Imperial Decree From Sengoku

[berbers]

Floating between AA's, especially for the purpose of rogueing another alliance, does not exclude one from the repercussions of their actions. Since you and riley appear to be indicating that you have dual membership in other alliances it seems that you are also saying that your other AA's have sanctioned (pun intended) your actions or at the very least don't care that some of their members are acting in a way that could be potentially detrimental to them.

 

 

The difference here is that Hart sanctioned a nation (who left his AA) that was hitting the ally of several of his allies at their request. Bones responded in typical Bones fashion and sanctioned Hart (a government member of an established AA). If people were upset about the original sanction, the appropriate response would have been to contact Sengoku and ask them about it rather than respond aggressively.
 

 

I wasn't referring to Addaff, Isolator or myself when I made those comments about nations floating about AA's, I was talking about the people that were hit on the Mongols and SPaTR AA's.  Here's how it looks from my angle:

 

Berbers, Isolator, Addaff make an AA separate and distinct from any other AA

That AA declares war against Valhalla

Isolator gets cute and spies Roq, triggering an Umbrella assault

Umbrella gets Isolator sanctioned (which I don't agree with, as this was not a rogue attack)

Berbers and Addaff leave the original AA and join King Cyan's AA as our beef was with Valhalla and not Umb

IRON and VE engage people hitting Valhalla from KC's AA (totally legit, allies helping defend against another AA)

Hartfw sanctions Addaff on pink with no consultation or attempt at diplomatic resolution and breaks a bunch of TC's for unconnected individuals (I do not agree with this)

BONES, a senator, sanctions Hartfw for his earlier unwarranted sanction (I would have just used diplomacy and had the sanction on Addaff removed, but BONES does things his way, I do things my way)

Sengoku then hits everyone on SPaTR and Mongols, even though BONES is not the leader of SPaTR, nobody else on Mongols did anything and some of those on the Mongols AA are dual members with other AA's

 

I can categorically state I did not have dual member status that would provide protection with any AA, we created our own AA and did what we wanted.  Sengoku applied collective punishment against multiple individuals for the actions of one person.

 

 

It's also common knowledge that one of the reasons people try to do this (and certainly the reason in this scenario) is so that they can go off and have fun raiding or w/e whilst giving their "other" alliance the plausible deniability of "well they aren't really ours atm." - but at the same time if something goes really wrong, they can wield the power of their connections as a potential threat to let them off easy.

So you end up at a point where an alliance is not responsible for the "dual members" and dual members are not responsible for any of the alliances they claim allegiance to. It's a great way to have your cake and eat it too.

But there's a point where a line is crossed, and when the leader of your merry bunch of raiders sanctions a leader of Oculus, you can't suddenly claim "sorry nothing to do with me I'm just a dual member". If they wanted to be DBDC members they could have stayed there and enjoyed both the perks and limitations of that. Can't have one without the other.

 

I think there seems to be some confusion, three people made an AA and decided to declare war on Valhalla, this was not connected to BONES in any way.  None of those three claimed any protection from anyone, although we do object to using sanctions against us.  Bones clearly has a vision of what pink should look like when it comes to sanctioning, and he clearly thought Hart crossed a line by wielding the sanctions in such a manner.

 

The fact is, if Hart had not utilized sanctions against a legitimate AA at war, none of this would have happened.  And they overreacted to the actions of one senator by hitting everyone, without even attempting dialogue, even though their actions precipitated the crisis.  The only dual members who were wronged here were the ones on the Mongols and SPaTR AA's who did nothing wrong.

 

 

Berbers being just the latest example of this. 

 

Nah, I was fine with Valhalla's allies helping them out, it was war after all.  I just don't like people throwing sanctions around like that on a sphere that has very limited uses of those.

 

 

 

 

Leave it at a nation level? I don't think we've been in the same universe for the last how many years. I can't even take that as anything other than a joke, because that's not at all how things work. You can maybe, and I mean maybe, bring "where was the diplomacy!?" into the mix (which imo was out when BONES unilaterally acted without any discussion, as far as I am aware anyway), but do not waste time with 'between individuals' nonsense. That's just not how this works at this stage.

