Quitting CN, going out with a bang

[rsoxbronco1]

Hegemony 2.0

Your actions are outrageous and thoroughly condemnable.

[Branimir]

They could choose not to accept the aid I guess,

Yes, that would be politically distancing themselves fully from their long term member and governmental person going rogue.

but that would be kind of ridiculous as I consider myself to have a debt to MK

And anybody should care, why exactly, that you feel in debt?

So, since you feel in debt, that makes the thing ridiculous,...how does that work I dunno

and because accepting the aid will only make my attacks do less damage. I guess TOP could threaten MK not to accept it but that would only lead to Panfilo losing more, and not benefit TOP in any way.

Heh, yes well less damage,.... Nations you hit are going to feel your sting quite notably, either way. I think it would be acceptable in exchange for knowledge your buddies are not going to profit. Good, strong, political message of don't go there.

Anyway, are you quitting or not? Is this, I am quitting but gonna stay playing for a month or so, or is this the last hit and run salute?

[Khyber]

Later Az, you were my favorite MKer after Airme left. Best of luck out there.

[Chalaskan]

He has the largest warchest in TOP. True story.

Confirming this...

[Inferno]

Wow.

I hope the rest of TOP has significantly better warchests.

war chest what u mean?

[deth2munkies]

But now who's organizing the Austin CN meetups? You know damn well I'm too lazy

In all honesty, have fun, blow !@#$ up, then enjoy RL.

[WarriorConcept]

Yes, that would be politically distancing themselves fully from their long term member and governmental person going rogue.

And anybody should care, why exactly, that you feel in debt?

So, since you feel in debt, that makes the thing ridiculous,...how does that work I dunno

Heh, yes well less damage,.... Nations you hit are going to feel your sting quite notably, either way. I think it would be acceptable in exchange for knowledge your buddies are not going to profit. Good, strong, political message of don't go there.

Anyway, are you quitting or not? Is this, I am quitting but gonna stay playing for a month or so, or is this the last hit and run salute?

1. We don't care what you think. At all really. The rest of the world here seems to be on the common wavelength and you arguing someone's moralities who's quitting is quite hilarious.

2. He feels he's in debt because he's been accepting tech meant for MK to his nation because he thought he'd be using it for MK in the long run, which he now won't be because he's quitting. Hence he'll try to send back the tech to MK so he doesn't feel like he "stole" anything.

3. What?

4. I'm not sure if he's still going to respond but having talked to him last night I can confirm he'll be quitting for good, and considering his reasons I can't fault him at all.

[Buds The Man]

To: Azaghul From: panfilo Date: 11/24/2009 10:58:56 PM

Subject: Unescorted Bombing Attack Report

Message: An unescorted aircraft bombing run has been launched against your nation by panfilo. In the attack you lost 0 defending tanks, 0 cruise missiles, and 0.00 infrastructure. You destroyed 20 attacking bombers. Any existing peace offers that were on the table have been automatically canceled.

Ok I had to lol at this it had to be a joke.

Good luck AZ in that other world you were a huge asset to us all as hero or foe. Enjoy your last round and if u have some nukes to spare i have some workers that need to get off their @#$% and sone nuke juice may do them some good.

God speed and take care hope to see you back should u find the time.

[Anu Drake]

Nuke juice does us all some good.

[flak attack]

Anyway, are you quitting or not? Is this, I am quitting but gonna stay playing for a month or so, or is this the last hit and run salute?

I do believe this is his last hurrah and he's planning on quiting after this round of wars.

[SpiderJerusalem]

Nuke juice does us all some good.

I'll remember that for our duel

Edited November 26, 2009 by SpiderJerusalem

[Branimir]

1. We don't care what you think. At all really.

And that means I am not to express my thoughts? It really does not affect me in my ability to extend criticism when I feel it is due, nor does this really contra argues my expressed standings. By accepting aid, you did not distance your self fully from your long standing member and governmental person going rogue. That has political weight, and would have political consequences if not for reasons I already mentioned,..lack of strength in one cases, lack of any backbone in another.

The rest of the world here seems to be on the common wavelength and you arguing someone's moralities who's quitting is quite hilarious.

I dunno about that, seeing I am not the only one which extended some criticism here. Even your MKers had some reserves, mainly about hitting a demilitarized nation, mebbe, you know, its one of the reasons he stopped.

I dunno as well why is it hilarious to judge this rogue actions, while he is still in game doing in game stuff, he is under judgment within the game. Even Az admitted to that point on the previous page. I can only lol at your comment here.

