pasquali

I have to say this is good to see. It's overdue. I only wish the infestation had never been allowed to happen in the first place. Gentlemen, regardless of our history, you have a friend in Old Guard.

Woohoo! Great to see this come together. We look forward to working alongside you in good times and bad.

[quote name='WildeKaard' timestamp='1280266290' post='2391639'] In an additional point of irony, if you had gotten your desired conflict, those you would have crossed swords with would almost certainly not be the ones that, in your personal point of view, committed said atrocities [/quote] Actually, much of the general membership of GGA is still recognizable. They had many loyal members who stood with them no matter how ridiculous it got. Although many of the movers and shakers had left, including most of the architects of the Viridicide and subsequent reign of terror on Green, the general membership was what enabled the leadership to do those things because they gave support. So I would have thoroughly enjoyed a mix-up with them, even if many of the specific ones were no longer there.

[quote name='Andre27' timestamp='1280261874' post='2391543'] Many things can be said about the GGA, but that they "got clean away with it" is certainly not one of them. Few alliances, if any, have had to live under a magnifying glass such as the GGA. Although there are certainly things in the GGA history which do not deserve praise, there are many alliances (including some of those who post denigrating comments here) who have committed far greater atrocities and gotten "clean away with it". The Grand Global Alliance paid for every ounce of history, claiming they "got away with it" is either a bliss of ignorance or blinded by hate or propaganda. I'll repeat my previous statement: Good luck to those former GGA members. [/quote] I know full well the history, both ancient and recent. I'm speaking from my personal point of view. I never got to cross swords with them, and that was one of the last things I really wanted to do on Planet Bob. So I suppose you could say blinded by hate. Not really blinded, but yeah, my statement is personal and although hate is a strong word, it's not far off. There are other alliances and other atrocities, yes. None that have affected me and mine so closely and dearly, though.

I can't say I'm saddened at this. I am pleased, though not surprised, at Ronin's gallant gesture. Airme, you're a better man than I. GGA, I would have dearly loved to cross swords with you for past wrongs. Alas, we ended up on the same side of conflicts, and the time of reckoning will never come. Rest in peace, then, knowing that you got clean away with it. Well played!

Very glad to see this happen. We could ask for no better allies than Zenith, tried and true till the end. We're delighted to continue our association with them through TFD.

Happy Birthday, IRON!

Did someone say Absolut? I'm with this all the way, baby!

Congratulations! Wear them with pride, you earned every one.

Big props to Gramlins, every bit as tough as we knew they would be. This was my first time fighting alongside Zenith, and I was blown away by their ability - if Fark wouldn't have locked them down, we would have been doing pretty good. Alliance that most impressed me, though, was NSO. Well done on all counts!

[quote name='Timmehhh' date='23 February 2010 - 03:00 PM' timestamp='1266955433' post='2199399'] Never expected this to happen, bleh [/quote] I did. In fact, I pretty much called it two months ago. Still pretty sad to see.

[quote name='Diomede' date='22 February 2010 - 06:48 PM' timestamp='1266882525' post='2198113'] I find it pretty how there's lot's of former Cit (all six alliances) expressing a desire to have fought on the same side, myself included. One day maybe. One day. [/quote] You got that right. Cit never got to roll together... I wish to God it had. It would have been a thing of pure beauty. edit: Also, o/ peace! Gramlins, it hurt just as bad as I knew it would. Now I begin my new career as the planet's oldest tech seller. edit 2: Stone Imperial Russian Stout Dark, smooth, and heavy Polished granite slides down fast Head hurts at sunrise

Very recently Old Guard celebrated our third birthday. In honor of the occasion, we all got smashed along with our good friends Zenith and Gramlins. Heck, we even had some pretty cool Filipino guys show up, and ya'll know Fark doesn't pass up an opportunity to get wasted... At this point I probably ought to say something about a long and winding road, or a fun ride, or some such nonsense, but in all honesty most of us are still nursing hangovers (myself included). Regardless, I am in charge of External Affairs type things, which includes making announcements. So I'd like to say thanks to all of Planet Bob for making this a fun place to dwell. Heros, Villians, trolls and martyrs alike have all shaped us into what we are today. We started as the GPA retirement home, and who knows where we'll end up. But one thing's for sure - we're having fun getting there. Now I'm going to fade back to my usual quiet self. For God's sake, no hails! The noise! My head!!

I'd like to thank Gramlins and Fark both personally and on behalf of my alliance for their courtesy and general pleasantness during the slugfest and for the consideration given in these peace negotiations. For any who think there might be something amiss or sinister in this, there isn't. Thanks for the concern, but pretty much everyone involved is more than satisfied.

Syz, that was extremely well put, and sums up my own feelings as well.

I doubt IRON and TOP would continue fighting if peace with some reasonable reps was offered. The reps that I heard MK demands is all tech over 1k from every nation in the offending alliances. If that's true, and MK won't budge, then I don't see this war ending until every TOP and IRON nation is nuked down to 1k or less tech. Which could take a very long time. I know I would never surrender to reps like that. Some reps, yes, especially if I had made the blunder they did, but I'd prefer to slug it out to the bitter end than pay reps that would cripple me to that extent.