 

Sengoku acted to counter the obvious threat imposed by MONGOLS. They would have responded, you know it, I know it. I'm sure if DBDC really wants to they can sue for peace with those nations, I doubt Sengoku would mind given their hands will be full. And maybe SPATR would not have gone, however based on rhetoric I see it was still a distinguished possibility. But to pretend it makes no sense or otherwise breaks from logic is quite frankly disingenuous. You can't even say it breaks from precedent, preemptive strikes aren't new, they were used in several of the last few wars for Janax's sake.

 

And don't give me any of that "using that logic" nonsense. rileyaddaff was sanctioned on proper grounds as many before him have been and many after will be, the fact he was sponsored by Doomsphere is irrelevant as Sengoku is not a Doomie, is not in PECS (in fact they refused to join in the first place because of BONES, and iirc BONES liquidated SPATR's part in PECS when he raged that one time), and is otherwise unconnected to them. BONES conducted an act of aggression, in Cuba's words war, cut and dry. There have been larger wars fought over much less and the anchor Doomsphere alliances are by no means a beacon of virtue in that department, much less unofficial rogue pocket AA's sponsored by Doomsphere.

 

 

 

 

My apologies, he's just listed as a leader on their wiki page, has a habit of deciding their treaties, switches on and off the SPATR AA bi-monthly, and remains their acting senator. You're right, no connection at all, and no reason SPATR would back him or send ghosts to his AA of Mongoloids.

 

 

 

Selling them down the river before or after openly supporting your insurgency against IRON's ally? If it's before, you'd think an alliance as big and powerful as DBDC would have actually done something about it, as the old saying goes.

 

 

Addaff was not sponsored by Doom, none of us were.

 

We have no idea what Mongols would have done, maybe used diplomacy?  But they didn't really have a choice did they?

 

In terms of leaving it at a nation level, Commander Bean raided Valhalla, but you didn't see anyone run in to attack TAO.  Why?  Because people talked and resolved the situation, which is what should have happened here.  And yes TAO was a DBDC protectorate, but Mongols is a SPaTR protectorate and they could easily have talked to them before reacting militarily.

 

Overall, I just don't understand why one sanction from BONES caused a dogpile on everyone around him without even a whisper of diplomacy, especially considering some of the nations that were hit.

 

And yes I am putting my nation where my mouth is, I am joining up with Mongols to help defend against this aggression :D

[Mogar]

"Weak" Link would be the most obvious conclusion.

[Auctor]

If only we'd followed Valhalla's august example. Thanks for that insight, berbers.

[Lord Hitchcock]

If only we'd followed Valhalla's august example. Thanks for that insight, berbers.

Diplomacy a second time would have clearly resolved any further issues.

[Auctor]

Diplomacy a second time would have clearly resolved any further issues.

Can't tell if that's meant to be funny or not?

[murtibing]

Aside from SPATR and MONGOLS, Sengoku is also attacking Kaskus (close ally of SPATR) without formal declaration of war.

Additionally SPATR is under attack from "alliance" Reavers, "ally" of Sengoku. They haven't issued a formal declaration of war though.

SPATR Military Doctrine (enacted by our Leader Sgt Gus) stipulates that SPATR won't request assistance from our allies in case of direct attack. But we won't stop them from coming to our aid either. And we are indeed receiving help.

I would like to thank our allies Kaskus for providing assistance against Reavers.

I would also like to thank our friends Monsters Inc for attacking World Freedom Federation, a protectorate of Sengoku and Reavers. This is a reprisal action. Sengoku attacked SPATR, although it was MONGOLS who sanctioned their senator, not SPATR. Now MInc is letting Sengoku and their associates taste their own medicine. So once again, thanks Monsters!

 

Can we sign a treaty with you too? I want in on this.

 

If you are so keen on fighting against SPATR and/or MONGOLS, you can join one of the alliance affiliations which we are at war with. I'm going to list them for your convenience:

 

1) Sengoku

2) Reavers

3) Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism

 

(GOONS are only at war with MONGOLS.)

