An Imperial Decree

[mhawk]

[quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1293071314' post='2550875']
[font="Georgia"]If they were so concerned about fighting a losing war, they should have called their allies in to help.

Please don't paint them as the downtrodden losers when they didn't even try to win.[/font]
[/quote]
I'd like to hear your theory on deployment that would have given ANY chance of them winning the war?

[AirMe]

[quote name='mhawk' timestamp='1293072240' post='2550903']
I'd like to hear your theory on deployment that would have given ANY chance of them winning the war?
[/quote]

If you are active...does this mean TPF is rolling in tonight?

[WarriorConcept]

Respectable stance. Even though I would have enjoyed the global war that would have occurred I can still respect a smart and unselfish move.

[GuMMyWoRm]

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1293071523' post='2550879']
Europa, good show.

Also ignore all the fools who are shouting off at the mouth, they are unhappy with the fact they do not get to beat down on ex Q alliances some more, I know, I know, Sparta, FOK, TOP, MHA and IRON are all apart of the Ex Q alliances but Sparta has been known to switch sides more time then people flip a pancake.

MK member stating its fair decision by PC and iFOK to turn there back on a MDoAP


This MK member now claims people have to follow their treaties ?


WOW MK MEOW MEOW, at least get your members on the same thought patten or is just due to the fact PB would slap you about ?
[/quote]


See that oAP part of the PC/iFOK treaty vs the MD part of the europa treaty? If your not sure what those mean check your wiki.

yea you remind me of a certain antoine dodson quote. Also your MCXA? Yea that bout sums it up. I forgot they do take in about anyone nowadays.

[KingEd]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1293072336' post='2550905']
If you are active...does this mean TPF is rolling in tonight?
[/quote]

When is the next show?

[Steve Buscemi]

[quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1293072211' post='2550902']
I added a sentence.
[/quote]
You might want to tell your other NPO buddies that, since I've been having problems getting them to understand what I consider a simple argument. Kudos to you atleast.

[Dan100]

You sure it isn't copy right?

[Branimir]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1293072584' post='2550911']Respectable stance. Even though I would have enjoyed the global war that would have occurred I can still respect a smart and unselfish move.[/quote]
As I said earlier, if treaties played out as they should have (see ifok and pc realpolitik-ing out of treaty ties to protect the main power treaty web) it would be an awesome war of epic proportions which would be rather leveled and would just totally broke this place giving it unpredictable future dynamics.

But as pointed out, they opted for a cool, rational decision and set the tone for the future events in this war. Is it less fun, yes. But who can blame them for doing a rational thing? So, who can blame Europa to fallow suit and not giving a big curbstomp, but rather a smaller one.

So, we face a clear contradiction within ourselves. We would like wars, but nobody wants to break their power clusters, nor does one want to commit their allies to the slaughter house. So, what now?

I suppose we will have to wait for a more galvanizing event then this NEW raid.

[maskofblue]

Have fun guys.

[Fernando12]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1293072048' post='2550896']
I refer you to: An attack on a protected entity is an attack on the protector. NEW started an offensive war against INT, TPE and FARK by attacking DF.
[/quote]
Side note/question here...

Often times war is declared by 2 or more alliances on another alliance. An ally of the attacked alliance counter declares on one alliance. Yet, if they hold an MDP or higher treaty, then they are obligated to declare on all. But this doesn't happen because of the potential activations that could take place. So war is declared on only the alliance that could be dealt with most effectively.

Is that, in your opinion, considered not fully honoring the treaty?

[AirMe]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1293073609' post='2550936']
Side note/question here...

Often times war is declared by 2 or more alliances on another alliance. An ally of the attacked alliance counter declares on one alliance. Yet, if they hold an MDP or higher treaty, then they are obligated to declare on all. But this doesn't happen because of the potential activations that could take place. So war is declared on only the alliance that could be dealt with most effectively.

Is that, in your opinion, considered not fully honoring the treaty?
[/quote]

Can you clarify? I don't understand what you are asking. Anything with an o before the A, then it is optional.

[White Chocolate]

As long as it's your choice, Salute!

[Fernando12]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1293074098' post='2550949']
Can you clarify? I don't understand what you are asking. Anything with an o before the A, then it is optional.
[/quote]
Well, not sure if I can clarify without it being e-lawyered.

Thinking back on Bipolar War. Alliances declared. Then alliances only counter declared on one or two alliances.

If I remember right, Polar attacks \m/. PC and iFOK? or FOK attack NpO. NSO attacks iFOK or FOK, (I forget who exactly). NSO is declared on by many alliances, yet NpO didn't declare on all of them. Did NpO not fully honor the MDP?

NSO/RoK War, would NSO allies have been obligated to declare on all the alliances that declared on NSO? I'm quite sure that if NSO allies joined they would split up engagements. Probably by agreement, but would for example NPO only declaring on RoK and not all the rest of the RoK coalition be considered to be NPO not fully honoring the treaty with NSO?

[u][i](Note - these are only examples and not meant to call out any alliances. Just want some feedback from Airme and or whoever chooses to give their thoughts)[/i][/u]
[b]
EDIT#1:[/b] What I'm getting at is that in any war, if there is a cb then it could be used to get out of defending an ally. The only war that could be justified where we can call people out is if alliance A out of the blue attacks alliance B and alliance B's allies refuse to enter.

[b]EDIT#2: [/b]NSO/RoK war - it can be argued that NSO allies don't have to defend them for the major mistake NSO committed to get them rolled.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Fernando12

[dev0win]

Good show Europa, Contain the beast.

