Nintenderek Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 History has shown this not to be the case. Hint: FPI, they didn't immediately disband, but instead fought for a while. Sponge made sure no terms were ever given. So you can stop making !@#$ up now, because it probably wouldn't have happened. NPO could say they were giving FAN peace if they had just been given another weak, that doesn't make it true. We already went over this. There was no way Sponge could have made sure terms were never given. He was inactive and not emperor. I doubt he even had any government titles at the time besides Imperator Emeritus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) We already went over this. There was no way Sponge could have made sure terms were never given. He was inactive and not emperor. I doubt he even had any government titles at the time besides Imperator Emeritus. Because Sponge immediately lost all influence in NpO upon stepping down! I'm not an idiot, Nintenderek. Sponge could still pull strings. In the end, though, \m/ members went on to found and join alliances that ultimately ran Sponge out of power and rolled Polar. And I think in the end, both sides ended up bawwwing quite a bit (and yes, Polar bawwwwed a lot given what they had done to others. More than NPO is now.) \m/ got their several pounds of NpO flesh and tears, and for all the talk of \m/ doing poorly in the war, in the end Polar hit peace mode rather than fight. So you can drop your "lol\m/" antics Edited December 18, 2009 by Penkala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Because Sponge immediately lost all influence in NpO upon stepping down! I'm not an idiot, Nintenderek. Sponge could still pull strings.In the end, though, \m/ members went on to found and join alliances that ultimately ran Sponge out of power and rolled Polar. And I think in the end, both sides ended up bawwwing quite a bit (and yes, Polar bawwwwed a lot given what they had done to others. More than NPO is now.) \m/ got their several pounds of NpO flesh and tears, and for all the talk of \m/ doing poorly in the war, in the end Polar hit peace mode rather than fight. So you can drop your "lol\m/" antics I'd offer a well-reasoned reply, but I fear you might mistake it for a bawww as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomInterrupt Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 History has shown this not to be the case. Hint: FPI, they didn't immediately disband, but instead fought for a while. Sponge made sure no terms were ever given. So you can stop making !@#$ up now, because it probably wouldn't have happened. I'll go ahead and put you in the afraid of the boogie man category then. Sponge sure did oppress all those folks. He actually possessed the leadership of CIS and Polar that managed the FPI war and controlled their thoughts and actions from far away. I think that technically qualifies him as a witch... Next time I see him I'll see if he floats in water or has any unusual warts. Going along with your line about tests, Polar had one - a test of military competency. They failed. Failed all the way to #2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) I'd offer a well-reasoned reply, but I fear you might mistake it for a bawww as well. Fair enough, kind sir. Failed all the way to #2. Boy you guys sure love to point out meaningless things to assert that you're good at other things! You got beaten down in your war faster than anyone ever has in CN. You also kick $@! at rebuilding, but that doesn't negate your previously poor performance in prior protracted conflicts. Edited December 18, 2009 by Penkala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Frontier Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Because Sponge immediately lost all influence in NpO upon stepping down! I'm not an idiot, Nintenderek. Sponge could still pull strings.In the end, though, \m/ members went on to found and join alliances that ultimately ran Sponge out of power and rolled Polar. And I think in the end, both sides ended up bawwwing quite a bit (and yes, Polar bawwwwed a lot given what they had done to others. More than NPO is now.) \m/ got their several pounds of NpO flesh and tears, and for all the talk of \m/ doing poorly in the war, in the end Polar hit peace mode rather than fight. So you can drop your "lol\m/" antics Won't somebody save us from the big bad Sponge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Boy you guys sure love to point out meaningless things to assert that you're good at other things! You got beaten down in your war faster than anyone ever has in CN. You also kick $@! at rebuilding, but that doesn't negate your previously poor performance in prior protracted conflicts. That honor belongs to the NAAC, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Won't somebody save us from the big bad Sponge? Cool contribution bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Because Sponge immediately lost all influence in NpO upon stepping down! I'm not an idiot, Nintenderek. Sponge could still pull