 

Well didn't the world just get interesting.

I thought they are one in the same apart from DK which seems to have a stable membership unlike the other two.
 

 

SPATR membership is actually very stable. It is seldom that someone is granted membership or that someone resigns or has his membership rescinded.

 

You are probably confusing people switching alliance affiliations with actual membership being granted or rescinded.

 

 

I have been sanctioned for over a year on pink for sending 9mil and 4k soldiers in exchange for 200 tech from a WTF nation that was well below 15,000 ns, I don't think you have a very good precedent case as to the use of sanctions as it is.

 

Bones offered you to remove that sanction right away (with my support for this decision - because of my ancient ties to RIA), but you refused and instead you were complaining about sanction in this venue. And now you just can't wait to fight us...

 

 

So this will have to expand in some way for Sengoku to pull off the win militarily, unless a diplomatic solution is found first.

 

No there won't be any diplomatic solution. SPATR was directly attacked. And Sgt Gus told us long time ago what will happen if SPATR is directly attacked. If someone doesn't like Gus' SPATR Defence Plan they can leave. I'm with SPATR till the end...

 

 

Bones committed an act of war against Sengoku and still hasn't bothered to discuss it.

 

Bones is senator and he decides who to sanction, not SPATR Leadership. Only once SPATR Leadership interfered with it. That was when Bones sanctioned two members of Animalz on GOONS request. SPATR Leadership decided that sanctions against Animalz should be lifted and that no sanction request from GOONS should be ever granted. And Bones removed those sanctions.

 

 

Because the longstanding precedent has really always been "war with the leader of an AA is war with the AA". Are we pretending MONGOLS wouldn't have responded? Are we pretending SPATR wouldn't have responded?

 

SPATR wouldn't have responded to attack on MONGOLS. That was key part of The Plan. The Plan wasn't even created by Bones. It was created by some other high-rank SPATR members. Sanction against hartfw wasn't part of The Plan. It was just Bones' improvisation. The war with Sengoku is hence only a distraction. But The Plan is also being set in motion.

[shahenshah]

 
I wasn't referring to Addaff, Isolator or myself when I made those comments about nations floating about AA's, I was talking about the people that were hit on the Mongols and SPaTR AA's.  Here's how it looks from my angle:
 
Berbers, Isolator, Addaff make an AA separate and distinct from any other AA
That AA declares war against Valhalla
Isolator gets cute and spies Roq, triggering an Umbrella assault
Umbrella gets Isolator sanctioned (which I don't agree with, as this was not a rogue attack)
Berbers and Addaff leave the original AA and join King Cyan's AA as our beef was with Valhalla and not Umb
IRON and VE engage people hitting Valhalla from KC's AA (totally legit, allies helping defend against another AA)
Hartfw sanctions Addaff on pink with no consultation or attempt at diplomatic resolution and breaks a bunch of TC's for unconnected individuals (I do not agree with this)
BONES, a senator, sanctions Hartfw for his earlier unwarranted sanction (I would have just used diplomacy and had the sanction on Addaff removed, but BONES does things his way, I do things my way)
Sengoku then hits everyone on SPaTR and Mongols, even though BONES is not the leader of SPaTR, nobody else on Mongols did anything and some of those on the Mongols AA are dual members with other AA's
 
I can categorically state I did not have dual member status that would provide protection with any AA, we created our own AA and did what we wanted.  Sengoku applied collective punishment against multiple individuals for the actions of one person.
 
 
 
I think there seems to be some confusion, three people made an AA and decided to declare war on Valhalla, this was not connected to BONES in any way.  None of those three claimed any protection from anyone, although we do object to using sanctions against us.  Bones clearly has a vision of what pink should look like when it comes to sanctioning, and he clearly thought Hart crossed a line by wielding the sanctions in such a manner.
 