[Owned-You]

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1293071523' post='2550879']
Europa, good show.

Also ignore all the fools who are shouting off at the mouth, they are unhappy with the fact they do not get to beat down on ex Q alliances some more, I know, I know, Sparta, FOK, TOP, MHA and IRON are all apart of the Ex Q alliances but Sparta has been known to switch sides more time then people flip a pancake.

MK member stating its fair decision by PC and iFOK to turn there back on a MDoAP


This MK member now claims people have to follow their treaties ?


WOW MK MEOW MEOW, at least get your members on the same thought patten or is just due to the fact PB would slap you about ?
[/quote]

Individuality is an alien concept to you isn't it? Unfathomable that our members hold diverse opinions...Unlike the alliances you frequent, that would apparently allow only certain opinions; we allow them all uninhibited for better or worse.

[Maleatu]

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1293049524' post='2550268']
Oh please, we both know you only countered them so you (and your allies) could stomp their allies. They called your bluff, get over it.
[/quote]

Well played good sir, well played.

[zzzptm]

We'll see if this works out all right.

If nobody else joins the NEW side, then it'll be a very rough curbstomping for that crew.

[Jocko Homo]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1293049091' post='2550256']As such, Europa is not calling on her allies in TLK, UBD, Invicta or Wolfpack to defend in this time of war.[/quote]

Boooooo!!!

I'm against anything that slows the spread of this war.

[Gibsonator21]

Can this war get any lamer?

[Ardus]

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1293071523' post='2550879']
Europa, good show.

Also ignore all the fools who are shouting off at the mouth, they are unhappy with the fact they do not get to beat down on ex Q alliances some more, I know, I know, Sparta, FOK, TOP, MHA and IRON are all apart of the Ex Q alliances but Sparta has been known to switch sides more time then people flip a pancake.

MK member stating its fair decision by PC and iFOK to turn there back on a MDoAP


This MK member now claims people have to follow their treaties ?


WOW MK MEOW MEOW, at least get your members on the same thought patten or is just due to the fact PB would slap you about ?
[/quote]

Before you try to quote me as some example of hypocrisy in MK, you should probably check to see if I'm actually being a hypocrite.

I think that this decision by Europa is a fair decision, too. It's perfectly within the rights of her allies to respect it and, though I would prefer an opportunity to engage them, I shan't begrudge them for this.

[magicninja]

Way to cover for your pals cowardice. Regardless of what you say I doubt they were chomping at the bit. they would have come in regardless of what you said here if that were the case. I think this is just a a way for those cowards to save face. They can of course prove me wrong by jumping in at any time.

[deathcat]

[quote name='RebelBreeze' timestamp='1293049725' post='2550281']
Not asking your allies to help is honorable but not in your case. I believe around 50% of your alliance is in Anarchy... you need your allies to help but whatever... ODN will watch you burn
[/quote]

Possibly.. You Mad?

Europa.. You have balls.. and you know how to use them! Good show and best wishes in your fight.

oo/ Europa.. Stay Classy!

[Thrash]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1293083233' post='2551187']
Way to cover for your pals cowardice. Regardless of what you say I doubt they were chomping at the bit.
[/quote]

Then based on that assumption, Europa should surely cancel all these treaties once the war is over. Right?

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='Thrash' timestamp='1293086299' post='2551298']
Then based on that assumption, Europa should surely cancel all these treaties once the war is over. Right?
[/quote]

Exactly. Why would we be covering for our allies if they bailed on us? Do you think I give a !@#$ what it would look like if we called them out? Hell no. If Invicta, UBD, WP and TLK had told us they wouldn't fight, I'd be out here mocking them, as ANYBODY that has ever talked to me on IRC knows. I don't play the political game, I don't choose sides, I don't say what people expect, I march to my own drum. I'm a CN hipster.

*shivers*

There's a reason I frequent the GOONS channel, and there's a reason Europa's had some tough FA decisions in the past. We don't conform, that's why we were leaving PnL. So, I will state once more:

[b]Yes, we had Mutual Defense Pacts. No, we were not attacked outright. We were countered for hitting an ally of Sparta. [/b]Why didn't we hit Fark when we went in? Well, Fark didn't hit FEAR. Why didn't FEAR hit Fark? They aren't that stupid. They weren't going to open up a shot to be countered by two blocs.

Do I think for a second that ODN needed help handling us? No. I suspect deeply that Sparta's counter was an attempt to draw our allies in. Do I hold anything against Sparta for hitting us? No. No I do not. They have proven to be, like ODN, respectable fighters.

So, for a final time, [b]just because you sign a Mutual Defense Pact does not mean they MUST defend, regardless of your opinions. [/b]Option Defense Pact is "Europa got attacked, do we go in?", whereas Mutual Defense Pact was "Europa got hit back, gear up. Oh, they're telling us to stand down, they don't want to see us curbstomped".

Get off our allies, if we didn't think they were loyal, we'd have left them long ago.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Ernesto Che Guevara

[Mayzie]

[quote name='zzzptm' timestamp='1293079317' post='2551066']
If nobody else joins the NEW side, then it'll be a very rough curbstomping for that crew.
[/quote]

Whether anyone else joins the NEW side or not, it'll be a rough curbstomping.

This is a respectable decision by Europa and hopefully it shortens the length of this lame war. I mean, NEW deserve their punishment but these other alliances shouldn't be getting wasted for their idiocy.