Alterego Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) There where NO formal Declarations of War by TPF on Athens or vise versa. There was no mention of Athens in their declaration of war: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54989 There was no mention of TPF in our declaration of war: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54859 At no point in time during the Karma War did Athens or TPF engage each other. At no point in time did Athens or TPF speak to each other during this war. At no point in time did Athens attend any of the meetings that concerned the TPF front because we where not involved in that front. Zero Hour came clean, out of guilt, nothing more, nothing less. You need to read this http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=2056205 Athens were Karma and TPF surrendered to all Karma Edited December 27, 2009 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I know it's been brought up like a million times, but why are six month old logs valid CBs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 logs also stopped mattering after KARMA. i swear, i need a pic of a hippo and of a critical hit for my avatar... Well, whatever. I don't really care, \m/ is in the fight, which means I'm not, since I'm carrying over my bel air "won't help them in any way" to \m/, since it's just bel air with a new name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popsumpot Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Whether or not the CB is valid (which I believe it is), TPF deserves this one. Kinda ironic that you're wearing the \m/ tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I know it's been brought up like a million times, but why are six month old logs valid CBs? my only guess is they just found out about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkahoolik Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Did they really? Seems I missed the memo. i'd search for npo's leaders log dump but i'm the lazy type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I know it's been brought up like a million times, but why are six month old logs valid CBs? If the police find out that you committed an attempted murder 6 months ago, do they go "Oh well, it was 6 months ago?" TPF committed an act of aggression against us. We did nothing to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_GunneR_ Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I know it's been brought up like a million times, but why are six month old logs valid CBs? Is six months really such a long time? Is the same person who ordered the acts not still in charge? Is it not possible they could be ordered again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Thank you, happy to be here. Welcome, I'm Glad. TPF were not at war with Athens. So why did TPF surrender to "Karma" AND those specific alliances. In addition to that..let me remind you of this term: Article II ~ ZI lists and warsTPF formally releases all nations from any ZI, PZI, or EZI lists and declares a white peace in all wars against any nation, alliance affiliation, or alliance that is not the undersigned. TPF releases all claims on all alliances (including surrender terms but not treaty partners) and alliance affiliations other than The Phoenix Federation and applicable applicant alliance affiliations. No offensive war or spy attack may be launched against any nation except ghosts and rogues against TPF for the duration of these terms, under the provisions outlined in Article IV. Seeing that TPF had cleared the terms, we can assume they did not violate them, so do you have in your hand new evidence to support they've committed act of war after expiration of terms? No, the CB is that TPF set up a splinter cell that began operations to infiltrate and harm Athens and that TPF planned to use similar cells to commit similar acts against RoK and apparently Sparta. There is no "what if" about it. Zero Hour was created. Yes, facing a prospect of eternal war, it was created, when war ended, did ZH or any other cell continue to operate? Again, are acts of war during war liable to become CB 6 or so months afters the said wars? Zero Hour was created, that if proof they planned to put it into action. Zero Hour obtained a protectorate with Athens as per TPF's plans. The logs posts only a few posts up show Mhawk and Zero Hour members discussing their activities and mentioning their desire to cause harm to the alliances they were targeting. Again, that happened during the War, Also read the surrender term clause above. I suggest you read the logs in the Athens DoW thread and then you will see that a lot of what was alleged in that DoW has not been addressed here. Read the surrender term clause above. So Athens is going to war as they feel an act of war was committed against them during a war 6 months ago? And finally, I'm not making any accusations, I'm asking questions about the evidence presented and the response to it. My apologies regarding the accusations. Now, I'll await Mhawk to actually answer my questions now that I have dealt with your attempt at deflection. I would not try to deflect on a thread reflecting the absurdity of the CB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 i'd search for npo's leaders log dump but i'm the lazy type. Ok, well, you aren't the first person to drop a comment and then refuse support it with any evidence and you certainly won't be the last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 If the police find out that you committed an attempted murder 6 months ago, do they go "Oh well, it was 6 months ago?" TPF committed an act of aggression against us. We did nothing to them. Then why aren't you still at war with the nations that you once fought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James I Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I know it's been brought up like a million times, but why are six month old logs valid CBs? Why wouldn't they be? It isn't as though Athens and Ragnarok have been waiting to pounce on this when the time is right - they've only just learnt of the attempts at infiltration. Casus belli don't have expiry dates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkonesMickLoud Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Probably the same place the full proof is that you never attempted to infiltrate Athens. It's damned hard to prove a negative. TheAUT said that he had the full proof. Why would MK need to infiltrate Athens? It's quite easy to prove something didn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Expects Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 If the police find out that you committed an attempted murder 6 months ago, do they go "Oh well, it was 6 months ago?" TPF committed an act of aggression against us. We did nothing to them. You were at war with them at the time, Karma v Hegemony, TPFs acts are one of