The fact is, if Hart had not utilized sanctions against a legitimate AA at war, none of this would have happened.  And they overreacted to the actions of one senator by hitting everyone, without even attempting dialogue, even though their actions precipitated the crisis.  The only dual members who were wronged here were the ones on the Mongols and SPaTR AA's who did nothing wrong.
 
 
 
Nah, I was fine with Valhalla's allies helping them out, it was war after all.  I just don't like people throwing sanctions around like that on a sphere that has very limited uses of those.
 
 
Addaff was not sponsored by Doom, none of us were.
 
We have no idea what Mongols would have done, maybe used diplomacy?  But they didn't really have a choice did they?
 
In terms of leaving it at a nation level, Commander Bean raided Valhalla, but you didn't see anyone run in to attack TAO.  Why?  Because people talked and resolved the situation, which is what should have happened here.  And yes TAO was a DBDC protectorate, but Mongols is a SPaTR protectorate and they could easily have talked to them before reacting militarily.
 
Overall, I just don't understand why one sanction from BONES caused a dogpile on everyone around him without even a whisper of diplomacy, especially considering some of the nations that were hit.
 
And yes I am putting my nation where my mouth is, I am joining up with Mongols to help defend against this aggression :D

Mongols seem to have taken ownership of your unprovoked attacks. Edited March 17, 2016 by shahenshah

[Isolatar]

Mongols seem to have taken ownership of your unprovoked attacks.

 

Do you want to know the best thing about having friends? They'll see you're in trouble and will support you, even if you didn't ask them. I don't recall a single member of Helheim request their sanction be removed. Why? Because we knew we were in a fight. Glorton and I got sanctioned for a reason I'd agree with and that was fighting Umbrella when our main target was Valhalla. Bones swoops in and removes said sanctions. Your unnecessary request to get Addaff sanctioned caused Sengoku to lose their upper tier. Because of you, hartfw has lost over 40k NS in just a few days.

 

We should have targeted a spineless alliance such as yours instead of Valhalla.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Isolatar

[Lord Hitchcock]

Can't tell if that's meant to be funny or not?

It's irrelavent, just as the attempt to somehow link the Valhalla war... With sanctions from Mongols... To SPTR. There isn't any.

SPTR had zero stake in any of this. Kaskus had zero stake in any of this.

Really the only 2 talking points pertaining to the war are:

1) Valhalla drama

2) A BONEs (who was in Mongols) sanction

Neither of which link to SPTR or Kaskus. Edited March 17, 2016 by Lord Hitchcock

[hartfw]

It's irrelavent, just as the attempt to somehow link the Valhalla war... With sanctions from Mongols... To SPTR. There isn't any. SPTR had zero stake in any of this. Kaskus had zero stake in any of this.

Really the only 2 talking points pertaining to the war are:

1) Valhalla drama

2) A BONEs (who was in Mongols) sanction

Neither of which link to SPTR or Kaskus.

 

 

If you want to keep bringing up Kaskus, you should do your homework.  Kaskus engaged first:

http://www.cybernations.net/alliance_wars.asp?ID=10104

[Isolatar]

 

 

If you want to keep bringing up Kaskus, you should do your homework.  Kaskus engaged first:

http://www.cybernations.net/alliance_wars.asp?ID=10104

 

And you should probably do yours. Reavers attacked SPATR. All Kaskus is doing is defending SPATR from aggression.

[Auctor]

And you should probably do yours. Reavers attacked SPATR. All Kaskus is doing is defending SPATR from aggression.

Reavers defended us. Why wouldn't we defend them?

[hartfw]

Reavers defended us. Why wouldn't we defend them?

 

Because Kaskus only had a stake in (first) declaring wars, not being declared on back.  Keep up with the spin.

