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Shoulda been a Cowboy Update


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AGW Overlords has made it clear via private channels that they intend to enter the conflict against Sengoku. Pursuant to our paperless treaty with ourselves, we hereby declare war against AGW Overlords.

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2 minutes ago, Morphine said:

Now this is just asinine. This could've been resolved diplomatically 

 

Absolutely, it could have. It's unfortunate that TSC chose not to take that route and that AGW-O supports them.

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Why don't you guys just !@#$@#$ declare on everybody. This !@#$ is just !@#$@#$ stupid. Anyways have fun since you have treaties with anyone that can be an actual threat. I give a week or two before everyone else fights your wars instead.

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2 hours ago, Auctor said:

AGW Overlords has made it clear via private channels that they intend to enter the conflict against Sengoku. Pursuant to our paperless treaty with ourselves, we hereby declare war against AGW Overlords.

 

LOL. all that private channels to resolve issue accomplished was to cause enough embarrassment to trigger an attack.  Salute for bothering to declaring war this time.  Here's an excerpt (and source of the cowboy reference for the curious)

 

 Hi hartfw,
Appreciate the details ... reading log and DoWs.

Did Sengoku (specifically MattTheCelt) attack Sandstorm without Sengaku declaring on Sandstorm?

Do you plan to expel Matt for this violation?

I can see Sandstorm's response on the Forums http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/forum/70-alliance-announcements-ic/

But no active steps by Sengaku.

... and how (on earth) did you let this alleged important target leave on June 21 with no action for days and days and days. Understand if it was just sloppy mixup in time of war, but please cowboy up and take responsibility. Game log confirms his PM ended on 6/24.

Cheers, unruly

 

Asked the question twice more when hartfw kept replying without answering it .

 

Whatever ...  We'll keep our white hats on and circle the wagons on the frontier.

 

For the record, Morphine and Immortal Junka got it right.

 

1 hour ago, Immortan Junka said:
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7 minutes ago, Steve Buscemi said:

I believe the Sengoku-Sengoku treaty is just a PIAT so I don't recognize your treaty activation here. 

 

It's paperless. I highly advise Non Grata avoid telling people what they can and can't do with their paperless treaties or there will be consequences in the future. Maybe not today and maybe not ever, but karma is unstoppable.

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Just now, Auctor said:

 

It's paperless. I highly advise Non Grata avoid telling people what they can and can't do with their paperless treaties or there will be consequences in the future. Maybe not today and maybe not ever, but karma is unstoppable.

We over at Non Grata have always made up words for paperless treaties.  We just do not have the abstract thinking necessary to imagine words on a paper that doesn't exist.

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8 minutes ago, Auctor said:

 

It's paperless. I highly advise Non Grata avoid telling people what they can and can't do with their paperless treaties or there will be consequences in the future. Maybe not today and maybe not ever, but karma is unstoppable.

 

RIP Caustic

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4 hours ago, Immortan Junka said:

Honestly TSC was pretty dumb about how they went about this. When SNX hit the fugitive traitor Masterchief777 we didn't see GATO make a huge fuss and start a war with us over it. So not sure what makes TSC's case different.

Arguably because Sengoku hasn't had an active war with SPATR in about a month now. As explained in the other topic, they attacked before we could actually give them a response beyond my personal opinion, and so forced the issue. 

 

Having been cc'd on the conversation between hart and unruly, I would argue that Sengoku probably just wants to declare and couldn't care less about diplomacy. Well, maybe hart does. He seems to be reasonable discussing this matter (with me, anyways), even though we disagree. Auctor's more of a "do what we want or we'll nuke you, because we're Oculus and we can" type of diplomat, it seems. Strong-arming is the single least-effective form of diplomacy when it comes to us.

 

I've openly admitted that we should have been more aware, but they chose to escalate before we could even decide whether we'd reach an agreement or not, so here we are.

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6 hours ago, Morphine said:

Now this is just asinine. This could've been resolved diplomatically 

Now why in the blue hell would Oculus want it resolved diplomatically?  Every single alliance not neutral and not actively supporting Oculus's wars poses a potential threat.

 

Funny how Oculus was whining when DoomHouse and Doom beat down alliances, but somehow when Ocuulus does it its fine.  Either something is bad or its not, its not bad if one party does it and good when another party does it.  

 

Bunch of hypocrits.

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2 hours ago, Auctor said:

 

It's paperless. I highly advise Non Grata avoid telling people what they can and can't do with their paperless treaties or there will be consequences in the future. Maybe not today and maybe not ever, but karma is unstoppable.

Karma is however heavily depended on having the NS to back it up.  And nobody has that NS outside of Oculus.  So no, there will be no Karma.

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7 hours ago, Immortan Junka said:

Honestly TSC was pretty dumb about how they went about this. When SNX hit the fugitive traitor Masterchief777 we didn't see GATO make a huge fuss and start a war with us over it. So not sure what makes TSC's case different.

