Owned-You Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 After we found it it was too late to undo the damage that was done to the relationship. However I was working from that point forward to try and rebuild that friendship, and Grub himself will attest to that. So being mislead by your supposed allies in the Coalition Of Cowards wasn't an ample enough reason to consider breaking off that obviously deformed relationship? I find this quite ironic considering the context of this conversation. Albeit, I give kudos to you on attempting to make amends for this issue to Grub. But I wonder if the same effort was put in making amends with other former BLEU signatories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffine Posted December 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 (edited) So being mislead by your supposed allies in the Coalition Of Cowards wasn't an ample enough reason to consider breaking off that obviously deformed relationship? I find this quite ironic considering the context of this conversation. Albeit, I give kudos to you on attempting to make amends for this issue to Grub. But I wonder if the same effort was put in making amends with other former BLEU signatories. I never said who it was who gave the initial or later information. Why don't you ask them? I've been trying to rebuild relationships ever since with everybody I could think of. Edited December 17, 2009 by Caffine1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I like how every time someone asks a tough question he just says "that's incorrect" and doesn't elaborate. You canceled on an MADP partner two days after your One Vision partners attacked them and you expect us to think that you're a victim of misinformation? You didn't tell the truth to Polar back then, I don't see why you should be believed now that you're trying to rewrite the past to your favour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Without a statement by Grub in it, this thread has extremely little value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 After we found it it was too late to undo the damage that was done to the relationship. However I was working from that point forward to try and rebuild that friendship, and Grub himself will attest to that. What I was getting at, and that you seem to be tip-toeing around, is that you claim you were lied to by someone, yet you stuck by them even after finding out. This is of course, assuming your entire story is true. In reality as I pointed out it has more plot holes than the last Terminator movie (the one where Kyle Reese is captured and identified by Skynet before he gets a chance to impregnate Connor's mom, but for some reason Skynet, the world's most logical computer decides not to kill him and win the game. What a load of !@#$.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned-You Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I never said who it was who gave the initial or later information.Why don't you ask them? I've been trying to rebuild relationships ever since with everybody I could think of. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out whom would feed you this type of information. However, if I'm wrong by all means correct me by reveling whom exactly gave you this faulty information as well as the time-frame for it; and I suppose what if any actions you took in regards to being mislead. As for asking the members of BLEU, I could do that but based on the lack of an embassy on the Vidian forums I'm not particularly inclined to press my friends on this; I'm quite sure there will be a lack of effort on your part on rebuilding this broken relationship as there is surely a lack of effort on your behalf in regards to Vidia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I never said who it was who gave the initial or later information. Dick Tracy, it was obviously not Polaris or her allies who gave you false information about Polaris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 (edited) Well this is a good way of reminding people why they don't like Echelon. Your conduct back then was despicable – even as a senior member of an alliance whose job would have been made harder had you not bailed on Polar, I was disgusted by your actions. The wounds in Echelon's public image have largely healed (cauterised by the fires of standing and fighting in Karma, perhaps), and you just went and re-opened them. Brilliant political move. Edit: The fact that you left BLEU and jumped into bed with One Vision wasn't really the problem, though that was rather base politics. The problem was that you signed an MADP (let's just say that again, an MADP) with Polar, and then as soon as you had any obligations under that treaty (which was almost immediately), you just horribly and totally failed to fulfil them. Edited December 17, 2009 by Bob Janova Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyGrub Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Without a statement by Grub in it, this thread has extremely little value. This thread has no value regardless of my posting. I will confirm the following however. I had no knowledge of Echelon's intentions re BLEU until Sam and his band of thugs tried to engineer the removal of Polaris from BLEU by back stabbing in the corridors of power. Most of our allies didn't buy the bullcrap and stayed loyal and committed allies... and are to this day some of our closest friends.. and Echelon and MCXA choose their path. I will confirm that both these alliances received information from a source we were close to at the time but rapidly grew away from. I will confirm the information they received was faulty and indeed largely false. I will confirm that blind freddy could have seen that and that a real ally would have stood by their friends rather than take the pieces of silver on offer. I will also confirm that Caffine and I have spoken several times at length about improving the relationship between Polaris and Echelon. I will also confirm that I have told Caffine that any such relationship would be subject of an extremely long and difficult road. The mood in Polaris is simple, we are happy to move on, but we will not auto-trust people that have betrayed us so publicly and so violently. I strongly believe that Echelon went beyond betrayal and relished the exercise, approaching their work with an enthusiasm I did not expect. Caffine wants to rebuild the bridges, that is admirable and maybe his efforts will be beneficial. The rest of Echelon have a job to do as well and until they do something, Polaris wont be overly impressed by comments such as made by memoryproblems, who wants to wash his hands of everything that took place before he came to government. o/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevanovia Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 And this is strong evidence that treaties are just getting handed out like candy these days. You sign a MADP and THINK you're being lied to so you cancel. IF you sign a MADP, the strongest bond/treaty that you can have with another alliance...you should do a little more then assume before you cancel. In fact, MADPs should never be cancelled (unless repeat offenses happen...and I mean REPEAT offenses, not just little dinky stuff..I'm talking about immoral crap that happens all of the time) You need to evaluate an alliance before you sign a treaty with them. If you're not going to trust them, then don't sign a treaty....it is that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facade Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Then why the hell did you even make this topic in the first place? He doesn't have the clearance to discuss why he created the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalai Protoss Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 This seems like a vehicle