[Rhizoctonia]

 

I wasn't referring to Addaff, Isolator or myself when I made those comments about nations floating about AA's, I was talking about the people that were hit on the Mongols and SPaTR AA's.  Here's how it looks from my angle:

 

Berbers, Isolator, Addaff make an AA separate and distinct from any other AA

That AA declares war against Valhalla

Isolator gets cute and spies Roq, triggering an Umbrella assault

Umbrella gets Isolator sanctioned (which I don't agree with, as this was not a rogue attack)

Berbers and Addaff leave the original AA and join King Cyan's AA as our beef was with Valhalla and not Umb

IRON and VE engage people hitting Valhalla from KC's AA (totally legit, allies helping defend against another AA)

Hartfw sanctions Addaff on pink with no consultation or attempt at diplomatic resolution and breaks a bunch of TC's for unconnected individuals (I do not agree with this)

BONES, a senator, sanctions Hartfw for his earlier unwarranted sanction (I would have just used diplomacy and had the sanction on Addaff removed, but BONES does things his way, I do things my way)

Sengoku then hits everyone on SPaTR and Mongols, even though BONES is not the leader of SPaTR, nobody else on Mongols did anything and some of those on the Mongols AA are dual members with other AA's

 

I can categorically state I did not have dual member status that would provide protection with any AA, we created our own AA and did what we wanted.  Sengoku applied collective punishment against multiple individuals for the actions of one person.

 

 

 

I think there seems to be some confusion, three people made an AA and decided to declare war on Valhalla, this was not connected to BONES in any way.  None of those three claimed any protection from anyone, although we do object to using sanctions against us.  Bones clearly has a vision of what pink should look like when it comes to sanctioning, and he clearly thought Hart crossed a line by wielding the sanctions in such a manner.

 

The fact is, if Hart had not utilized sanctions against a legitimate AA at war, none of this would have happened.  And they overreacted to the actions of one senator by hitting everyone, without even attempting dialogue, even though their actions precipitated the crisis.  The only dual members who were wronged here were the ones on the Mongols and SPaTR AA's who did nothing wrong.

 

 

 

Nah, I was fine with Valhalla's allies helping them out, it was war after all.  I just don't like people throwing sanctions around like that on a sphere that has very limited uses of those.

 

 

Addaff was not sponsored by Doom, none of us were.

 

We have no idea what Mongols would have done, maybe used diplomacy?  But they didn't really have a choice did they?

 

In terms of leaving it at a nation level, Commander Bean raided Valhalla, but you didn't see anyone run in to attack TAO.  Why?  Because people talked and resolved the situation, which is what should have happened here.  And yes TAO was a DBDC protectorate, but Mongols is a SPaTR protectorate and they could easily have talked to them before reacting militarily.

 

Overall, I just don't understand why one sanction from BONES caused a dogpile on everyone around him without even a whisper of diplomacy, especially considering some of the nations that were hit.

 

And yes I am putting my nation where my mouth is, I am joining up with Mongols to help defend against this aggression :D

 

 

The said AA you formed, you all weren't even in anymore when the sanction even happened.  So said AA, isn't even in play here.  You then join another AA, who the only member at the time has been sanctioned on pretty much every color possible for the reasons, "rogue."  So basically, you joined an AA which is seen by senators on the colors (Black, Orange, Purple, White, Blue, and green) as a Rogue.  Not only that, several people have posted here saying they've been sanctioned on Pink for much less, and even Minc (who hates anyone on Sengoku side) has said that DK has looked to get sanctions on their alliance on other colors...are you saying their AA isn't a legitmate AA, but a rogue?  I mean if you're calling them just a rogue AA, I would agree with you, just as I'd call your "legitimate AA" you formed.  Just because 3 of you got together IMO to make up some AA to attack on, doesn't mean you're suddenly not looked at by others as anything more then some 3 rogues.

 

And to go along with this, Isolator has even used the term rogue in describing his most recent actions.  The likes of "I was going to quit CN, and then went rogue, now I want to stay in CN."  This, one of your founding members of your so called AA, describing his actions, as Rogue.  

 

Hell even most heads on pink aren't against trade sanctions on the likes of Riley for his and your current actions.  If anything, it sounds like Doomsphere are mainly upset with the aid sanction because Riley was sending DK/DBDC tech.  Many also agree that what Bones action was an act of war, or using the sanction as a "weapon of war."

