This has gone on long enough

[Caffine]

A Message from the Desk of Caffine

Note, not my actual desk.

First of all, I'd like to note that I am in no way speaking for Echelon, nor am I representing Echelon's viewpoint of the issue. I was privy to much of the information as it was happening, and I feel that enough time has passed that things need to be straightened out.

Echelon upgraded with Polar right before they left BLEU because they wanted to reaffirm the strength of the bond. Echelon left BLEU for several reasons, party of it was that, and let me stress this Echelon, among others turned BLEU into something completely different from what it was at the start. It no longer suited Echelon anymore. Secondly, if you all recall, this was a time when Electronsponge was off his rocker, and was ticking off everybody and everybody. (Sponge I love you like a second cousin, but you really were stirring the pot in ways that made even Echelon want to get their own kitchen.)

The belief that Echelon turned their back on Polar for Pacifica is not accurate. When Echelon signed the MADP with Polar, they were intent on keeping up that strong relationship (If I recall correctly, certain 1V leaders were not happy with the signing of the upgrade at all). As I said above, Echelon had already decided to leave BLEU for those reasons. Was Echelon aware that leaving BLEU would help with getting into 1V? I believe so, but as I just said, it was already in the works (although it wasn't something they were going to let out at the time--a large part of strategy is perception--as I was playing a large role with FA and spent months trying to get Echelon into One Vision). It was after Echelon left BLEU, when they received what we now have come to understand was faulty information, that led to the difference. The misinterpretation (as in, not all of the information was available, nor was Echelon aware that the other information existed) of logs, which resulted from an issue that can not be discussed here (Polaris is aware of why), was what caused the rift. Echelon was of the belief that they had been betrayed and lied to, which is why Echelon then canceled the MADP. Now Echelon knows that that is not the case, and I believe that had cooler heads prevailed on both sides, and had both sides communicated better at this point, that the issue would have ended right there. I will not go into detail, but the decision to cut ties with Polar was not a decision made lightly, and the leadership of Echelon at the time was very conflicted; having been of the understanding that they had been betrayed by some of their closest allies.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Caffine1

[Tushar Dhoot]

Cool story bro.

[Vladimir Stukov II]

I hope that's not your computer desk.

[NLights]

Haha, world of warcraft.

[D34th]

A Message from the Desk of Caffine

First of all, I'd like to note that I am in no way speaking for Echelon, nor am I representing Echelon's viewpoint of the issue. I was privy to much of the information as it was happening, and I feel that enough time has passed that things need to be straightened out.

Echelon upgraded with Polar right before they left BLEU because they wanted to reaffirm the strength of the bond. Echelon left BLEU for several reasons, party of it was that, and let me stress this Echelon, among others turned BLEU into something completely different from what it was at the start. It no longer suited Echelon anymore. Secondly, if you all recall, this was a time when Electronsponge was off his rocker, and was ticking off everybody and everybody. (Sponge I love you like a second cousin, but you really were stirring the pot in ways that made even Echelon want to get their own kitchen.)

The belief that Echelon turned their back on Polar for Pacifica is not true.

I stopped to read here

Nice joke!

[Hasin]

At first I was like someone else lives like me and then when I found out you were joking I cried a little.

[Hydro]

Pigs fly too! Really!

[Some-Guy]

Things in a bold font are important.

BUT NOT AS IMPORTANT AS THINGS IN CAPS!!!!!!

As there are no sentences in the opening post in CAPS we can only conclude that the post and, therefore, the resultant thread is only mildly interesting.

[Nintenderek]

It was after Echelon left BLEU, when they received what we now have come to understand was faulty information, that led to the difference. The misinterpretation (as in, not all of the information was available, nor was Echelon aware that the other information existed) of logs, which resulted from an issue that can not be discussed here, was what caused the rift.

So basically, what your saying is that something else caused the rift, but you can't tell us what that something else is, we just kinda have to believe you because you were there? Nice try, but with out any proof, you can't back this claim up.

[Facade]

Actually it was because Echelon couldn't resist mastabadey.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Facade

[Dochartaigh]

So basically, what your saying is that something else caused the rift, but you can't tell us what that something else is, we just kinda have to believe you because you were there? Nice try, but with out any proof, you can't back this claim up.

this. i am still curious as to why Polaris could not know you were leaving BLEU to join 1V? if ya'll were such buddies with Polaris at that time, enough so that you wanted to upgrade a treaty- why not let Polaris know you were gonna leave BLEU before you did (cuz according to you, that decision was made prior to the upgrade in treaty) and let Polaris know that you were gonna join 1V right after that....

as for the rift- you got info it seems, and never even talked to Polaris about it. and you wonder why Polars don't much like Echelon... you ain't exactly helping matters like you thought you would.

[Caffine]

this. i am still curious as to why Polaris could not know you were leaving BLEU to join 1V? if ya'll were such buddies with Polaris at that time, enough so that you wanted to upgrade a treaty- why not let Polaris know you were gonna leave BLEU before you did (cuz according to you, that decision was made prior to the upgrade in treaty) and let Polaris know that you were gonna join 1V right after that....

as for the rift- you got info it seems, and never even talked to Polaris about it. and you wonder why Polars don't much like Echelon... you ain't exactly helping matters like you thought you would.

Polaris is aware of the information. I can not convey the information here to the public.

[PX6DEVASTATER]

Actually it was because Echelon couldn't resist mastabadey.

obviously, but they will have to compete with rahl over that

[Chimaera]

Polaris is aware of the information. I can not convey the information here to the public.

