Will your opinion of Pacifica or Polaris change after this war?

[Crymson]

[quote name='Sup4l33t3ki11a' timestamp='1297585862' post='2631056']
Oh I love how you manage to bring me into this Fran, grow up, I've got nothing to do with people hating you. THIS thread is a nice little bit of attention seeking, just like everything single other thread you make on these forums.
[/quote]

Oooh, drama!!!

[Sup4l33t3ki11a]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1297586029' post='2631057']
Oooh, drama!!!
[/quote]


Don't get your hopes too high

[NLights]

I remember the first time I argued with my ex-girlfriend on the OWF.

[Crymson]

[quote name='NorthernLights' timestamp='1297586270' post='2631059']
I remember the first time I argued with my ex-girlfriend on the OWF.
[/quote]

It's an experience that none of us ever forgets.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Crymson

[Charles Stuart]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1297586029' post='2631057']
Oooh, drama!!!
[/quote]

Ex-lovers' tiff!!

[Bordiga]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1297582011' post='2631031']
Uh, no NPO would not have assisted GOD directly in that war; they had no interest in it. The only way in which they supported the war was that they gave permission to GOD's coalition to attack The Red Rose, which I still feel to have been the first mistake that led to the eventual destruction of Revenge.

If you think the GATO war occupied their armed forces, then you weren't paying attention to what was going on at the time.

And yes, Z'ha'dum (may he rest in pieces) vocally supported the war. However, people really do tend to give his statements too much weight; it was a long time ago that he was even vaguely high up on the totem pole. Probably his greatest achievement was being Legion viceroy, which is something of a strange legacy to say the least.
[/quote]

Ok. It's irrelevant if they did in that case work together or not. The point is that both coalitions are filled with scum.

I was under the impression that NPO would have gotten involved due to a conversation I had with Ephriam Grey at the time when he said just that. It did strike me as strange that they would feel that they were overcommitted, but they certainly did display enough glee at the event as to dispel those doubts. It was not just Zha'dum but also Bakunin's Dream.

[wickedj]

No. no. and no.

next..

[Bob Janova]

Bordiga, you should know by now if you didn't by then that you can't believe everything Ephriam Grey says .

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1297556140' post='2630705']
Sparta seemed to enjoy it during their time in the Hegemony
[/quote]

So did Polar?

[Ryan Greenberg]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1297606305' post='2631146']
So did Polar?
[/quote]
Well, at least until Summer 2008. So did MCXA?

Edited February 13, 2011 by Ryan Greenberg

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1297608539' post='2631157']
Well, at least until Summer 2008. So did MCXA?
[/quote]

Yeah, a lotta people are guilty about that. Not sure if being in power is really something to be embarrassed about though.

Edited February 13, 2011 by supercoolyellow

[Monster]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1297555772' post='2630695']
Shouldn't you be saving this statement for Umbrella?
[/quote]

If you try to cater to everyone's sensibilities, you won't do anything. We generally haven't gone out of our way to pull stunts and this is one of the few times where doing something controversial is well worth it.

[Midkn1ght]

[quote name='Bordiga' timestamp='1297579977' post='2631009']
I'm not grasping at straws, the primary point of that post is to lambast those responsible- which is GOD, VE's pet Ephriam and Andromeda and Argo, which merged into VE. I'm just pointing out that in this case those supposed guardians of virtue were happy to work hand in hand with NPO. I didn't really think I actually had to make the case for NPO being an alliance which has imposed viceroys, kept alliances in eternal war, driven people from the game and disbanded alliances.
[/quote]

I get a kick out of how we're always painted as the bad guys when in reality we are usually just supporting a friend who asked us, much like the TPF war, where we only went in because other's couldn't pull their act together and get folks online. Xiph may wind up being drafted into being the frontman/talker in a lot of our coalition wars, but that doesn't mean we're always the folks who decided to take it to war in the first place. Calling us guardians of virtue is a joke, and there's only a few times we've ever acted like we were, both in regards to the Orders. We wanted NPO and their peace nations forced to take a round or two of wars, specifically so this exact war wouldn't take place again. And recently when we were trying to white knight for Polar to give them a fair chance when we felt they were being persecuted unfairly. Other then those two, we're pretty much down for whatever's needed, morality be screwed.

