger did speculate as to the source of the misunderstanding, but his initial sentences were quite clear. To quote him: "A defense implies I'm trying to defend anything we actually did. No, I don't think GOONS made it up. I think KenM had a misinformed view. Milton would know what we actually said."

 

That doesn't seem like a dance to me. He just stated the facts that have been confirmed in this thread. Also, you clearly did not double check with KenM beforehand, and you did double check with some of GOONS, who completely contradicted your theory. So that doesn't help your point in the least bit.

 

I play pretend with my friends on the playground all the time. I'm always the red power ranger. But that isn't the issue at hand. The primary cause of this issue has nothing to do with misinformed MI6 members, but misinformed Kaskus leadership.

 

Cut the crap, you wanted a war and now you have one after engineering a CB, it's ok. We get it. Everyone knows the CB is crappy so there really is no need to try justify it, these who dislike us will mindlessly support your cause and in your mind I guess that justifies today's actions.

 

No need to fret over it :)

 

Agreed. It is a weird unstable middle ground he is trying to hold, which is only publicly discrediting him. The logical thing to do is either admit he acted poorly in his leadership position and that he made a mistake, or to admit he just wanted an excuse to fight a war. Instead, this middle ground is displaying that he still acted poorly in his leadership of Kaskus, but also is acting rather illogically in the aftermath of the mess he caused, and hence still acting poorly in his leadership of Kaskus. There are two logical paths, but neither are being followed. I'm not trying to rile anyone up, just stating what is evident.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Chauncey

[Unknown Smurf]

 
I am in awe of your double checking skills.
 
Cut the crap, you wanted a war and now you have one after engineering a CB, it's ok. We get it. Everyone knows the CB is crappy so there really is no need to try justify it, these who dislike us will mindlessly support your cause and in your mind I guess that justifies today's actions.
 
No need to fret over it :)

The two arent mutually exclusive. As I've implied elsewhere.. I believed GOONS first version over their second.

Miscommunication means one thing was said that was misunderstood... what possibly could have been said that was misunderstood to mean "kaskus won't protect their protectorate" .. that is unbelievable to me. I could believe that goons thought that mi6 talked to us and they had not had the chance to or something but GOONS says that 1) mi6 specifically said we would not protect LN and 2) that was the reason GOONS reenagged with our protectorate.

[Neo Uruk]

If nothing else, this is a hilarious reminder that Methrage's "protectorate" means next to nothing to Kaskus.

Several attacks by GOONS? Fine. One made-up plot by MI6 that wasn't a thing? WE MUST WAR, IMMEDIATELY.

[Williambonney]

wait L_H is brittbenthis is somehow news to meWHAT THE $%&@ MAN

Something the matter Rey? You sound upset about something...pm me if you need someone to talk to or just need a shoulder.

[Franz Ferdinand]

wait L_H is brittben

this is somehow news to me

WHAT THE $%&@ MAN

Needless to say, this puts me in an interesting situation. Either way, the spirit of Lavender Town still exists, which is nice.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Feel free to argue it's a crap cb, but accusing US of 'fabricating' it is really over the line I think. That's not his style and I see zero evidence of that. Even Ken doesnt challenge the authenticity of the log where he puts the responsibility for his actions on MI6. It may well be a misunderstanding but the idea that Smurf was just desperate to start a war with someone bigger is preposterous, and ignores the past weeks of nonstop provocations.

[KenMorningstar]

Feel free to argue it's a crap cb, but accusing US of 'fabricating' it is really over the line I think. That's not his style and I see zero evidence of that. Even Ken doesnt challenge the authenticity of the log where he puts the responsibility for his actions on MI6. It may well be a misunderstanding but the idea that Smurf was just desperate to start a war with someone bigger is preposterous, and ignores the past weeks of nonstop provocations.

Oh look the amazing wonder with severe reading comprehension problems.

I will do this one more time and then I'm finished. I do not challenge the authenticity of the cut and pastes here because I said those things. Turns out I misunderstood what Milton was trying to tell me and when I talked to Unknown Smurf, I told him incorrect information based on what I believed to be true. We then explained to Smurf that I was incorrect before he started all of this.

(OOC)
Okay now that THATS over with I could go on and on about why I told smurf what I did but it all boils down to working 80 hours a week at minimum opening my new restaurant, not having a stable IRC client on this ipad and basically putting snippets of info from Milton together at 3 am after a 12 hour day when I was taking to smurf on IRC.
(/OOC) Edited September 23, 2014 by KenMorningstar

[KahlanRahl]

This is way better than the soap operas on air in Thenn right meow. :popcorn:

[Unknown Smurf]

Oh look the amazing wonder with severe reading comprehension problems.

I will do this one more time and then I'm finished. I do not challenge the authenticity of the cut and pastes here because I said those things. Turns out I misunderstood what Milton was trying to tell me and when I talked to Unknown Smurf, I told him incorrect information based on what I believed to be true. We then explained to Smurf that I was incorrect before he started all of this.

(OOC)
Okay now that THATS over with I could go on and on about why I told smurf what I did but it all boils down to working 80 hours a week at minimum opening my new restaurant, not having a stable IRC client on this ipad and basically putting snippets of info from Milton together at 3 am after a 12 hour day when I was taking to smurf on IRC.
(/OOC)

It's not just a cut and paste.. our entire conversation is linked in the OP. Anyone who has taken the time to read that knows that my logic isn't flawed based on the facts I had available.

You said you explained all this to me bit you conveniently leave out when.. it was the night before our DoW after all targets were made and allies informed as well as well after the thread on mi6 forums was made.. it was not too much of a stretch for me to believe that you were just trying to dissuade us from (or at least postpone) our declaration while you got your ducks in a row.