 

I don't know if this is necessarily comparable, I don't know the situation surrounding Masterchief777 but presumably he as an individual had antagonised SNX, thus SNX understandably wanted to hit him, GATO understandably didn't care to defend someone who severely pissed off his previous alliance, so there is no need for conflict.

 

In this case Emperor Mic just happened to be on an AA at war with Oculus, he fought some defensive and offensive wars against Oculus, then escaped into peace mode, and a little while after that changed AA's. Understandably some people in Oculus might be concerned that this tactic might be used to rebuild and then jump back into the fight, but there is no reason why a more diplomatic approach could have been taken, could Sengoku simply not have asked Mic, or TSC on his behalf, to confirm he renounces his membership of SPATR and withdraws from the conflict, or something along those lines? Auctor acts as if Sengoku now permanently hates all past and present members of SPATR, all for the actions of the leader who didn't even consult the rest of the leadership, let alone the regular membership.

 

Considering the number of alliances Sengoku was already at war with (active wars with Sparta, NADC, and MI6, in a state of war with NEW, SPATR/MONGOLS, and possibly others) I don't see any good reason why they couldn't let 20K NS and 12 wonders quit the fight, once a suitable agreement had been reached, other than that they were warmongers who just want to "hit" someone else at any provocation and let their blocmates do most of the work despite easily being able to deal with TSC themselves.

 

That isn't necessarily condoning of TSC or Alex in this instance, there doesn't appear to have been much an effort to reach a diplomatic solution on Mic's behalf, and I agree that it is against convention to accept him in the first place, though I don't necessarily agree with that convention in this case. Regardless once Mic was attacked on the TSC AA it's not as if Alex had much choice, not defending someone on your AA who is under attack means you pretty much cease to be an AA rather quickly.

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8 hours ago, Alex0827a said:

Auctor's more of a "do what we want or we'll nuke you, because we're Oculus and we can" type of diplomat, it seems.

 

I will not tolerate such accusations. Auctor is a brave and honorable man. 

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4 hours ago, Blackatron said:

 

I don't know if this is necessarily comparable, I don't know the situation surrounding Masterchief777 but presumably he as an individual had antagonised SNX, thus SNX understandably wanted to hit him, GATO understandably didn't care to defend someone who severely pissed off his previous alliance, so there is no need for conflict.

 

In this case Emperor Mic just happened to be on an AA at war with Oculus, he fought some defensive and offensive wars against Oculus, then escaped into peace mode, and a little while after that changed AA's. Understandably some people in Oculus might be concerned that this tactic might be used to rebuild and then jump back into the fight, but there is no reason why a more diplomatic approach could have been taken, could Sengoku simply not have asked Mic, or TSC on his behalf, to confirm he renounces his membership of SPATR and withdraws from the conflict, or something along those lines? Auctor acts as if Sengoku now permanently hates all past and present members of SPATR, all for the actions of the leader who didn't even consult the rest of the leadership, let alone the regular membership.

 

Considering the number of alliances Sengoku was already at war with (active wars with Sparta, NADC, and MI6, in a state of war with NEW, SPATR/MONGOLS, and possibly others) I don't see any good reason why they couldn't let 20K NS and 12 wonders quit the fight, once a suitable agreement had been reached, other than that they were warmongers who just want to "hit" someone else at any provocation and let their blocmates do most of the work despite easily being able to deal with TSC themselves.

 

That isn't necessarily condoning of TSC or Alex in this instance, there doesn't appear to have been much an effort to reach a diplomatic solution on Mic's behalf, and I agree that it is against convention to accept him in the first place, though I don't necessarily agree with that convention in this case. Regardless once Mic was attacked on the TSC AA it's not as if Alex had much choice, not defending someone on your AA who is under attack means you pretty much cease to be an AA rather quickly.

 

Sometimes a pragmatic approach is better than a black and white approach. It's a question of protecting the interests of your current members, which Alex didn't seem to place above a foreigner coming from an unrelated war. 

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Oh it's lit now!

 

Despite my excitement, I'm having trouble understanding why we're throwing this banger.. 

1) Nation in a state of war with Oculus flees

2) TSC harbors said enemy (and he is an enemy- 22 wars with Oculus, defensive or offensive makes no difference)

3) Sengoku continues its wars with said nation despite his attempts to flee

4) TSC calls vote on how to respond (to which only one person responded according to peonage) and decides that what is essentially a ghost is worth putting every nation on the AA directly into the line of fire without even waiting to hear what the membership wanted to do.  

5) ???? Sengoku is bad ????

6) AGW O bulks up and gives Sengoku the heads up that war is coming

7) Sengoku declares

8) Party time?

 

Whatever. who cares anymore. 

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24 minutes ago, tobbogon said:

Oh it's lit now!

 

Despite my excitement, I'm having trouble understanding why we're throwing this banger.. 

<snipped>

 

 

Is simple. Not allies with Sengoku means open target. You can put all the blah blah blah around it you want, imagine all sorts of intents and manifestations, infer vicious threats abounding, yet it is simple. Sengoku is the current wee bully with the big friends.  It will change eventually, as these things often do, but until then, enjoy the ride.

 

 

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