They may be aware of the information, but it's clear they don't find it sufficient for the actions Echelon took.

Normally, the person who commits treason doesn't believe he is committing treason - it's the guy with the knife in his back who knows what really happened.

[hizzy]

Was Echelon aware that leaving BLEU would help with getting into 1V? I believe so, but as I just said, it was already in the works (although it wasn't something they were going to let out at the time--a large part of strategy is perception--as I was playing a large role with FA and spent months trying to get Echelon into One Vision).

Let me get this straight... you had something completely innocent in the works, but part of your strategy was to hide it until it looked like you betrayed BLEU for 1V? Great strategy, Napoleon.

I'll take "Lies, and why we rehash them 18 months later" for 400, Alex.

[Locke]

Actually it was because Echelon couldn't resist mastabadey.

He's hard to resist.

[Caffine]

They may be aware of the information, but it's clear they don't find it sufficient for the actions Echelon took.

Normally, the person who commits treason doesn't believe he is committing treason - it's the guy with the knife in his back who knows what really happened.

No, Polaris is aware of the information that led to the perception. Furthermore, please see

Echelon was of the belief that they had been betrayed and lied to, which is why Echelon then canceled the MADP. Now Echelon knows that that is not the case, and I believe that had cooler heads prevailed on both sides, and had both sides communicated better at this point, that the issue would have ended right there.

[Penguin]

We were certainly not aware that you planned to leave BLEU and join 1V "months" ahead of time as you put it. That seems like a move you wouldn't need to keep secret from a member of both blocs, so why did you?

Edited December 16, 2009 by Penguin

[shahenshah]

One of those times where you say 'this will end well'.

:/ Wasnt needed IMO, anyway Gluck to all parties.

[Caffine]

We were certainly not aware that you planned to leave BLEU and join 1V "months" ahead of time as you put it. That seems like a move you wouldn't need to keep secret from a member of both blocs, so why did you?

An interesting way to spin it but no, I was trying to get Echelon into One Vision for months. The decision to leave BLEU was made, as I explained in the original post, much later.

[Dochartaigh]

We were certainly not aware that you planned to leave BLEU and join 1V "months" ahead of time as you put it. That seems like a move you wouldn't need to keep secret from a member of both blocs, so why did you?

i can attest to this as i was Polar during that time.

i can also attest to the fact that, to my knowledge, most of Polaris did not know Echelon was gonna leave BLEU until they left. though by that point, i do believe most were not surprised.

[Owned-You]

Dear Caffine1, You've reopened old wounds that should have remained shut. As a member of Vidian Government privy to the inner-workings of BLEU that you speak of, it bothers me that you among many others continue to prolong this flagrant lie you posted concerning Echelons (And MCXA, Now TSO mind you) withdrawal from BLEU. You in one line claim that Echelon was no longer suited for BLEU; yet just prior to it by your own admission admit Echelon had a direct impact on the shaping of BLEU into the hideous being at became; as our detractors would put it at least. This is what your alliance, and your other traitorous comrades claim as the main reason of your departure from BLEU and into One Vision. Do you not see the faulty logic within your own statement?

Surely, you cannot expect anybody with an ounce of knowledge to the events at this time to accept this egregious account of events. Because frankly, I cannot; wounds of you and your comrades betrayal were deep and remain unclosed. I cannot fathom the feelings my Polar brethren have towards your alliance, but I cannot slight them for there dislike of your alliance either. You continue to try and make yourselves appear innocent, rather then accept you all slipped up and sold us out. Until then, you and your alliance will have no respect in my eyes.

[Tarikmo]

An interesting way to spin it but no, I was trying to get Echelon into One Vision for months. The decision to leave BLEU was made, as I explained in the original post, much later.

When you say much later, do mean after the noCB war? How much later?

Edited December 16, 2009 by Tarikmo

[Penguin]

An interesting way to spin it but no, I was trying to get Echelon into One Vision for months. The decision to leave BLEU was made, as I explained in the original post, much later.

I'm not trying to spin anything... You were trying to get into 1V for months yet we only found out a week after we were expelled. I asked why you didn't tell us about your intention to join 1V months ahead of time while we were in the bloc and a close ally of yours.

[Caffine]

Dear Caffine1, You've reopened old wounds that should have remained shut. As a member of Vidian Government privy to the inner-workings of BLEU that you speak of, it bothers me that you among many others continue to prolong this flagrant lie you posted concerning Echelons (And MCXA, Now TSO mind you) withdrawal from BLEU. You in one line claim that Echelon was no longer suited for BLEU; yet just prior to it by your own admission admit Echelon had a direct impact on the shaping of BLEU into the hideous being at became; as our detractors would put it at least. This is what your alliance, and your other traitorous comrades claim as the main reason of your departure from BLEU and into One Vision. Do you not see the faulty logic within your own statement?

Surely, you cannot expect anybody with an ounce of knowledge to the events at this time to accept this egregious account of events. Because frankly, I cannot; wounds of you and your comrades betrayal were deep and remain unclosed. I cannot fathom the feelings my Polar brethren have towards your alliance, but I cannot slight them for there dislike of your alliance either. You continue to try and make yourselves appear innocent, rather then accept you all slipped up and sold us out. Until then, you and your alliance will have no respect in my eyes.

Echelon, among others turned BLEU into something completely different from what it was at the start. It no longer suited Echelon anymore.

Try not to be so closed minded when you read, as that's not what I said. What I stated was that Echelon had played a role in creating a monster, and wanted out.