 

And finally, so now were claiming the alliances as a whole are not to be hit/attacked for the actions of choices of their Leader or Government?  Only the person who did the crime should pay?  Because I'm pretty sure every war regular members are hit solely because of the actions of their Government or Leader.  Hell, people are hit because of a grudge/decisions of a past leadership of their alliance that they weren't even a member of back then.  I mean, can't one say the same for the members of Valhalla that you're attacking?  The decisions and reasons you dislike Valhalla are likely not due to many that have been hit....so why should they pay.  Aren't they being wronged for something they didn't do or make the decision to do?  Fact is, alliances as a whole are hit or the actions or choices of their Government, this is no different here.  Bones is the leader in game of Mongols, and he also uses SPATR as a revolving door to join and leave when he feels the urge to.  

Edited March 17, 2016 by Rhizoctonia

[Isolatar]

Reavers defended us. Why wouldn't we defend them?

 

Let's assume the sanction was an act of war accepted by everyone. Bones has people all over pink voting for him, ranging from DK to SPATR to Kaskus. Bones formed his own alliance so SPATR can avoid the backlash of his actions. You attack Mongols (perfectly justifiable) but declare war on SPATR. Is it safe to assume RON will follow in your footsteps and declare war on DK because of our actions? Kaskus has the right to defend SPATR from Reavers.

[Auctor]

Let's assume the sanction was an act of war accepted by everyone. Bones has people all over pink voting for him, ranging from DK to SPATR to Kaskus. Bones formed his own alliance so SPATR can avoid the backlash of his actions. You attack Mongols (perfectly justifiable) but declare war on SPATR. Is it safe to assume RON will follow in your footsteps and declare war on DK because of our actions? Kaskus has the right to defend SPATR from Reavers.

No one quibbles with what Kaskus can or can't do. I just don't see any reason they wouldn't be countered after doing it. Are you purposefully being obtuse or do I need to get Lowsten to explain it to you?

[shahenshah]

 
Do you want to know the best thing about .....

I just wanted to know about Mongols providing sanctuary to those who hit our allies without provocation.

[Mogar]

If you are so keen on fighting against SPATR and/or MONGOLS, you can join one of the alliance affiliations which we are at war with. I'm going to list them for your convenience:

 

1) Sengoku

2) Reavers

3) Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism

 

(GOONS are only at war with MONGOLS.)

 

 

Bones offered you to remove that sanction right away (with my support for this decision - because of my ancient ties to RIA), but you refused and instead you were complaining about sanction in this venue. And now you just can't wait to fight us...

As a government member, I am held to a higher form of responsibility, and abandoning my AA would indicate an absence of my responsibility to my alliance. I only join single member alliances when I am not in any form of governmental capacity, and as such my actions do not reflect on the alliance(s) I am a member of.

Yeah, I played politics with the situation, as everyone else in the cyberverse is free to do, and as Sengoku is doing so currently.

[Isolatar]

And to go along with this, Isolator has even used the term rogue in describing his most recent actions.  The likes of "I was going to quit CN, and then went rogue, now I want to stay in CN."  This, one of your founding members of your so called AA, describing his actions, as Rogue. 

 

I was going to quit CN originally because of how stagnate this game is but thought attacking another alliance would make me more active. It happened. I became more active albeit I still don't give two shits about this game.

 

Hell even most heads on pink aren't against trade sanctions on the likes of Riley for his and your current actions.  If anything, it sounds like Doomsphere are mainly upset with the aid sanction because Riley was sending DK/DBDC tech.  Many also agree that what Bones action was an act of war, or using the sanction as a "weapon of war."

 

The main issue was your attempts of controlling pink sphere. You knew calling in sanctions on Addaff for attacking Valhallan nations would ruin trades in Doom. Furthermore, you also knew Addaff was giving away his tech to DK and DBDC, reducing the amount of damages received by your nations and Val's. It's not our fault your alliance is so incompetent that they didn't decide to contact a member of DK's government to tell them what's going on.