Forgive me but I found it hard to believe sard/chim/yourself/voodoo/Milton all just happened to be busy in RL while this was going on. If that is the case so be it, but from my perspective it looked like intentional stonewalling.

[Neo Uruk]

So, Smurf, if GOONS were willing participants in some sideshow conspiracy to drag Kaskus into a war with MI6; why haven't you defended your protectorate?

Edited September 23, 2014 by Neo Uruk

[Rush Sykes]

 

 

 

Yeah, it would be a bit silly to call in optional aggression allies for a fabricated CB.  

 

Yeah, cuz THAT has never happened before on Planet Bob.

[Ogaden]

From the way this thread has gone, it looks like there was quite the coalition lined up to roll MI6, but Kaskus has managed to screw the whole thing up in quite a dramatic fashion. Bravo gentlemen, from one war ruiner to another, well done sir.

[Franz Ferdinand]

From the way this thread has gone, it looks like there was quite the coalition lined up to roll MI6, but Kaskus has managed to screw the whole thing up in quite a dramatic fashion. Bravo gentlemen, from one war ruiner to another, well done sir.

They should probably been more spontaneous and random, wouldn't you agree?

[Neo Uruk]

RIA: Ruining wars before it was cool

[Stonewall14]

 

Aesculus well. honestly here, I don't see much. reps simply would not work, because of the way the goons economy is set up, and I doubt that the other governments would consider that much of an option either. I guess we could just go with a limited war, let beets burn him for a round, he gets taught a valuable lesson, we get to exact vengeance or whatever it is.

 

To: stonewall14 From: Beets Date: 9/18/2014 12:44:02 AM

Subject: RE: War Declared!

Message: Hey man, Nate's definitely getting 1 round of war.

We just neglected the mention that other wars.

I was told by two members of Goons govt. that my 3 week old virgin player to CN would recieve 1 round of war for his noob infraction of spying(after several LN nations were spied on immediately after the limited scirmish with goonies) and that would be end of it and two hours later the Goons blitzed most of our alliance...Obviosly the Goons govt. word means nada and anything they say or promise is suspect and not to be trusted...Obviously they felt they could escalate the situation without concern for the consquences and therefore it lends merit to KenM saying that MI6 put them up to it promising back up...not to mention the numerous threats levied at Limitless Nexus by various members of MI6 in numerous threads where they mocked and threathened to war us over and over again in apparent solidarity with KenM and his numerous threats to war us also...So the feigned indignation of likeomg we're so innocent and had nothing to do with goonies blitzing LN is hilarious and says much about their character as well pretending to be innocent and unaware of any of this... :rolleyes:

[Partisan]

Reading this thread, I can not help but see chaunce bringing up excellent points and raising an excellent question. Unfortunately, it appears that kaskus officials (US) have been unable to reply to Chaunce's attempts at civil discourse. I will assume that this is a sincere mistake caused by the fact that kaskus is rather occupied with replying to other, less well-constructed posts. While I understand your situation, I would sincerely request for an official kaskus response to the following quotes. My interest lies mostly with the promotion of civil discourse in this thread. Thank you.

 

 

So if you aren't warmongering, do you at minimum acknowledge, as is now obvious,  that you based this war on a false premise and acted far too hastily?

 

 

But if you read the whole thread, which I sincerely don't at all blame you for not doing, then the whole story really is here. There isn't anything opsec behind the scenes. It is all in plain view.

 

 

 

Heh, it wasn't even a miscommunication between MI6 and GOONS. It was a minor internal miscommunication within GOONS that didn't have anything to do with MI6.

 

 

 

As for your attempts being met by silence, the thread in our embassy proves that wrong. Stagger clearly replied, as did others. The logical conclusion would have been to maybe suspect MI6 of foul play, but then to contact GOONS to clarify things first; not to suspect MI6 of foul play, accuse MI6 without double checking with GOONS, and then when MI6 truthfully responds that we have no idea what you are talking about, respond by going to war. This wasn't even a time sensitive issue. If you would have waited one more day to hit us, to ensure you have the story straight, your attack still would have been just as much of a surprise. So you can't really claim to have acted in a logical manner throughout this process. It is clear to everyone that it was the opposite.

 

 

 

If you are the baby in that sig then you got me. You are too cute for me to resist. DBDC DBDC DBDC

 

 

 

Stagger did speculate as to the source of the misunderstanding, but his initial sentences were quite clear. To quote him: "A defense implies I'm trying to defend anything we actually did. No, I don't think GOONS made it up. I think KenM had a misinformed view. Milton would know what we actually said."

 

That doesn't seem like a dance to me. He just stated the facts that have been confirmed in this thread. Also, you clearly did not double check with KenM beforehand, and you did double check with some of GOONS, who completely contradicted your theory. So that doesn't help your point in the least bit.

 

I play pretend with my friends on the playground all the time. I'm always the red power ranger. But that isn't the issue at hand. The primary cause of this issue has nothing to do with misinformed MI6 members, but misinformed Kaskus leadership.

 

 

Agreed. It is a weird unstable middle ground he is trying to hold, which is only publicly discrediting him. The logical thing to do is either admit he acted poorly in his leadership position and that he made a mistake, or to admit he just wanted an excuse to fight a war. Instead, this middle ground is displaying that he still acted poorly in his leadership of Kaskus, but also is acting rather illogically in the aftermath of the mess he caused, and hence still acting poorly in his leadership of Kaskus. There are two logical paths, but neither are being followed. I'm not trying to rile anyone up, just stating what is evident.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Partisan

[Believland]

Who needs facts when you have your own twisted perspective?

[Kim Jong lllest]

Who needs facts when you have your own twisted perspective?

I approves this statement.