Lochiel Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I can't wait till they find out about the Poison Clan gambit Lol that's nearly as funny as the joke attempts here to justify the proclaimed Cassus Belli ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Everyone knows that this CB is invalid and merely a convenient excuse for war. My thanks to the many who have attempted to prove that. But what's the point, when the words are just twisted round - even the argument is going in circles My only attempt at adding a spark of logic is as follows ..... Hedgemony v Karma was a War - a BIG WAR That War is over = Everyone is now at peace Allegations and truths of spying in that BIG WAR ended when that war endedUnless there is proof that the spying continued No proof = Joke CB - argument over Still want my pixels - come and get them - But be Warned, some of your Nations are Already Waaaay bigger than your brains Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necromancer V4L Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 War is the only option for Bog Land. Shame on you for not trying diplomatic means before resorting to conflict, and shame on you for expecting others to do something you outright refuse to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pasquali Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I just want to point out that war is war, and of course spying is acceptable in war time. In war, the object is to defeat your enemy. That's why our nations have CIAs and spies and spy missions and such. Because spying is acceptable in war time. However, since TPF and Athens weren't at war, it wasn't cool for TPF to spy Athens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The AUT Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I honestly hope you step up and defend TPF. I'd think that Sparta would be much looking forward to that. ...and if you don't, then shame on you. We will dance the night away, Necro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 They surrendered to karma and Athens was in Karma. No, they were not at war with Athens and if they were, I don't recall Athens accepting TPFs surrender. I'll have to check the threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pasquali Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Thank you, you are both a scholar and a gentleman.----- If this act by TPF is so acceptable, and spying is so acceptable, then the rest of Bob will act accordingly and strike against Athens/RoK/GOD/\m/ for their actions. Eventually, we will achieve a victor, and either it will be laid into history that spying is acceptable in a case of war or that spying is never acceptable. OOC: Underlined that one for you. Sorry, that's what I was replying to just now. It seems rather obvious that spying is acceptable in a case of war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) No, they were not at war with Athens and if they were, I don't recall Athens accepting TPFs surrender. I'll have to check the threads. What were they doing, taking an 6 month breather from the continuing Karma war? Edited December 27, 2009 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfEmpty Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Shame on Athens on using a bogus CB and shame on you for being cheerleader No1 after all your whining about justice and so on over the last 18 months. There's an olde saying... Once an IA always an IA at heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 He didn't send them on your imaginary missions...There seems to be data suggesting otherwise. None of which have been denied by Mhawk or TPF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 There seems to be data suggesting otherwise. None of which have been denied by Mhawk or TPF. Welcome to the party, Solaris. I'm sure you'll lots of interesting reading ahead of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilkenny Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I wonder who supplied those logs?? Given that there seems to be 1-2 central people in them, and those people have a serious grudge/bad blood between them and TPF, would seem to make them suspect. I even see reference in there to a OP I ran as MoW that had nothing to with spying and all about conduct of the War... wonder how they got in there?? I suspect a lot of cut and paste involved...kinda disappointed that it took you this long to cut and paste tehm together...slipping a little, or maybe just a little too drunk. but I wouldn't expect anything better fromt eh involved parties, esp athens...war before diplomacy, pay reps after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I wonder who supplied those logs??Given that there seems to be 1-2 central people in them, and those people have a serious grudge/bad blood between them and TPF, would seem to make them suspect. I even see reference in there to a OP I ran as MoW that had nothing to with spying and all about conduct of the War... wonder how they got in there?? I suspect a lot of cut and paste involved...kinda disappointed that it took you this long to cut and paste tehm together...slipping a little, or maybe just a little too drunk. but I wouldn't expect anything better fromt eh involved parties, esp athens...war before diplomacy, pay reps after. I don't know where you've been, but pretty much all logs have 1-2 central people in them and these people have a grudge against TPF because they've been at war before and TPF has been spying on them for six months. But thanks for your expert analysis of the logs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikMark Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I just want to point out that war is war, and of course spying is acceptable in war time. In war, the object is to defeat your enemy. That's why our nations have CIAs and spies and spy missions and such. Because spying is acceptable in war time.However, since TPF and Athens weren't at war, it wasn't cool for TPF to spy Athens. There is quite a difference between using the in-game spy function, and infiltrating. We're talking about the 2nd thing here, no the in-game spy function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 There is quite a difference between using the in-game spy function, and infiltrating. An act that hasn't happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) Shame on you for not trying diplomatic means before resorting to conflict, and shame on you for expecting others to do something you outright refuse to do. Im not the one taking part in the beatdown of a much smaller alliance under seriously dubious circumstances. However its the modus operandi of Athens. Edited December 27, 2009 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Im not the one taking part in the beatdown of a much smaller alliance under seriously dubious circumstances. http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.as...