2. He feels he's in debt because he's been accepting tech meant for MK to his nation because he thought he'd be using it for MK in the long run, which he now won't be because he's quitting. Hence he'll try to send back the tech to MK so he doesn't feel like he "stole" anything.

Irrelevant. Him feeling in debt, is completely irrelevant in changing political aspects of the deed it self and it does not change the fact that you are going to accept riches from your rogue, but no responsibility for his violent actions. Previously, that wouldn't fly, at all.

4. I'm not sure if he's still going to respond but having talked to him last night I can confirm he'll be quitting for good, and considering his reasons I can't fault him at all.

He didn't specify, so I didn't knew. Well, I already send him my OOC good wishes, I hope he does return one day.

[Blacky]

And that means I am not to express my thoughts? It really does not affect me in my ability to extend criticism when I feel it is due, nor does this really contra argues my expressed standings. By accepting aid, you did not distance your self fully from your long standing member and governmental person going rogue. That has political weight, and would have political consequences if not for reasons I already mentioned,..lack of strength in one cases, lack of any backbone in another.

It really is a long and daunting task to come up with proper etiquette where it involves a rogue party and a non-rogue party using the ingame aid function, so much so in fact that's it's probably not worth it and should be left to the involved parties (of which you are not).

From what I can gather, and using a basic amount of logic, sending aid to a rogue could be considered "funding the rogue", this is not the case here.

Were the rogue to be extracting money or tech from their targets and then aiding others, that could be seen as complicity on the part of those accepting the aid, this is not the case here.

In any other scenario especially where it pertains to aiding the wherewithal to perform military tasks, ie;(tech, money and soliders) away from the rogue would be beneficial to the nations whom are being rogued on, and that is the case here. Essentially, you don't have a leg to stand on as far as this goes Brainimir.

I dunno as well why is it hilarious to judge this rogue actions, while he is still in game doing in game stuff, he is under judgment within the game. Even Az admitted to that point on the previous page. I can only lol at your comment here.

Consider this scenario. You have x time to live. It is entirely up to you how you will spend the last of your days. Some choose to leave quietly, others to go out with a bang. But either way once this is said and done there will be nothing left to judge. Azaghul's nation will be no more, and I think it's fair to say he has given more to the community (even with this right here) than he has taken from it.

Irrelevant. Him feeling in debt, is completely irrelevant in changing political aspects of the deed it self and it does not change the fact that you are going to accept riches from your rogue, but no responsibility for his violent actions. Previously, that wouldn't fly, at all.

Which is partly why you and your ilk were ousted from power.

[Branimir]

Essentially, you don't have a leg to stand on as far as this goes Brainimir

Can hardly agree to this, obviously, as I explained.

Trade link to a rogue is what it is. A connection with implications and here political implications. Complete distancing not achieved, while the terrorist rogue will do his damage, his victims will see profit to his buddies as well as own losses. I wouldn't be happy about that, 300 tech levels bigger damage or not at that level. Am not even talking about the cheering of his actions here by some of the profiting buddies as well as others.

... should be left to the involved parties (of which you are not).

Oh, really? Its a matter of public record now, as Az opened this nuke rogue diary here, and I have every right to pass my judgment as a member of the public about matters brought to the public eye. I call it as I see them, as do you.

Consider this scenario. You have x time to live. It is entirely up to you how you will spend the last of your days.

Am I arguing that he has (or you) no freedom to do what he wants? Hardly.

I am judging it, as I can. As he acknowledged himself, as any rational being would.

But either way once this is said and done there will be nothing left to judge.

Hardly, what will be left is the damage to those nations and tech richer Mk nations.

Azaghul's nation will be no more, and I think it's fair to say he has given more to the community (even with this right here) than he has taken from it.

I am not here to judge Az life work, but his rogue actions. His life work is irrelevant in judging his rogue act as going nuke rogue is what it is-- a terrorist act of max violence.

Which is partly why you and your ilk were ousted from power.

Yes, we were terrible in holding people accountable for what they do. Whatever, we are the ultimate evil and nuclear terrorist is a hero not to be judged even when he hits demilitarized nations. Cant go against bias.

[Blacky]

Trade link to a rogue is what it is. A connection with implications and here political implications.

You kind of walked into my next line of reasoning, thanks for that. It's even less of an issue than say "trading" with a rogue as it provides a bonus to the nation. What it comes down to is complicity. Accepting aid does not entail complicity whatsoever, unless of course money is being funneled out of the nations which are being raided. In a fullscale nuclear war where it is 6v1, that is not the case. Hence why I said you did not have a leg to stand on.

