Shurukian Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 So your telling me they thought that actually doing what they had planned was funny and they got together to laugh about it? Ok if you think that makes it look better. Planned? Did you miss every point of everything I said? It was a situation. They joked about it. Nothing planned about it. I do the same about quite a few of the situations my friends and I end up in. You used to do the same thing with us when you were here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Planned? Did you miss every point of everything I said? It was a situation. They joked about it. Nothing planned about it. I do the same about quite a few of the situations my friends and I end up in. You used to do the same thing with us when you were here. Wow, seriously? The "blowing off war-time steam" thing didn't work during the Great War and it isn't going to work now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunky Monkey Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Id just like to point to that other thread, you know, the one in which I CALLED IT. TOLD YOU SO, enjoy your lies and deceit gentlemen (and ladies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwthegreat Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Hang in there TPF... Justice will be served Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgoods45 Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Uhhh, Magic, I was on skype with him while they were doing that. It was them joking around. It wasn't 'coaching'. At that point, there was still enough of a friendship for laughs. [23:23] <YohanElus> Hi mhawk [23:29] <~mhawk> hey you deserting scumball [23:29] <~mhawk> 01[23:30] <DrunkMonkey> pffft [23:33] <~mhawk> you too [23:33] <~mhawk> [23:33] <YohanElus> lol [23:47] <shadow|TPF> heh [23:47] <shadow|TPF> mhawk, what timeline do you want me and scotty to be on for leaving? [23:51] <Desperado`> Ill be honest, the next peggy irc convo is not going to go well [23:51] <Desperado`> lol 01[23:51] <DrunkMonkey> no talking we're being interviewed [23:51] <YohanElus> XD [23:51] <Desperado`> who would wanna interview? [23:52] <YohanElus> Athens gov interviewing us [23:52] <Desperado`> nice [23:52] <Desperado`> you two are fast workers [23:59] <~mhawk> logs [23:59] <~mhawk> [4:25:14 AM] DrunkMonkey: [04:06] <~mhawk> sitrep [04:06] <Yohan|Away> it was pretty funny [04:06] <Yohan|Away> one of them was talking about elysium and tpf saying that our past alliances made him a little angry (not exact words, but something like it) [04:06] <Yohan|Away> londo stood up for us and said an alliance has all types of people [04:07] <Yohan|Away> or something to that effect [04:07] <Yohan|Away> So yeah, their mofa pinged so we never got farther then londo starting to ask liquidmerc something, which we assumed was to get us off karma pow sooner [04:08] <Yohan|Away> but the protectorate looks like a go [4:26:01 AM] DrunkMonkey: [04:26] <~mhawk> lol [04:26] <~mhawk> $%&@ hotu [4:33:39 AM] DrunkMonkey: [22:57] <~mhawk> how is that protectorate com ing/ [22:59] <YohanElus> We are announcing it on Sunday mhawk right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popsumpot Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Wow, seriously? The "blowing off war-time steam" thing didn't work during the Great War and it isn't going to work now. Actually, this looks exactly like someone blowing off steam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 A clearly unbiased assessment, thank you. Sorry I forgot this one: * There is no room for diplomacy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Actually, this looks exactly like someone blowing off steam. Your post is really funny when paired with the one above it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popsumpot Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 -snip-right. No where in those logs did I see mhawk directing Zero Hour to spy for them... In fact, it actually do look like they are joking around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramirus Maximus Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I know it's been brought up like a million times, but why are six month old logs valid CBs?If you JUST NOW found out that someone had beat up your kid brother 6 months ago, would you say: "It's okay, it happened 6 months ago", or would you go kick their $@!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Planned? Did you miss every point of everything I said? It was a situation. They joked about it. Nothing planned about it. I do the same about quite a few of the situations my friends and I end up in. You used to do the same thing with us when you were here. Yes, planned Shuru. They talked about doing it and then ZH formed and got a protectorate with Athens. If it was just talk the ZH guys would either never have formed or would have chosen a different protector if they were legit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 No where in those logs did I see mhawk directing Zero Hour to spy for them...In fact, it actually do look like they are joking around. If the entire premise of the protectorate was a joke, then it COULD be argued that that in itself is spying, as there was no real intention of one party to be faithful to the other, while keeping closer ties to a party that is, well, the enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunky Monkey Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 If you JUST NOW found out that someone had beat up your kid brother 6 months ago, would you say: "It's okay, it happened 6 months ago", or would you go kick their $@!? More like 6 months ago someone gave your brother a candy bar but your brothers freinds said the guy beat him up. Now what do you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgoods45 Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 No where in those logs did I see mhawk directing Zero Hour to spy for them...In fact, it actually do look like they are joking around. Still validates our CB. Mhawk keeping updated on his people he sent on these "missions". