This has gone on long enough

[Penkala]

Edit: saw mod's post. Nintenderek or others, if you want to discuss how stupid it is to say "hurf durf they disbanded this means they fail at fighting!", I will be on IRC.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Penkala

[hizzy]

lol I love how 4 people edited their posts up to 45 minutes after a mod warning. Way to be on the ball, team!

[Ejayrazz]

I just wanted to say hi. Also, interesting story.

[Bob Janova]

Well, here's something that neither \m/ nor Polaris did: Signed an MADP and then broke it just afterwards! Good to get the thread back on track!

[x Tela x]

Wait wait wait, did you just say that you had considered trying to get NPO expelled from 1V and in the same breath that you had also considered trying to get NpO expelled from BLEU. WOW! You just did more to hurt my opinion of Echelon(and yourself for that matter) than this entire thread. Congrats!

The two instances were separated by a great deal of time. In both cases, the alliances in question were causing harm to the integrity of their bloc. In both cases, the bloc inevitably folded due in large part to the aggressive nature of the alliances in question.

I've posted numerous times that I felt Polaris had been using BLEU as a driving force to achieve their political goals. In no way am I excusing my actions, or Echelon's actions at that time, as we willingly went along for the ride, and indeed used BLEU for our own gain, albeit on a much smaller scale. Either way, it is evident that BLEU had become a strong military bloc, with team unity being a secondary consideration. I certainly won't lay all the blame for that change on Polaris. Like I said, every one of us in BLEU colluded to cause that change over time.

It really is a shame how it turned out. I'd go back and change a lot of things if I could, starting with how the UJW went down, through Echelon and MCXA's resignations, and ending with the NoCB war. A lot of things went wrong with that bloc, a bloc that had the most potential of any, IMO. It wasn't a mega-bloc like WUT or Q, but with the team unity concept behind it, it had a bright future at one point.

Now, step right up. Who'll be the next to quote a snippet and take it out of context? That's all anyone has done so far. So, have at it.

[Jack Diorno]

Hahahahah ahahahaha hahaha

I didn't care to read the entire thread, but the op makes me smile. Echelon dropped their friends in the NpO to save their infra in the NoCB war and then tried to do it again to the NPO in the karma war. Your excuses are pitiful, just take responsibility for being the cowards you are, instead of providing empty words to try regain any kind of good reputation.

This made me laugh when I read your withdrawal from BLEU:

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...mp;#entry700504

"To clarify, Echelon still supports her allies in Polaris and Pacifica."

hahahahahahahaha

I am happy though, that Echelon, such a cowardly alliance, has fallen to the bottom of the pecking order.

[Groucho Marx]

You don't know who \m/ was, do you?

Better than you ever could.

[LegendoftheSkies]

Better than you ever could.

So is it true that Bel Air is \m/ 2.0?

[KinKiac]

The two instances were separated by a great deal of time. In both cases, the alliances in question were causing harm to the integrity of their bloc. In both cases, the bloc inevitably folded due in large part to the aggressive nature of the alliances in question.

I've posted numerous times that I felt Polaris had been using BLEU as a driving force to achieve their political goals. In no way am I excusing my actions, or Echelon's actions at that time, as we willingly went along for the ride, and indeed used BLEU for our own gain, albeit on a much smaller scale. Either way, it is evident that BLEU had become a strong military bloc, with team unity being a secondary consideration. I certainly won't lay all the blame for that change on Polaris. Like I said, every one of us in BLEU colluded to cause that change over time.

It really is a shame how it turned out. I'd go back and change a lot of things if I could, starting with how the UJW went down, through Echelon and MCXA's resignations, and ending with the NoCB war. A lot of things went wrong with that bloc, a bloc that had the most potential of any, IMO. It wasn't a mega-bloc like WUT or Q, but with the team unity concept behind it, it had a bright future at one point.

Now, step right up. Who'll be the next to quote a snippet and take it out of context? That's all anyone has done so far. So, have at it.