strings.In the end, though, \m/ members went on to found and join alliances that ultimately ran Sponge out of power and rolled Polar. And I think in the end, both sides ended up bawwwing quite a bit (and yes, Polar bawwwwed a lot given what they had done to others. More than NPO is now.) \m/ got their several pounds of NpO flesh and tears, and for all the talk of \m/ doing poorly in the war, in the end Polar hit peace mode rather than fight. So you can drop your "lol\m/" antics actually no. TOP, Gremlins, Umbrella, Valhalla, GGA, MCXA, and what not hit Polaris. to my knowledge not a damn one of those were created by former \m/embers. Umbrella comes closest as being created by former Genmay members. just because former \m/embers joined those alliances means nothing as very few of them had any true say in the matter. also, no one but Polaris ran Sponge out of power. if Polaris wanted Sponge in power, he would have stayed in power regardless of pressure from any outside source. unlike \m/ Polaris does not simply fold under external pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Frontier Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Cool contribution bro. I was pretty proud of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomInterrupt Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Boy you guys sure love to point out meaningless things to assert that you're good at other things! You got beaten down in your war faster than anyone ever has in CN. You also kick $@! at rebuilding, but that doesn't negate your previously poor performance in prior protracted conflicts. I don't know about that. 10 days is pretty fast. Let's not forget the Legion in GW3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Penkala, dude, just shut up already. You're a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) actually no. TOP, Gremlins, Umbrella, Valhalla, GGA, MCXA, and what not hit Polaris. to my knowledge not a damn one of those were created by former \m/embers. Umbrella comes closest as being created by former Genmay members. just because former \m/embers joined those alliances means nothing as very few of them had any true say in the matter. also, no one but Polaris ran Sponge out of power. if Polaris wanted Sponge in power, he would have stayed in power regardless of pressure from any outside source. unlike \m/ Polaris does not simply fold under external pressure. RoK played a huge part in war prep. Guess what alliance Hoo was from? Man, you're like 0/4 today with me Dochartaigh! And yes, Polaris folded under external pressure. They folded when ES was removed from his position in an attempt to prevent war. I really don't get why you're blatantly ignoring history, here, Doch. Yes, \m/ folded. Yes, NpO folded. Stop letting your biases cloud your judgment - it's really straight forward facts (gov being removed to avoid war etc.) Penkala, dude, just shut up already. You're a joke. Don't you hate it when I brings facts to the field? Fact: NpO wasn't going to let \m/ surrender. Fact: NpO hid in peace mode to avoid fighting. Fact: Despite this, they still dropped in NS like a rock. Fact: \m/ disbanded after 10 days. I'll acknowledge the facts, as I always try to do. I acknowledge \m/'s surrender after less than two measly weeks of fighting. It is Polar and their supporters that refuse to accept what happened a year or so ago, instead pointing to their current NS and rankings to somehow prove that they fought extremely well (no idea how that logic works, but whatever). If you're willing to debate me on facts, that's fine. But so far in this thread Penguin has been the only one that's tried (although Hizzy has been relatively good about not making stuff up too). And as usual, NSO provides no factual basis for anything they say. Color me surprised. Edited December 18, 2009 by Penkala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Fair enough, kind sir. Boy you guys sure love to point out meaningless things to assert that you're good at other things! You got beaten down in your war faster than anyone ever has in CN. You also kick $@! at rebuilding, but that doesn't negate your previously poor performance in prior protracted conflicts. \m/ surrendered in less then ten days. Polar lasted much longer then that. If I had to venture out and guess which one performed worse, I'd probably say \m/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) I can't believe you're arguing this. NpO fought and didn't disband. \m/ did. NpO showed more testicular fortitude than \m/. They survived. End of story! EDIT: this post proves how simple truths can be written succinctly in one line. All the facts are here. Edited December 18, 2009 by Mussolandia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackSkellington Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 I'm just wondering how Penkala thinks the evidence of naming 1 alliance actually backs up what he is trying to say. I was unaware that RoK was the main reason Polar was rolled. I need to go rethink my life