 

And finally, so now were claiming the alliances as a whole are not to be hit/attacked for the actions of choices of their Leader or Government?  Only the person who did the crime should pay?  Because I'm pretty sure every war regular members are hit solely because of the actions of their Government or Leader.  Hell, people are hit because of a grudge/decisions of a past leadership of their alliance that they weren't even a member of back then.  I mean, can't one say the same for the members of Valhalla that you're attacking?  The decisions and reasons you dislike Valhalla are likely not due to many that have been hit....so why should they pay.  Aren't they being wronged for something they didn't do or make the decision to do?  Fact is, alliances as a whole are hit or the actions or choices of their Government, this is no different here.  Bones is the leader in game of Mongols, and he also uses SPATR as a revolving door to join and leave when he feels the urge to.  

 

And while we're at it, there are many SPATR, Mongol and TAO nations who also have dual membership with DBDC, using that AA as a "revolving door to join and leave". When can we expect your declaration of war on DBDC or are they not a legitimate alliance?

[Isolatar]

No one quibbles with what Kaskus can or can't do. I just don't see any reason they wouldn't be countered after doing it. Are you purposefully being obtuse or do I need to get Lowsten to explain it to you?

SPATR and Mongols are two completely different alliances with many common members. The reason why Bones created a new alliance was so SPATR could avoid the backlash of his actions, along with a few other reasons. Why do you think he still isn't on SPATR's AA? You declared war on SPATR and now Kaskus is defending them. I don't give two shits if you're countering them. You got yourself into this trouble and you're going to reap what you sow.

[Rhizoctonia]

 
I was going to quit CN originally because of how stagnate this game is but thought attacking another alliance would make me more active. It happened. I became more active albeit I still don't give two !@#$% about this game.
 
 

 
You referred to it as going rogue...for which Berbers clearly states that wasn't the purpose of the AA...so please tell me which one is it?  Did a founding member of said AA go "rogue" or not?  At least get your stories straight.  
 

The main issue was your attempts of controlling pink sphere. You knew calling in sanctions on Addaff for attacking Valhallan nations would ruin trades in Doom. Furthermore, you also knew Addaff was giving away his tech to DK and DBDC, reducing the amount of damages received by your nations and Val's. It's not our fault your alliance is so incompetent that they didn't decide to contact a member of DK's government to tell them what's going on.
 

 
 
Haha, I do enjoy the spin you're desperately trying to make with your first two sentences.  I didn't know asking for a sanction on a rogue was now seen as attempting to control the pink sphere.  If that's the case, there sure are a lot of alliances looking to control different spheres because they merely asked for a sanction on a rogue hitting them or an ally.  Cute attempt, but completely ridiculous.  I guess I will have to repeat that many leaders of DK or DBDC aren't even refuting that the sanction on trades wasn't warranted.  So the ruined trades don't seem to upset them because they can understand a sanction due to Riley's current actions.  
 
Also, we weren't aware of this.  I'm sorry that two visible aid's to nations suddenly means that he's giving away his tech.  Maybe next time, he can choose to not send the aid secretly to these nations so it's more visible for everyone to see.  There was no need to contact DK, as Riley wasn't a member of DK, and again, made it pretty unaware he was just giving his tech away freely.  What was I suppose to tell them was going on?  That Riley was roguing an ally of ours....I'm pretty sure they knew, and pretty sure that's a lot more visible then secret aid.  I'm sorry not every alliance knows the ends of outs of every alliance or what rules they have.  This DK program has since been revealed to IRON as we talk with WC. Edited March 17, 2016 by Rhizoctonia

[tobbogon]

And while we're at it, there are many SPATR, Mongol and TAO nations who also have dual membership with DBDC, using that AA as a "revolving door to join and leave". When can we expect your declaration of war on DBDC or are they not a legitimate alliance?

 
Sengoku has a treaty with DBDC.  We'd never attack an ally. 

[berbers]

Mongols seem to have taken ownership of your unprovoked attacks.

 

No, I begged them to let me join so I could get in on the action, but you do bring up a reasonable point, I am technically at war with Valhalla at this point and it's not fair of me to cause them trouble to satisfy my bloodlust.