No I wasnt taking what you said out of context, and I realize that both incidents didnt take place at the same time. What i was commenting on is the fact that twice, not once but twice, your alliance tried to expel what was probably the most influential member of the bloc you were in at the time. That has got to be one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard, in both cases. I wasnt taking it out of context, the ideas were dumb regardless of the actions of the Orders or their intentions. The fact that you had the balls to even try or even consider trying, considering you were not that important nor influential an alliance in either bloc afaik, goes a long way to show what Echelon might do to a bloc they belong to in the future. The same goes for yourself personally, and the fact that you would so freely let the world know about such intentions, again goes a long way to describe your character. I know you are not politically tied to anyone so you can say what you want, but revealing things from your former alliance that are not public knowledge shows how little you respect your former friends.

[x Tela x]

No I wasnt taking what you said out of context, and I realize that both incidents didnt take place at the same time. What i was commenting on is the fact that twice, not once but twice, your alliance tried to expel what was probably the most influential member of the bloc you were in at the time. That has got to be one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard, in both cases. I wasnt taking it out of context, the ideas were dumb regardless of the actions of the Orders or their intentions. The fact that you had the balls to even try or even consider trying, considering you were not that important nor influential an alliance in either bloc afaik, goes a long way to show what Echelon might do to a bloc they belong to in the future. The same goes for yourself personally, and the fact that you would so freely let the world know about such intentions, again goes a long way to describe your character. I know you are not politically tied to anyone so you can say what you want, but revealing things from your former alliance that are not public knowledge shows how little you respect your former friends.

While not public knowledge previously, it wasn't exactly a secret. Not a big deal that I stated the facts in this case.

Also, you can't really claim that NPpO weren't harming their respective blocs with their actions, because inevitably those actions led to them being rolled. Expulsion wasn't all that far fetched at the time, in either of these cases. In both cases, it was 100% warranted.

[Dochartaigh]

While not public knowledge previously, it wasn't exactly a secret. Not a big deal that I stated the facts in this case.

Also, you can't really claim that NPpO weren't harming their respective blocs with their actions, because inevitably those actions led to them being rolled. Expulsion wasn't all that far fetched at the time, in either of these cases. In both cases, it was 100% warranted.

while i would say that the Orders had their hand in much, to claim that it was solely the orders who were harming the bloc kinda neglects the fact that you keep stating how Echelon went along for the ride. Fact is, at least with BLEU, had you any issues with anything done, you could have brought them up.

i do love the fact that it seems that you and MCXA had so many issues with how crap was done within BLEU but barely if ever brought it up. ya'll keep going with the "we just went along until we had enough" bit. please. ya'll went along until you got a better offer, then used those excuses as a cover story.

frankly, it seems that only MCXA and Echelon had so many "issues" that they left BLEU. i did not see any other alliance doin that. it also amazes me that it was just "coincidence" that ya'll left shortly before BLEU got rolled.....

[Heft]

While not public knowledge previously, it wasn't exactly a secret. Not a big deal that I stated the facts in this case.

Also, you can't really claim that NPpO weren't harming their respective blocs with their actions, because inevitably those actions led to them being rolled. Expulsion wasn't all that far fetched at the time, in either of these cases. In both cases, it was 100% warranted.

Considering how Echelon used One Vision as cover for its own diplomatic ineptitudes pretty much right after joining, threatening anyone else with expulsion is pretty laughable. And that's just one of the many things wrong with that idea.

[hizzy]

the bloc inevitably folded due... to the aggressive... question.

I've posted numerous times that I... went along for the ride... on a... smaller scale. I certainly won't lay... on Polaris.

It really is a shame how... Echelon... had the most potential..., IMO.

Now, step right up. Who'll be the next to quote a snippet and take it out of context? That's all anyone has done so far. So, have at it.

I have way too much time on my hands.

That being said though, while I am honestly trying to believe what you're saying through and through (it seems sincere), part of what still bothers me and probably a lot of other people is that a lot of that stuff was done in a calculated manner... it wasn't like an accident that just happened and you didn't have time to fix it before !@#$ hit the fan. There was a ton of planning in the works, you knew Polaris was going to get rolled... but chose to ignore it all together.

[KinKiac]

While not public knowledge previously, it wasn't exactly a secret. Not a big deal that I stated the facts in this case.

Also, you can't really claim that NPpO weren't harming their respective blocs with their actions, because inevitably those actions led to them being rolled. Expulsion wasn't all that far fetched at the time, in either of these cases. In both cases, it was 100% warranted.