now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomInterrupt Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 And yes, Polaris folded under external pressure. They folded when ES was removed from his position in an attempt to prevent war. I really don't get why you're blatantly ignoring history, here, Doch. Yes, \m/ folded. Yes, NpO folded. Stop letting your biases cloud your judgment - it's really straight forward facts (gov being removed to avoid war etc.) Yeah, you are pretty much ignorant of everything you are talking about. Sponge's removal had nothing at all to do with avoidance of war and everything to do with the internal demands of the alliance. Sponge was not fit to lead us at that time, and we needed a better Emperor. So I personally removed him fully expecting a war to happen anyway. But we needed a suitable leader to see us into the battle and back out again. Sponge wasn't the right man. Grub was. But no, between the two of us I am sure some bumbling idiot from some unrelated alliance would have more of an idea of what went on then the guy who actually did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) \m/ surrendered in less then ten days. Polar lasted much longer then that. If I had to venture out and guess which one performed worse, I'd probably say \m/ Are you being purposely dense? \m/ had no light at the end of the tunnel; Polar was always going to get peace. Of COURSE Polar isn't going to disband on day 10 when they know if they hold out a few more weeks they'll get peace. Seriously, you can't compare how long they fought because the circumstances under which the decision was made to stop fighting were completely different. Come up with a new argument because that one holds no water. I can't believe you're arguing this. NpO fought and didn't disband. \m/ did. I can't believe you're arguing THIS! Polar was never forced with eternal war. \m/ was. Of course one is more likely to disband than the others. Stop being stupid and comparing apples to oranges, Musso. I'm just wondering how Penkala thinks the evidence of naming 1 alliance actually backs up what he is trying to say. I was unaware that RoK was the main reason Polar was rolled. I need to go rethink my life now... Because that's what I said. I said former \m/ members got their chunk of flesh. I'm beginning to think arguing with Polar supporters is really futile. Most of you aren't willing to acknowledge even basic facts. Hell a few of you have resorted to outright provable lies. I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong if I am, but you're going to need to pony up some proof of your claims, and not just "hurf durf an alliance who knew their surrender would be accepted fought 3 times as long as one who know they had no future hurf durf" Edited December 18, 2009 by Penkala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 If you're willing to debate me on facts, that's fine. But so far in this thread Penguin has been the only one that's tried (although Hizzy has been relatively good about not making stuff up too). And as usual, NSO provides no factual basis for anything they say. Color me surprised. Someone draw him a picture. Even after losing NS and losing the war, Polar NS > 0. \m/ NS = 0 after disbandment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Are you being purposely dense? \m/ had no light at the end of the tunnel; Polar was always going to get peace. Of COURSE Polar isn't going to disband on day 10 when they know if they hold out a few more weeks they'll get peace. Seriously, you can't compare how long they fought because the circumstances under which the decision was made to stop fighting were completely different. Come up with a new argument because that one holds no water.I can't believe you're arguing THIS! Polar was never forced with eternal war. \m/ was. Of course one is more likely to disband than the others. Stop being stupid and comparing apples to oranges, Musso. There is no such thing as an eternal war. Political reality is not stagnant. FAN fought a war for two years. They did not disband. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Fact: NpO hid in peace mode to avoid fighting. Fact: Despite this, they still dropped in NS like a rock. Could you please explain how NpO lost so much NS if they hid in peace mode, since you know so much about the facts and all. Are you being purposely dense? \m/ had no light at the end of the tunnel; Polar was always going to get peace. Of COURSE Polar isn't going to disband on day 10 when they know if they hold out a few more weeks they'll get peace. Seriously, you can't compare how long they fought because the circumstances under which the decision was made to stop fighting were completely different. Come up with a new argument because that one holds no water.I can't believe you're arguing THIS! Polar was never forced with eternal war. \m/ was. Of course one is more likely to disband than the others. Stop being stupid and comparing apples to oranges, Musso. \m/ did have a light at the end of the tunnel. It doesn't make sense to me why anyone would try to surrender after only 10 days of