 

 

 

The said AA you formed, you all weren't even in anymore when the sanction even happened.  So said AA, isn't even in play here.  You then join another AA, who the only member at the time has been sanctioned on pretty much every color possible for the reasons, "rogue."  So basically, you joined an AA which is seen by senators on the colors (Black, Orange, Purple, White, Blue, and green) as a Rogue.  Not only that, several people have posted here saying they've been sanctioned on Pink for much less, and even Minc (who hates anyone on Sengoku side) has said that DK has looked to get sanctions on their alliance on other colors...are you saying their AA isn't a legitmate AA, but a rogue?  I mean if you're calling them just a rogue AA, I would agree with you, just as I'd call your "legitimate AA" you formed.  Just because 3 of you got together IMO to make up some AA to attack on, doesn't mean you're suddenly not looked at by others as anything more then some 3 rogues.

 

And to go along with this, Isolator has even used the term rogue in describing his most recent actions.  The likes of "I was going to quit CN, and then went rogue, now I want to stay in CN."  This, one of your founding members of your so called AA, describing his actions, as Rogue.  

 

Hell even most heads on pink aren't against trade sanctions on the likes of Riley for his and your current actions.  If anything, it sounds like Doomsphere are mainly upset with the aid sanction because Riley was sending DK/DBDC tech.  Many also agree that what Bones action was an act of war, or using the sanction as a "weapon of war."

 

And finally, so now were claiming the alliances as a whole are not to be hit/attacked for the actions of choices of their Leader or Government?  Only the person who did the crime should pay?  Because I'm pretty sure every war regular members are hit solely because of the actions of their Government or Leader.  Hell, people are hit because of a grudge/decisions of a past leadership of their alliance that they weren't even a member of back then.  I mean, can't one say the same for the members of Valhalla that you're attacking?  The decisions and reasons you dislike Valhalla are likely not due to many that have been hit....so why should they pay.  Aren't they being wronged for something they didn't do or make the decision to do?  Fact is, alliances as a whole are hit or the actions or choices of their Government, this is no different here.  Bones is the leader in game of Mongols, and he also uses SPATR as a revolving door to join and leave when he feels the urge to.  

 

The AA I joined wasn't sanctioned, a member of it was.  We left the AA we created and joined up with another AA, at no point did we go rogue.  KC might have started off as a rogue entity, but we forged an AA together with a purpose, we even had a charter but we Addaff lost it in the sanctions.

 

I personally view the gratuitous use of sanctions by Hart as an affront against Admin and I fight under his banner!  I don't think MINC should be sanctioned either, regardless of whoever wants them sanctioned.

 

Your last paragraph about Valhalla is invalid, we declared war against an AA, all Bones did was sanction one nation, and then received a disproportionate response when multiple AA's were attacked.

 

 

 

I just wanted to know about Mongols providing sanctuary to those who hit our allies without provocation.

 

See above 

[Franz Ferdinand]

As a government member, I am held to a higher form of responsibility, and abandoning my AA would indicate an absence of my responsibility to my alliance. I only join single member alliances when I am not in any form of governmental capacity, and as such my actions do not reflect on the alliance(s) I am a member of.

Yeah, I played politics with the situation, as everyone else in the cyberverse is free to do, and as Sengoku is doing so currently.

You could alternatively use his list of alliances to sign a treaty with, however that would merely just come off as jumping on the bandwagon. I saw you requested dual membership with Sengoku as well but were rebuffed in #sengoku, no doubt to get involved. If you want to get involved in the fight, you'd more than likely have to resign your government position otherwise you should focus on your own members and commitments.

[Qazzian]

 

 It's not our fault your alliance is so incompetent that they didn't decide to contact a member of DK's government to tell them what's going on.

 

 

And at what point does BONES not contacting Sengoku, who dealt with a rogue group the way rogues have been dealt with for years, have the same fault pointed out by you? He did not contact gov to deal with the situation through diplomacy, he committed what's regarded as an act of war.