Complete distancing not achieved, while the terrorist rogue will do his damage

That word. I do not think it means what you think it means

his victims will see profit to his buddies as well as own losses. I wouldn't be happy about that, 300 tech levels bigger damage or not at that level. Am not even talking about the cheering of his actions here by some of the profiting buddies as well as others.

I don't know, I'd be quite happy knowing my opponent could do 3-6% less damage on me.

I am not here to judge Az life work, but his rogue actions. His life work is irrelevant in judging his rogue act as going nuke rogue is what it is-- a terrorist act of max violence.

Yes, we were terrible in holding people accountable for what they do. Whatever, we are the ultimate evil and nuclear terrorist is a hero not to be judged even when he hits demilitarized nations. Cant go against bias.

An adequate response to that is this: lolwut

Edited November 26, 2009 by Blacky

[Branimir]

It's even less of an issue than say "trading",..

First, to elaborate, I miss used terms and that is my error though out of context of my post thus far it is clear what I meant.

Not trade, but aid link is what it is. I explained this already to full extent as a sweat deal, your long term member and governmental person hits people you dislike, like that TOP guy and NPO, they get hurt, you get his tech and no responsibility.

Sorry, cant work that way in my view.

That word. I do not think it means what you think it means

I do, dunno if you do.

An adequate response to that is this: lolwut

Actually, hardly adequate, childish yes, of complete irrelevance yes, but hardly adequate.

Seems some people can get away with everything without any critique or even judgment being passed on them, I thought we were removed from power exactly for this reason. Dunno now really. Cant fight bias.

[WarriorConcept]

Yup the world will surely hate us now after we accepted aid from a rogue that makes said rogue's attacks weaker.

[Londo Mollari]

I am not here to judge Az life work, but his rogue actions. His life work is irrelevant in judging his rogue act as going nuke rogue is what it is-- a terrorist act of max violence.

Yes, we were terrible in holding people accountable for what they do. Whatever, we are the ultimate evil and nuclear terrorist is a hero not to be judged even when he hits demilitarized nations. Cant go against bias.

It's not all about you.

[Style #386]

Yup the world will surely hate us now after we accepted aid from a rogue that makes said rogue's attacks weaker.

I hate you. :colbert:

Mushroom Kingdom is immoral.

[Denial]

It's funny because Pacifica set the precedent legitimising accepting aid from rogues in the Great War era.

[Bob Janova]

I've never really understood why that's bad. The tech and money isn't going to go to the people he rogued on anyway. Particularly now de-teching a rogue reduces the damage they do, you're actually doing the people he rogues on a favour by taking the aid.

[jerdge]

To be honest Paul, IC morality has nothing to do with rogue-quitting. I play a moralist but when I get bored with CN I'll probably want some wars with people I dislike to eke the last ounce of fun out of the game, too. It's an occupational hazard (I've been rogued on before) and there isn't an IC response to it, just take the damage and move on. Azaghul is effectively outside the IC world already.

I think that you tried to address Sir Paul's IC remarks with a completely OOC reasoning, that IC doesn't make any sense (it doesn't "exist") and that is thus probably off the mark.

Just sayin'.

Can hardly agree to this, obviously, as I explained.

Trade link to a rogue is what it is. A connection with implications and here political implications. Complete distancing not achieved, while the terrorist rogue will do his damage, his victims will see profit to his buddies as well as own losses. I wouldn't be happy about that, 300 tech levels bigger damage or not at that level. Am not even talking about the cheering of his actions here by some of the profiting buddies as well as others.

I hope you're not here suggesting that OOC commentary and cheering should be ground for any IC repercussion. Not the old "there's no IC/OOC line", please...

The remaining of your considerations, and the replies you got, are all acceptable IC-ly, but also a bit "misplaced" in a farewell thread, IMHO.

[Blacky]

I always enjoyed reading Azaghul's posts I always thought they were well though-out, reasoned and logical. Perhaps you mightn't have known it but you were one of my favourite posters. I will miss you. Farewell, fine sir.

[Branimir]

...."misplaced" in a farewell thread, IMHO.

Which is also a nuke rogue declaration and a diary with some updates on the rogue event. Debate about this action as such here are hardly misplaced.

I hope you're not here suggesting that OOC commentary and cheering should be ground for any IC repercussion.

Maybe I am suggesting that I don't consider them OOC entirely, but IC.

Anyway, damage is done and nobody will ever take any responsibility for it. Shame, there was potential for some drama and fun to be had

Edited November 27, 2009 by Branimir

[flak attack]

your long term member and governmental person hits people you dislike, like that TOP guy and NPO, they get hurt, you get his tech and no responsibility.

One person. Panfilo is the only guy he hit out of dislike. He hit the NPO guy for tradition's sake and the other two because they were easy targets.