fighting. They could have kept fighting. FAN fought for 2 and a half years. Did they ever give up? No, and look where they are today. Also, Polar didn't know if they were going to get peace or not, and after 10 days I'm sure they wouldn't have. They kept fighting until they were given peace though. Neither alliance was forced with eternal war. So please be quiet because the more you post, the more it looks like you have absolutely and positively no clue what the $%&@ your talking about and that your not reading posts at all. I'm literally repeating myself at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) Someone draw him a picture. Even after losing NS and losing the war, Polar NS > 0. \m/ NS = 0 after disbandment. Someone draw Musso a picture: it doesn't !@#$@#$ matter. I'll spell this out for you. The. Circumstances. Were. Different. If you want to look at war performance, measure metrics that matter - how many hid in peace mode and how many fought, how effectively they fought, how much NS they lost how fast etc. I'd argue that the first isn't relevant either and is unfair to NpO - they chose a tactic. But the second and third are highly relevant, and \m/ seems to come ahead in those to me. NpO wasn't fighting those who wanted it to disband.. that doesn't make their military might any more effective. Also, Polar didn't know if they were going to get peace or not, and after 10 days I'm sure they wouldn't have. Oh please, it was clear from day one that Cit and SF weren't going to force NpO to disbandment. Edited December 18, 2009 by Penkala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) The hilarity in his "apples to oranges" metaphor being, that he is comparing apples to oranges. An alliance that did not disband vs an alliance that did disband. EDIT: The NpO coalition in the NoCB war faced even worse odds than UJP did. You might just be the thickest poster around. Edited December 18, 2009 by Mussolandia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 RoK played a huge part in war prep. Guess what alliance Hoo was from?Man, you're like 0/4 today with me Dochartaigh! And yes, Polaris folded under external pressure. They folded when ES was removed from his position in an attempt to prevent war. I really don't get why you're blatantly ignoring history, here, Doch. Yes, \m/ folded. Yes, NpO folded. Stop letting your biases cloud your judgment - it's really straight forward facts (gov being removed to avoid war etc.) Polaris did not remove ES to prevent a war. we knew regardless that war was coming. i was there in Polaris, were you? i did not think so. RoK played a part in war prep... and? you pluralized but only came up with a single alliance.... good job Penkala, you got me on that one..... i am not ignoring history. \m/ from what Caliph said fought like 1k wars or about 3-4 wars per nation. i know during the SPW, most of the Polars i knew not in PM had 3 defensive wars and 1-2 offensive wars. so i am not sure exactly how Polaris were not involved in as many wars.... i will admit that \m/ for their membership fought many wars, but that was their strategy, one that failed them hard. Polaris went for survival as we figured on a long war. we knew that the alliances lined up against us, wanted to take their pound of flesh and then some. we knew we knew we were gonna end up in a war where we got knocked down hard. come on, i doubt anyone can honestly say they can stand up and fight for a long time against alliances like TOP and Gre who decimated the upper ranks, along with MCXA who also had many upper strength nations. \m/ blames two groups of people it seems for their disbandment: Polaris and their leaders who got banned from CN. most members never seek to take on the blame themselves for not having the spirit or willpower to stay together. not a single member it seems (please prove me wrong, i would love to meet a former \m/ember that actually blames themselves) was willing to attempt to step up and take on the role of leadership. to me, from all that i have heard since \m/ disbanded, \m/ was dead the moment the leadership got banned as no one else in \m/ seemed capable of leading it anywhere. \m/ was a walking zombie that would have disbanded regardless. maybe later if not for the UjW but since ya'll can't seem to think "Gee, my alliance needs me now. we got !@#$ terms but i am gonna fight my hardest and hope for better terms. if not, i will go FAN on their arses and make them pay for it." oh and i know many in Polaris who would have refused to disband Polaris had we gotten terms like those given to \m/ or no terms at all. I was one of them. i went back to Polaris when i essentially had the chance to stay out of the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Oh please, it was clear from day one that Cit and SF weren't going to force NpO to disbandment. It's quite obvious you weren't there then, because nobody knew if Polar would get peace or not. In fact, most people thought they wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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