Two questions: 1) Was TOP obligated to enter that war at all? 2) If the answer is "no", or even "Yes, but it was questionable because they had other conflicting treaties", then ANYTHING other than "Thanks for the help!" is the height of ingratitude. Any time someone bleeds for you, especially when they are not obligated to, turning around and trashing the way they did it is absolutely pathetic.

Rogued? Not exactly. It's pretty dim to believe that this hasn't been building since before the Karma war even ended. Back then, members were breathing threat and doom against TOP and IRON specifically. Did IRON and TOP have reason to attack C&G? Perhaps, the events of the past year or so were pretty thick with menace against both of them. However, words do not equal actions, and up till now it had just been words. They stated the reason for throwing the first punch pretty plainly in the DoW, and it seemed honest enough to me. Which doesn't change the fact that it's fairly obvious it was a boneheaded move and that they both got played and played themselves into a horrible situation. Now that C&G has them on the hook (where it had been trying to get them for a long time), it's pretty naieve to think they'll let them off easily. Or perhaps at all.

[quote name='Krack' date='09 February 2010 - 11:47 AM' timestamp='1265734077' post='2170712'] When was the last time you thanked someone in GOD for pledging full support to Gramlins (and agreeing to defend them unconditionally, even though they hated them) when they were leaving tC and there was an excellent chance they'd get rolled if they were isolated? [/quote] That is no doubt thanks worthy. It's not quite along the same magnitude as providing the make-or-break power to finally rid the world of an institution that many thought unbeatable and then getting slapped in the face repeatedly by those you just saved from defeat and crushing terms, though.

Give 'em hell, FCC and Argent. Always love you guys.

What of it? I really don't see why that peace agreement is a problem. They were willing to help, but not willing to act as an enforcer for others to get reps. The others had the option to take the help or leave it. The Citadel was rightly a higher priority than helping Karma win. Gramlins wanted Karma to win, but they did not want to alienate their Citadel allies any more than necessary. If they could all come to some agreement to make that happen, more power to them. Just because others wanted to use Gramlin muscle to get reps for themselves does not mean Gramlins had an obligation to let themselves be used in that fashion. Gramlin intent should have been fairly obvious. They did not particularly view IRON as enemies, as evidenced by the treaty they held with IRON until the moment they declared. Not only that, they were close friends of TOP who were close friends of IRON, and by crushing IRON they would be spitting on their friendship with TOP. However, they had no love for the Hegemony and thought the world would be a better place without it. Again, the proper response would have been to thank them for their quite possibly tide-turning assistance and move on. edit: KingSrqt, it sounds like your beef is that their allies weren't informed. According to others, though, they were informed at the beginning of the war, and it was kind of a "take it or leave it" thing. I see nothing wrong with saying you'll help someone with something, but there are limits. You weren't too proud to accept that help because it would have been EXTREMELY painful if you didn't, but then you want to badmouth them for placing conditions on it. Something ain't right with that.

[quote name='Krack' date='09 February 2010 - 11:30 AM' timestamp='1265733030' post='2170686'] Well, then you fought in the Karma War for the same reason everyone else did (except for maybe TOP). It's not like everyone else in Karma was best buddies at the time of the war (my understanding is that relationships have improved tremendously since then) - the only thing everyone could agree on, in the lead up to the war, was no matter how much dislike and distrust there was within the coalition: (1) If everyone didn't fight in defense of everyone else, we'd lose, and (2) Nobody trusted, or liked the behavior of, most of tC and all of One Vision As an aside, that's why the "Karma is just the same as the Hegemony" mantra was such stupid propaganda from the losing Hegemony side; the only thing people in Karma could agree on was that no matter how much you may dislike or distrust some in Karma, everyone knew how unlikable and untrustworthy the Hegemony was. [/quote] Yup - I agree with pretty much everything you said. I happen to think that without Gramlins, (and FCC - and even TOP) doing what they did, at great cost to themselves both politically and physically, Karma would have lost. I also think that they got a pretty lousy thanks for what they did.

It should have been obvious that he could only speak for his alliance. If so, who was anyone else to say jack about it? The proper response would have been: "Hey - thanks, guys. You really took a lot of heat off of us. We appreciate it!" Instead, it was "Hey! Where are you going? We want reps, and we need you to still fight so that we can get them! Now we hate you!" If Chill had even pretended that he could speak for all the other alliances, he would have been laughed out of the country. I would have laughed him out myself. Every other alliance involved had the option of continuing to press for reps without Gramlins. Except whoops, they weren't tough enough. Oh well.

[quote name='Krack' date='09 February 2010 - 11:10 AM' timestamp='1265731820' post='2170658'] Excuse me, what alliance were you in at that time? [/quote] I was in FCC. I went there about a month and a half prior to the outbreak of the war, because I could smell it shaping up. I knew OG was going to fall along Hegemony lines, I didn't like NPO or the Hegemony way of doing things, and I'd be damned if I was going to fight for them against a lot of alliances that I did like. I liked Vanguard, MK, and many others until their insane ingratitude and hatred became evident as Karma was winding down. But yeah, I was in FCC, I fought against IRON. Basically we were a miniature version of Gramlins in that war, we fought and moved along with them.

[quote name='KingSrqt' date='09 February 2010 - 10:54 AM' timestamp='1265730848' post='2170625'] OOC: I read your TE AA and thought it was SE, I am at work and slightly distracted [/quote] OOC: Heheh - it's ok, Link. - Barch