No, its probably not a big deal what you said. But it stills shows that you are willing give up info from former alliances once no longer tied to said alliance. Hence the remark about your character.

And as for "claiming that the Order's were not harming their respective blocs", way to try to put words in my mouth. I never said that. I simply said that you and Echelon were dumb to even try. It would be like GLOF or 1TF trying to get NV expelled from AZTEC. Its just not going to happen, EVER, so why bother. Now, if the rest of 1V or BLEU had come to you with the idea, that would be a different story, but for Echelon to bring it up is just disrespectful to everyone else in the bloc considering you were not that big of a player in either bloc.

Not only that, but friends stick together through thick AND thin. Do you know how many times Ive been to the bar with buddies who just cant let stuff go and get themselves into fights? I still don't think twice about defending them. Then, afterwards, back home, I will be like "yo bro, starting with that guy, not cool dude those guys would've, could've, should've, DID rip us a new one. Next time, don't be so dumb." and that would be that. We would still be friends and Id still stick up for them the next time. The same goes for BLEU. Im quite sure my mates in NV knew what was going to happen, they knew we could be in for some trouble if we stuck by Polar. But you wanna know what? We did anyway and there was absolutely NEVER any questions in anyone's mind about that or about who our loyalty was with. That's friendship, that's honor, something you and Echelon apparently know nothing about.

Canceling your MADP and sitting out the war would have been one thing, still a crappy thing to do to a friend, but meh. Now, canceling and then going fight for the other side, that's a total betrayal, that's not easily forgotten.

[Doitzel]

frankly, it seems that only MCXA and Echelon had so many "issues" that they left BLEU. i did not see any other alliance doin that. it also amazes me that it was just "coincidence" that ya'll left shortly before BLEU got rolled.....

Are you suggesting that they were, perhaps, forewarned in a way by... I dunno, maybe being offered One Vision membership in exchange for leaving BLEU?

[empirica]

The two instances were separated by a great deal of time. In both cases, the alliances in question were causing harm to the integrity of their bloc. In both cases, the bloc inevitably folded due in large part to the aggressive nature of the alliances in question.

I've posted numerous times that I felt Polaris had been using BLEU as a driving force to achieve their political goals. In no way am I excusing my actions, or Echelon's actions at that time, as we willingly went along for the ride, and indeed used BLEU for our own gain, albeit on a much smaller scale. Either way, it is evident that BLEU had become a strong military bloc, with team unity being a secondary consideration. I certainly won't lay all the blame for that change on Polaris. Like I said, every one of us in BLEU colluded to cause that change over time.

It really is a shame how it turned out. I'd go back and change a lot of things if I could, starting with how the UJW went down, through Echelon and MCXA's resignations, and ending with the NoCB war. A lot of things went wrong with that bloc, a bloc that had the most potential of any, IMO. It wasn't a mega-bloc like WUT or Q, but with the team unity concept behind it, it had a bright future at one point.

Now, step right up. Who'll be the next to quote a snippet and take it out of context? That's all anyone has done so far. So, have at it.

I've said this before, and I will say it again. BLEU was a very democratic bloc, and in my time there everyone who wanted to have their voice heard on any particular thing, could, and without fear of retribution or being sold out. Well, we thought that for a time at least. If Echelon or you or anyone else had a problem with something BLEU was doing, you had only to bring it up. The lines of communication were there, and the alliances involved did not shy away from talking about the hard issues in a reasonable manner.

I've heard a couple people think Polar was driving things in BLEU. I have to say that I never felt that way. I also don't recall that being brought up in the communications channels we had open at the time. One party can only do the driving if the other parties let them.

Are you suggesting that they were, perhaps, forewarned in a way by... I dunno, maybe being offered One Vision membership in exchange for leaving BLEU?

Perhaps. I seem to recall a log on that.

[Dochartaigh]

Are you suggesting that they were, perhaps, forewarned in a way by... I dunno, maybe being offered One Vision membership in exchange for leaving BLEU?

i think that is way to shocking to even consider man. i think if i even attempted to consider that something like that could occur or especially did occur my head would just implode and the whole world would collapse.

[twodivine]

That information is completely incorrect. I even had conversations with various Polar leadership at the time about a possible invitation to One Vision.