[quote]The Global Order of Darkness forced 200 nations from the game during the LoFN conflict in a war supported by the NPO, who would have also assisted except they were busy installing a viceroy over GATO. [/quote]

Telling the none groups to scatter isn't the same as forcing them from the game. Several of the leaders in fact joined Andromeda, but don't let that spoil your version of events. Again, not our call, the war wasn't ours, you'd want to talk to to the dude mentioned below about that

[quote]I was under the impression that NPO would have gotten involved due to a conversation I had with Ephriam Grey at the time when he said just that[/quote]
You need to learn like we did after the war was over, not to trust anything told to you from him. I remember Pacifica not being happen to have none cells hiding partially on red abusing their protection, but not really caring enough to do something about it either. The only time I know of that NPO greenlighted an attack of ours, was when they coordinated with dropping Illuminati for their betrayal seconds before we hit them.

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1297611901' post='2631183']
If you try to cater to everyone's sensibilities, you won't do anything. We generally haven't gone out of our way to pull stunts and this is one of the few times where doing something controversial is well worth it.
[/quote]


I just hope that NPO is smart enough to actually change this time after they get peace. I advised them that their biggest mistake coming out of terms was the MDP blitz the second they were cleared, with most of the exact same people they got rolled with previously, people who had spent the year NPO was under terms mouthing off and getting targets put on their heads. I got told nuhuh we were trying to show we were neutral! So I doubt they'll learn or change anything again this go around, and someone else will be hitting them next year again because they're considering a threat/easy target most don't like.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Midkn1ght

[Branimir]

[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1297619092' post='2631247']I advised them that their biggest mistake coming out of terms was the MDP blitz the second they were cleared, with most of the exact same people they got rolled with previously,... [/quote]
We do not change friends. Our friends are who they are and we will not drop them for political convenience (even if there were one) and obviously they dont want to drop us. That is friendship and its rare in here so we do cherish it.

If that is our "biggest mistake", then I am glad we made it.

Now, I have no clue about they making a target out of themselves by mouthing off. I dont believe you have a clue what you are talking about, really. Invicta mouthing off? TPF? Legion?... TIO? All I know is that they get attacked verbally here unprovoked by those that attacked us unprovoked. Actually levels at which they get verbal abuse for nothing is beyond any taste. NSO is only one that comes to mind. Well they are our friends in the world filled with hate for us and we cherish that.

No, we will not change our friends. Not after they again charge the gates of hell to protect us. No, we will not try to make friends with those that attacked us here, the haters, the hypocrites, the liars. We will not growl, bend or pretend anything. We were content to live and let live but the same courtesy was not given to us. Well then so be it!

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Sup4l33t3ki11a' timestamp='1297585862' post='2631056']
Oh I love how you manage to bring me into this Fran, grow up, I've got nothing to do with people hating you. THIS thread is a nice little bit of attention seeking, just like every single other thread you make on these forums.
[/quote]

Inb4 OWF reconciliation [img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/awesome.gif[/img]

edit: Apparently that's not a smiley on the OWF. Changed.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Bob Ilyani

[Mixoux]

[quote name='Bordiga' timestamp='1297522819' post='2630319']
The Global Order of Darkness forced 200 nations from the game during the LoFN conflict in a war supported by the NPO, who would have also assisted except they were busy installing a viceroy over GATO.