the many acceptable facets of CN warfare, the fact that these acts ended prior to TPF obtaining peace means they are irrelevant today, and certainly cannot be used as a CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgoods45 Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 You need to read thishttp://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=2056205 Athens were Karma and TPF surrendered to all Karma Article I ~ SurrenderThe Phoenix Federation (TPF) hereby formally surrenders and admits defeat to Karma, and specifically to Poison Clan, Mushroom Kingdom, Federation of Buccaneers, Nueva Vida, Christian Coalition of Countries, and the Greenland Republic. Signaturesfor The Phoenix Federation Airikr: Phoenix Magistrate Beernuts|Away: Phoenix Magistrate Desperado: Phoenix Magistrate Jbone: Phoenix Ember and Evil Overlord Emeritus Oneballman: Phoenix Ember and Evil Overlord Emeritus Kilkenny: Minister of War The Crimson King: Minster of Finance for Mushroom Kingdom King: Archon Prince: SirWilliam Lord High Treasurer: Azaghul Lord High Vanguard: babyjesus Lord High Envoy: potato Lord High Communicator: delendum Lord High Inductor: lebubu for Poison Clan Master Killer - Twisted The Right Hand Man - Pooks MoD - Syrik MoF - Don Fernando MoFA - Energizer MoIA - Mushi The Man - Trinity Hybrid Venom - Revelation Master of the Domain - Banslam for Federation of Buccaneers Runz - Pirate King Sagha - Pirate King Care Bear - Speaker of the Mast Oda - Speaker of the Crew for Nueva Vida Nelchael, Emperor Gebiv, Lord of War Hizzy, Lord of Brotherhood SpaceGhost, Lord of the Interior Shillelagh, Lord of the Exchequer for Greenland Republic Archon: Al Vice-Archon: Shamedmonkey Minister of Foreign Affairs: Ilselu1 Minister of Defence: Kestral Minister of Finance: Kosherness Minister of Interior: Acid Senate: Wurzel, Gn0x, Cripple, Jenker, Paulpig I do not see Athens in the lists of alliances they surrendered to, I also don't see our signature block there. I would also like to note that TPF declared war on Avalanche and not the entirety of Karma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venizelos Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 it doesn't matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Bad Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Wait people think ZH is working for Mhawk? LOL Now that would prove to be one if the stupdist things I have hear in awhile so I guessing Athens, RoK etc are completely aware of the great dislike between the two parties and are not stupid enough to think they have talked since the war. So the CB is from what they did during the war? Cause that opens up every single alliance that has ever been at war to a random CB for anything said or planned during it. And that is going to be a tool that can be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weirdgus Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Act of War during war is now liable to be a CB six months later?, the light of new world shines upon us. No attempts at all for diplomacy? They just needed an excuse, not a CB or they'd talk it out first. This is what it's all about, very shameful and I must admit I didn't expect Athens and Rok to sink this low. Hang in there TPF and make them bleed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Then why aren't you still at war with the nations that you once fought? That would be because we agreed and signed peace with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkonesMickLoud Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Then why aren't you still at war with the nations that you once fought? You're confusing open, declared hostilities with espionage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiL3nT Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) If the police find out that you committed an attempted murder 6 months ago, do they go "Oh well, it was 6 months ago?" TPF committed an act of aggression against us. We did nothing to them. All you have to add is murder this and statue of limitations that, who was murdered? i surely don't see it. Perhaps you should locate some wit before posting again because your not adding any sort of relevant information to the thread. It's a game and this is not murder so find another excuse. Edited December 27, 2009 by SiL3nT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 If the police find out that you committed an attempted murder 6 months ago, do they go "Oh well, it was 6 months ago?" TPF committed an act of aggression against us. We did nothing to them. Rubbish. This would be if they were in a mass brawl with their friends against a bunch of your friends and during the brawl said they would get you but then made peace with you and your crony's. Roll on 8 months later, you find out what they said during the fight and get your buddies together and get them for what they said during the big fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkahoolik Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Ok, well, you aren't the first person to drop a comment and then refuse support it with any evidence and you certainly won't be the last. ooh, you're mistaken... i'm not here to support TPF... i don't really care about them... really... i'm just here to point out KARMA's hypocrisy. yeah, i nurture a grudge... and i nurture it well as for the log dump that whoever was in charge of npo did, i'll point out to the hippo and the crit that my sig prolly will never have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 If the police find out that you committed an attempted murder 6 months ago, do they go "Oh well, it was 6 months ago?" TPF committed an act of aggression against us. We did nothing to them. If X is at war with forces Y is allied with, if I was a part of X I'd definitely put in some sort of evil !@#$%^& plan to hurt Y. Is six months really such a long time? Is the same person who ordered the acts not still in charge? Is it not possible they could be ordered again? Your excuse is that six months ago, somebody who was in power in an alliance ordered an act of war against an alliance that was on an opposing side of them in a war, and that they could do it again? Holy !@#$, you are a moron. Isn't it possible Athens could do the same thing? Isn't it possible Athens is doing the same thing now but their co-conspirators haven't come forward? We should probably declare on Athens just to be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkonesMickLoud Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 You were at war with them at the time, Karma v Hegemony, TPFs acts are one of the many acceptable facets of CN warfare, the fact that these acts ended prior to TPF obtaining peace means they are irrelevant today, and certainly cannot be used as a CB. Athens was not at war with TPF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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