&Extended=1 Neither is he. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galapagos Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Just as anybody with an ounce of reason and objectivity suspected in Athens original thread, the information used to cobble together their casus belli has been intenionally taken out of context and warped to suit their predetermined objective. These people obviosuly had an axe to grind against TPF. Athens has a track record for this kind of maliciousness. If there's one alliance that cybernations would be better off without, it is you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necromancer V4L Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Athens has a track record for this kind of maliciousness. If there's one alliance that cybernations would be better off without, it is you. Big talk coming from the constant 13th place guys. Open your damn eyes and read what's going on before you shrug it off as Athens being the next global hegemony. They have a reason, they are going to war, that's the end of the story. The only questions left now are if any of TPF's allies are willing to stand up for them or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) We should call this one the noCB war. Edited December 27, 2009 by iamthey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jaym Il Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 You see, there surrender terms are that they're to declare white peace against EVERYONE, see some of you were claiming TPF committed act of war during the war, then some of you have said they had 'intentions;...but you see the surrender terms say that all acts of war must stop, against all alliances, whether under signed or not. Wether they're at war or not, The wording of the terms is such that it covers the entire set of alliances. Ok, let's look at it like this. Here is a scenario. You and I, along with some third party(In this case, let's say Athens). If today Athens were to spy on IRON or do some other action intended to hurt IRON, and then immediately after that, I sign an agreement with Athens that contains a clause stating that they must give white peace to all parties they are at war with. Are you telling me, that because I signed that agreement with them, that you are just going to smile and be on your merry way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir jesus Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Big talk coming from the constant 13th place guys.... I mean, really? That's how you open your response with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilkenny Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I don't know where you've been, but pretty much all logs have 1-2 central people in them and these people have a grudge against TPF because they've been at war before and TPF has been spying on them for six months. But thanks for your expert analysis of the logs. Wow, thanks for your response. The nation of Huntonian is immediately sending scholars to your nation to help with the lack of education your citizens are showing. Hopefully with plenty of help and extra time studing, they will soon learn to read. Thank you for taking the time to cry for help, but really next time just straight ask for help. Some might not realize what you are truely saying. btw, don't see anyone from Athens, GOD, RoK, or /m\ in those logs at all just to help you out in advance there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir jesus Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Ok, let's look at it like this.Here is a scenario. You and I, along with some third party(In this case, let's say Athens). If today Athens were to spy on IRON or do some other action intended to hurt IRON, and then immediately after that, I sign an agreement with Athens that contains a clause stating that they must give white peace to all parties they are at war with. Are you telling me, that because I signed that agreement with them, that you are just going to smile and be on your merry way? Your scenario doesn't even remotely fit the situation. The Karma War was a unique set of circumstances that cannot be summed up with a hypothetical scenario such as the one you have described. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pasquali Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 There is quite a difference between using the in-game spy function, and infiltrating. We're talking about the 2nd thing here, no the in-game spy function. No, there's not. You're saying some spying is ok and some spying is not ok. Spying is spying, whether you use your creativity to do it or do it the way someone laid it out for you to do ahead of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Your scenario doesn't even remotely fit the situation. The Karma War was a unique set of circumstances that cannot be summed up with a hypothetical scenario such as the one you have described. Actually that's pretty much on the dot. The clause everyone was citing was put in to force TPF to peace out former Vox, with whom they were still technically at war. The idea that it absolved them of crimes committed against Athens without Athens even being aware of them or mutually agreeing to that absolution is idiotic at best. You can't unilaterally end a conflict without consulting both combatants, and formulating an elaborate plan to destroy an alliance from within itself is an act of war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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