Sorry I'm not reading all this bs in this thread up to this point and I'm not going to continue through this thread to dig out more.

Not once did you talk to Polar leadership about 1V. I should know being as I head FA in Polar for most of that time and not once was there a thread of talks created on 1V forums while Polar was a member of 1V about Echelon. Let alone any discussions of any other alliances joining 1V during the time Polar was a member of 1V so I call BS!

[Big Z]

So, out of curiosity, at what point in time were you considering attempting to expel NPO from 1V? You mentioned it but never provided a date or time period. Given the time period of when you attempted to expel Polar from BLEU, I'm sure many are just dying to know when NPO's actions were deemed as "harmful to the integrity of the bloc" from your point of view, to the point of considering trying to expel them from 1V.

[raasaa]

So, out of curiosity, at what point in time were you considering attempting to expel NPO from 1V? You mentioned it but never provided a date or time period. Given the time period of when you attempted to expel Polar from BLEU, I'm sure many are just dying to know when NPO's actions were deemed as "harmful to the integrity of the bloc" from your point of view, to the point of considering trying to expel them from 1V.

duh...isnt it obvious....

when they got wind of the fact that NpO was going to be attacked, they tried to expel them from BLEU...

when they got wind of the fact that NPO was going to be attacked, they tried to expel them from 1V...

Edited December 19, 2009 by raasaa

[Big Z]

duh...isnt it obvious....

when they got wind of the fact that NpO was going to be attacked, they tried to expel them from BLEU...

when they got wind of the fact that NPO was going to be attacked, they tried to expel them from 1V...

Of course but it's more amusing and beneficial to see it being confirmed since otherwise it'd be derided as idle speculation.

[Daikos]

I'd like to nominate this thread for most Brilliant Political Move of 2009.

Caffine1, did you really expect anyone to buy what you're selling here? Did you really think this thread would make Echelon look better? A blind man could have easily seen that the only thing that could come from a thread like this is the opening of wounds and rehashing of old arguments, none of which help Echelon in any way, shape or form.

Echelon dropped the ball, betrayed their friends and cuddled up to NPO at what I'd say was possibly one of the worst times to do it (not that there is any good time to betray friends). Trying to deny it just makes you look worse. Admit that you screwed up and take it like a man.

[x Tela x]

Sorry I'm not reading all this bs in this thread up to this point and I'm not going to continue through this thread to dig out more.

Not once did you talk to Polar leadership about 1V. I should know being as I head FA in Polar for most of that time and not once was there a thread of talks created on 1V forums while Polar was a member of 1V about Echelon. Let alone any discussions of any other alliances joining 1V during the time Polar was a member of 1V so I call BS!

Call BS all you want, but I know that we spoke with Sponge many times about entrance to 1V, but nothing concrete or official ever came out of our discussions.

[twodivine]

Call BS all you want, but I know that we spoke with Sponge many times about entrance to 1V, but nothing concrete or official ever came out of our discussions.

Talking to 1 person doesn't constitute talking to Leadership of an alliance about entrance into anything. The fact still remains that at no point from the founding of 1V to Polar being kicked from 1V was there ever any talks of bringing in any other alliances. So as much as you want to say you talked to people there wasn't much effort by those you did talk too to talk to anyone else. And as much activity I was involved in with much of the FA work with both BLEU and 1V Echelon would of came up if there was true discussions and not some back room and backstabbing planning on your alliances part and those you considered "allies" in the end.

I had a lot of respect for Echelon until the leaving of BLEU without even talking to anyone about your "change" of direction. If you were so concerned about the direction of BLEU then you could of addressed it and brought up your concerns and we all could of worked for the betterment of BLEU. But what did you do? Run, and state BLEU isn't the same bye. Then join 1V.

Echelon's actions were no more than saving their own backside and stabbing friends in the back with secret talks and not checking your intel for the truth behind whatever you were told to take the actions you took.

[zzzptm]

OFFICIAL NUEVA VIDA HEALTH ADVISORY

FROM THE LORD OF THE INTERIOR

The Nueva Vida Ministry of the Interior is issuing an advisory against consumption of beverages with Caffine in them. Consuming beverages with that contaminant in them is hazardous to your honor.

/s/

Zzzptm

Nueva Vida

Lord of the Interior