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The AUT Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 If you JUST NOW found out that someone had beat up your kid brother 6 months ago, would you say: "It's okay, it happened 6 months ago", or would you go kick their $@!? Try to solve it using the criminal justice system. Perhaps win a court case and extract some money. Unless, of course, your objective the entire time is just to cause a family feud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popsumpot Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Still validates our CB. Mhawk keeping updated on his people he sent on these "missions". He didn't send them on your imaginary missions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeScepter Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 most of it is ZH talking to ZH and copy pasting quotes from myself out of context Someone posted out of context logs to advance their own machinations? What a bunch of scurrilous scamps they are. How delightful that their accusations have been rebutted by evidence that is far more legitimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2burnt2eat Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 If you JUST NOW found out that someone had beat up your kid brother 6 months ago, would you say: "It's okay, it happened 6 months ago", or would you go kick their $@!? Although I don't like the analogy... You do realize that the police would still arrest you, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Bad Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) Still validates our CB. Mhawk keeping updated on his people he sent on these "missions". If you knew the relashionship between the two parties you would know how stupid you sound. I don't know if your Gov got played or they just don't care because they want this war to start. Either way no one is dumb enough to think this war has anything to do with TPF. Edited December 27, 2009 by The Big Bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfEmpty Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I can't wait till they find out about the Poison Clan gambit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 If you knew the relashionship between the two parties you would know how stupid you sound. I don't know if your Gov got played or they just don't care because they want this war to start. Either way no is dumb enough to think this war has anything to do with TPF. In before the omitted line of: <mhawk> Absolutely not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramirus Maximus Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 More like 6 months ago someone gave your brother a candy bar but your brothers freinds said the guy beat him up. Now what do you do?According to your scenario, the only information I have to go on is what my brother's friends told me; namely that the guy beat up my brother. At which point I'd go kick the guy's $@!.I understand that you're trying to make my comparison into an analogy, but it isn't one. I'm merely saying that it's not a "6 month old CB". If Athens/RoK had known about this 6 months ago, and waited until now to do something, THEN it would be a 6 month old CB. Right now it's a 1-2 day-old CB, because Athens just found out. Also, 6 months ago was AFTER the Karma war, so any notion of TPF being at war with Athens or not is moot. Sure, there were some peace negotiations ongoing, but we were far into the cleanup stage by 6/20/09. The bulk of the war was final in mid-May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trout Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Well, time to kick some small nations $@!. Come and bring it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 It's still an improvement over the old world where the war simply never ended (unless one side was defeated by a third party) -- at least TPF got a break. Getting a fresh war against half the world twice a year isn't really an improvement. There is no expiration date on a CB; if you have been wronged by an AA then you can hold them to justice when and if you see fit. This is a really, really scary idea. Suppose it holds true. Suppose your AA once committed a CB against some large sanctioned alliance. Nobody in your government now knows about it. Does that alliance have a valid CB to use anytime from now until the end of time? No, there has to be some kind of end to it. Otherwise ... wow man there are alot of skeletons that need to be very careful out there. If you want to try that route, one could argue that TPF didn't surrender to Athens, thus the war is still in effect. \m/ never surrendered to Polar, thus the war is still in effect. No, don't like that one? Apart from the slight problem that TPF's surrender terms ended their wars with all alliances, even those not formally signing. Once again, there was never a formal declaration of war between Athens and TPF. I don't believe there was one single fight between the two. I also don't believe trying to infiltrate an alliance was ever an acceptable practice and has long been considered a valid CB. It was, indeed, a valid CB. IN THE PAST. Key to the argument that Athens, Ragnarok and their allies are putting forward is that mhawk continued to work with Zero Hour with the intent of subverting Athens. There's no evidence for this whatsoever. Had Athens declared on TPF in July over Zero Hour, that'd be a whole other story. The reality is, all the stuff in the CB happened during Karma, and normally at the end of a large war the winning side takes the win and moves on. Is six months really such a long time? Is the same person who ordered the acts not still in charge? Is it not possible they could be ordered again? Wait, now is the CB going to be "He might plot against us again!" That's gonna leave a looooong list. Did Athens approach TPF diplomatically before declaring war? No, they didn't. Athens did not consider our selves to be in a state of war with TPF in the Karma War. Period. You did, nevertheless, declare war on their MADP partners, in a manner which indicated that you were declaring war on TPF at the same time as per the TPF-NPO treaty. Oh please, its been recognized as a legitimate act of war for some time now. In fact, FAN's infiltration of a fairly large number of alliances was seen as justified on the basis of them being at war. Infiltrating an alliance is indeed an act of war, and had Athens or Ragnarok discovered it while TPF was endeavouring to infiltrate them, or had come up with some kind of evidence that they were still doing it, I'd be fine with this war. However of course if the first one had happened, Athens and Ragnarok would have just jumped on the burning remains of TPF, and if the second one had happened, they'd have had some evidence and probably would have done diplomacy instead of going straight to the Magic Red Button. Instead they're using ancient logs from the middle of a global war as a CB for a fresh war. Well, that's going to lead to a different sort of result from the one they were hoping for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 TPF is still rebuilding from the last war, it might be in their best interests to just admit wrongdoing and accept the punishment that allows them to exist and be left relatively unharmed by further war. Considering how successful paying reps to stay out of war was as a plan the last time, I don't think they're going to be suckered again. Paying reps every few months is not a good alliance-building plan. As I've stated, our alliance made peace with every single alliance we spied on (including ones that didn't know we'd spied on them) before disbanding, except for NPO and TPF, whose surrender terms included clauses that required them to stop PZIing us. TPF also made peace with Karma - which coincidentally includes every single alliance that they planned to spy on, including ones that didn't know it. See any similarity there? <mhawk logs snipped>right. I don't see any coaching in any of those logs. mhawk has said he knew about the Athens protectorate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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