to gain individual attention from the political community. If you can't show us any evidence, like Nintenderek already stated, why did you post this? We can't believe you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffine Posted December 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 (edited) This thread has no value regardless of my posting. I will confirm the following however. I had no knowledge of Echelon's intentions re BLEU until Sam and his band of thugs tried to engineer the removal of Polaris from BLEU by back stabbing in the corridors of power. Most of our allies didn't buy the bullcrap and stayed loyal and committed allies... and are to this day some of our closest friends.. and Echelon and MCXA choose their path. I will confirm that both these alliances received information from a source we were close to at the time but rapidly grew away from. I will confirm the information they received was faulty and indeed largely false. I will confirm that blind freddy could have seen that and that a real ally would have stood by their friends rather than take the pieces of silver on offer. I will also confirm that Caffine and I have spoken several times at length about improving the relationship between Polaris and Echelon. I will also confirm that I have told Caffine that any such relationship would be subject of an extremely long and difficult road. The mood in Polaris is simple, we are happy to move on, but we will not auto-trust people that have betrayed us so publicly and so violently. I strongly believe that Echelon went beyond betrayal and relished the exercise, approaching their work with an enthusiasm I did not expect. Caffine wants to rebuild the bridges, that is admirable and maybe his efforts will be beneficial. The rest of Echelon have a job to do as well and until they do something, Polaris wont be overly impressed by comments such as made by memoryproblems, who wants to wash his hands of everything that took place before he came to government. o/ Thank you Grub. Now that this thread has run it's course (one that in all honesty never should have existed to begin with, it was stupid making this thread) I believe its time to move towards a better future. o/ Edited December 17, 2009 by Caffine1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalai Protoss Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 (edited) So you and Grub have already talked about this at length, but you come on here, revive what has already been discussed privately, give us half the story, and then tell us the discussion has run its course. Brilliant political move. Edited December 17, 2009 by Khalai Protoss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgrum Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 (edited) Now that this thread has run it's course (one that in all honesty never should have existed to begin with, it was stupid making this thread) I believe its time to move towards a better future. you dont really think this has run its course do you? Come on man, surely the lack of fore thought you put into initially has been replaced by the grim reality that you now have to witness a good lashing of your charecter due to the holes present in the data you presented? I find it very unlikely your proclomation is true (it running its course) if your performance thus far in this thread is any indication of your ability to predict outcomes (as you mentioned in your posts as well) then this should go on for some time. Thank you, Respectfully Thorgrum member of the peanut gallery B) Edited December 17, 2009 by Thorgrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Caffine, when you write things like these, I want to kill myself.Lets sum up where the current situation is... NpO (and others) dislike Echelon. Fine, things like this aren't going to change it. I (and the rest of Echelon I believe) wants nothing but the best for Polaris, we've got nothing for or against them, One thing is certain, we can't change what transpired so long ago, so lets just shut the $%!^ up about it. My former NAAC comrade says it the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffine Posted December 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 you dont really think this has run its course do you? Come on man, surely the lack of fore thought you put into initially has been replaced by the grim reality that you now have to witness a good lashing of your charecter due to the holes present in the data you presented? I find it very unlikely your proclomation is true (it running its course) if your performance thus far in this thread is any indication of your ability to predict outcomes (as you mentioned in your posts as well) then this should go on for some time. Thank you, Respectfully Thorgrum member of the peanut gallery B) That's fine, because I'm finished with this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgrum Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 That's fine, because I'm finished with this thread. I dont believe you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Is this the part of history where the winner attempts to rewrite it to story to make themselves look like the innocent victim? Caffeine is many things, but a winner - especially this year - not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empirica Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I never said who it was who gave the initial or later information.Why don't you ask them? I've been trying to rebuild relationships ever since with everybody I could think of. I can confirm I've talked to Caffine more in the past week than in the past year. It'll be a rocky, uphill road for Echelon to garner the type of standing they had with the former BLEU signatories again. But props for trying, and I believe Caffine is making an honest effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Caffeine is many things, but a winner - especially this year - not so much. I just want to know what he did with the information I gave him prior to the Karma War...and why he spent at least some portion of that war cowering while others bled. Because cowardice can be excused to a certain extent...but knowing that war was absolutely coming and not preparing your alliance...words fail me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 You leave a bloc because of the way sponge was acting, which is admitting that you left because you feared what would happen. So, not only did you leave the bloc because you feared what was going to happen to you, you left to join the side that ended up doing exactly as you had feared, only without you on the receiving end. So, congratulations on showing just how cowardly an alliance echelon was. I hope they're not as cowardly today as they were then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drostan Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Protip: Setting the record straight usually entails some form of disclosure rather than vague allusions to information that cannot be discussed. If Polar already knows and you know but won't tell us, then who in the hell is this dicussion meant to benefit? I find it hard to believe that this was a legitimate attempt to bury the hatchet as it were because it certainly reads a lot more like stirring the proverbial pot. Good luck with this. Actually, I don't care either way. Continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I just want to know what he did with the information I gave him prior to the Karma War... lol did you just admit that I think you did? I mean we all knew it but still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Anglia Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Moderator I believe the OP has asked for a lock on this one please? o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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