So yeah I'm not seeing how either side is any better.
[/quote]

Just a fun fact: Peggy Sue was one of the members we supposedly 'forced from the game'.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Mixoux

[Midkn1ght]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1297620640' post='2631262']
We do not change friends. Our friends are who they are and we will not drop them for political convenience (even if there were one) and obviously they dont want to drop us. That is friendship and its rare in here so we do cherish it. [/quote]

Go read your embassy. I'll summarize what I said when that exact same argument was made in there. Your friends had to be shamed into fighting for you in karma, they were going to leave you out to die until it was rather obvious they were going to be rolled regardless on if they came in or not. Your "friends" are only your friends because no one else really gives a crap about them. Don't mistake dependency for loyalty. TPF is the only alliance I'd give credit for, for being a true friend, and an ally you'd never want to loose. The rest *shrug* if you love them you love them. All that really matters I guess. But after your surrender and terms are up this go around, don't MDP NSO as your first act and then talk about how you're trying to be neutral and left alone and wonder why no one believes you and thinks you're just biding your time for a strike back.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1297619092' post='2631247']
I get a kick out of how we're always painted as the bad guys when in reality we are usually just supporting a friend who asked us, much like the TPF war, where we only went in because other's couldn't pull their act together and get folks online. [/quote]

You know, that is not a valid excuse. Perhaps you should be more careful who you call friends. Perhaps you should acknowledge that, sometimes, the best friend is the one that has the courage to tell you you are wrong and they wont go along with it.

Xiph gets points with me for being, at least in comparison to many others, relatively upfront about a lot of things that others would try to cover up. I can respect that, I can respect that a lot. But in the end, 'because our friends asked us to" is only an attempt to make excuses and pass the buck, and earns you no respect at all.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Sigrun Vapneir

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1297628048' post='2631363']
Go read your embassy. I'll summarize what I said when that exact same argument was made in there. Your friends had to be shamed into fighting for you in karma, they were going to leave you out to die until it was rather obvious they were going to be rolled regardless on if they came in or not. Your "friends" are only your friends because no one else really gives a crap about them. Don't mistake dependency for loyalty. TPF is the only alliance I'd give credit for, for being a true friend, and an ally you'd never want to loose. The rest *shrug* if you love them you love them. All that really matters I guess. But after your surrender and terms are up this go around, don't MDP NSO as your first act and then talk about how you're trying to be neutral and left alone and wonder why no one believes you and thinks you're just biding your time for a strike back.
[/quote]
Why exactly does treatying NSO confirm the image of a revanchist Pacifica?

[Branimir]

[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1297628048' post='2631363']Your friends had to be shamed into fighting for you in karma, they were going to leave you out to die until it was rather obvious they were going to be rolled regardless on if they came in or not. [/quote]
Our friends? No.

Some alliances did do that (not our friends), but I do not feel our current treaty partners, people that are now fighting with us again (proving their friendship), pulled that move.
[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1297628048' post='2631363']Your "friends" are only your friends because no one else really gives a crap about them. [/quote]
That is your speculation, which is rather bold. Also dead wrong. Again, I dont believe you have a first clue about what you are talking about.

Let me break this down for you;
Nobody gives crap about them, due to them being tied with us! That has been already openly admitted to them in private and public. Its actually public knowledge. Having a treaty with us is a political negative that hinders one severely. That they choose to keep it, just proves the opposite of what you are implying. Lesser alliances, and no true friends, would opportunistically drop us and move away, not burn with us again.

[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1297628048' post='2631363']Don't mistake dependency for loyalty.[/quote]
Dont speak about something you have absolutely no freaking clue about. Read above.

[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1297628048' post='2631363'] But after your surrender and terms are up this go around,[/quote]
There will be no terms. No rep paying. You can truly, forget about that.

[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1297628048' post='2631363'].... don't MDP NSO as your first act and then talk about how you're trying to be neutral and left alone and wonder why no one believes you and thinks you're just biding your time for a strike back.[/quote]
It wasn't our first act. If a choice of one ally of ours, is a big issue with you, then your just a joke. We build a relationship. It was treaty worthy. Unlike others that caved to the wishes of their other allies, they weren't shy about signing a treaty with us. Yes, that is an issue too. You cant really widen your circle of friends even if you try, when people do not want to be friends with you.

We will not pick and choose our allies to you or anybodies liking. Who do you take we are? A banana alliance? We make treaty commitments with people with which we feel we have that kind of a relationship. Our intentions were proven by our actions, of not seeking war, or creating one. Hopefully though that changes after this, because obviously that is not on the minds of others.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Branimir

[chefjoe]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1297634893' post='2631489']
Our friends? No.

[b]Some alliances did do that [/b](not our friends), but I do not feel our current treaty partners, people that are now fighting with us again (proving their friendship), pulled that move.
[/quote]
Which would those be? Lets see how informed you truly are....

[Branimir]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1297638017' post='2631596']Which would those be? Lets see how informed you truly are....[/quote]
There is no constructive thing that could possibly come out from opening that (off topic) can of worms and further more while this may come as a surprise to you--- I actually moved passed that some time ago. So hence as I do not begrudge nobody for that, opening this possibly still sensitive issue for some would have the opposite effect, poking open wounds that have since then heal or are largely forgotten from my part. Also ultimately, are irrelevant for the current day and age in which my alliance finds it self and I with her.

Or if you really want it, as I think that interest you the most, some issues that I have with Val have nothing to do with this nor would I go so far to claim that I know what you did and why. I hope that settles it.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1297587516' post='2631068']
Ex-lovers' tiff!!
[/quote]

This [i]is[/i] pretty hilarious actually (even for me)

[Bordiga]

[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1297619092' post='2631247']
I get a kick out of how we're always painted as the bad guys when in reality we are usually just supporting a friend who asked us, much like the TPF war, where we only went in because other's couldn't pull their act together and get folks online. Xiph may wind up being drafted into being the frontman/talker in a lot of our coalition wars, but that doesn't mean we're always the folks who decided to take it to war in the first place. Calling us guardians of virtue is a joke, and there's only a few times we've ever acted like we were, both in regards to the Orders. We wanted NPO and their peace nations forced to take a round or two of wars, specifically so this exact war wouldn't take place again. And recently when we were trying to white knight for Polar to give them a fair chance when we felt they were being persecuted unfairly. Other then those two, we're pretty much down for whatever's needed, morality be screwed.[/quote]

This thread is about Kalasin complaining about the history of the Orders. I'm simply pointing out that the other side, despite its claims, has done exactly the same thing as NPO. If GOD doesn't want to deny that then great, that means you have integrity in being scum.



[quote]Telling the none groups to scatter isn't the same as forcing them from the game. Several of the leaders in fact joined Andromeda, but don't let that spoil your version of events. Again, not our call, the war wasn't ours, you'd want to talk to to the dude mentioned below about that[/quote]

They were given individual terms and attacked for existing when most of them were in small communities that they had never not been a part of. My correct version of events recalls perfectly the treachery of three nations, of which only one could have been described a leader in LoFN, who joined Andromeda. Two hundred minus three equals?


[quote]You need to learn like we did after the war was over, not to trust anything told to you from him. I remember Pacifica not being happen to have none cells hiding partially on red abusing their protection, but not really caring enough to do something about it either. The only time I know of that NPO greenlighted an attack of ours, was when they coordinated with dropping Illuminati for their betrayal seconds before we hit them.
[/quote]

Fine.


[quote name='Mixoux' timestamp='1297626128' post='2631331']
Just a fun fact: Peggy Sue was one of the members we supposedly 'forced from the game'.
[/quote]

Peggy_Sue was a member of TPF government at the time. Might want to make a better effort.

[bzelger]

[quote name='Bordiga' timestamp='1297647074' post='2631779']
Two hundred minus three equals?
[/quote]
I was told that there would be no math.