Imperial Decree From Sengoku

[Steve Buscemi]

I'm starting to like you guys.

 

A lone tear is escaping my old weary eyes.

[hartfw]

 

When you declare war on SPATR then you declare war on Bones too, since he is member and one of SPATR Leaders. So why this redundancy? And why the saxon genitive? (I'm just curious).

 

Sengoku attacked SPATR, although it was MONGOLS who sanctioned their senator, not SPATR. 

 

Appreciate you directly clearing this up.

[murtibing]

 

 

Appreciate you directly clearing this up.

 

It's simple: Bones sanctioned you as member of MONGOLS, not as a member of SPATR.

 

If you declare war on Bones, you don't necessarily declare on SPATR (customary rule: member not currently on the SPATR AA is not entitled to protection). But if you declare on SPATR, you always declare on Bones (customary rule: SPATR proper under attack - every member defends regardless of AA).

[hartfw]

 

It's simple: Bones sanctioned you as member of MONGOLS, not as a member of SPATR.

 

If you declare war on Bones, you don't necessarily declare on SPATR (customary rule: member not currently on the SPATR AA is not entitled to protection). But if you declare on SPATR, you always declare on Bones (customary rule: SPATR proper under attack - every member defends regardless of AA).

 

SPTR is responsible for the war actions of one of SPATR Leaders.  There are no hairs fine enough to split that.

[James Spanier]

When you declare war on SPATR then you declare war on Bones too, since he is member and one of SPATR Leaders. So why this redundancy? And why the saxon genitive? (I'm just curious).

SPTR is responsible for the war actions of one of SPATR Leaders.  There are no hairs fine enough to split that.

 
You're both wrong. BONES has zero connection to SPATR, obviously Sgt Gus is the one and only leader SPATR has ever had, and BONES voluntarily rescinded all connection to protect SPATR. Clearly you need to seek more knowledge from Maester Unknown Smurf.

[Devilyn Caster]

No one is on the short end of the stick here. SPaTR have exactly the war they set out to provoke and we get to stand by our principles as an alliance.

Opportunism and grandstanding on the OWF are not the greatest of principles for an alliance to embody, mate. Seriously, the rose tinted glasses that you view the world through have a thick tint on them. No one here expects any more or any less from Senjoku than what you've shown in the past.

Good luck in your wars, and may admin have mercy on your soul - for BONES shall have none.

[rileyaddaff]

I'm starting to like you guys.
 
A lone tear is escaping my old weary eyes.

careful now, i don't want you to dehydrate, and croak on us. Old timers are an endangered species, any member who is found guilty as the cause for their death will be fined $50K.

[murtibing]

Just one more misconception I forgot to address previously:

 

My apologies, he's just listed as a leader on their wiki page, has a habit of deciding their treaties,

 

 

SPATR treaties are not decided by any single person. SPATR treaties are decided by the SPATR Leadership as a whole. Entering into treaties and cancelling treaties requires unanimity in the SPATR Leadership.

[James Spanier]

Just one more misconception I forgot to address previously:

 

 

SPATR treaties are not decided by any single person. SPATR treaties are decided by the SPATR Leadership as a whole. Entering into treaties and cancelling treaties requires unanimity in the SPATR Leadership.

 

My apologies again it seems, I had assumed that time SPATR rage quit all of its treaties that was only BONES. Still, my point stands with a minor addendum: "is included in the process of their treaties". Let me know if it's still off, getting the record straight is important to me.

[murtibing]

 

My apologies again it seems, I had assumed that time SPATR rage quit all of its treaties that was only BONES.

 

I have no idea what you are referring to.

 

All SPATR treaties are still valid. This war changes nothing in this regard. Our treaties are:

 

1) MDOAP+ with Kaskus,

2) ODOAP with NEW,

3) PIAT with MInc,

4) Merger and perpetual protection treaty with Badlands,

5) Pink Economic Co-Prosperity Settlement with Kaskus, DBDC, TOP and Argent.

 

 

 

Still, my point stands with a minor addendum: "is included in the process of their treaties". Let me know if it's still off, getting the record straight is important to me.

 

Yes, Bones is included in the process of our (SPATR) treaties.

Edited March 20, 2016 by murtibing

[Auctor]

But you aren't in SPaTR! Why would SPaTR give up its sovereignty like that to a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AND IN EVERY WAY DISTINCT alliance?

[James Spanier]

 

I have no idea what you are referring to.

 

All SPATR treaties are still valid. This war changes nothing in this regard. Our treaties are:

 

1) MDOAP+ with Kaskus,

2) ODOAP with NEW,

3) PIAT with MInc,

4) Merger and perpetual protection treaty with Badlands,

5) Pink Economic Co-Prosperity Settlement with Kaskus, DBDC, TOP and Argent.

 

 

 

Yes, Bones is included in the process of our (SPATR) treaties.

 

Well fair enough. I seem to recall an incident, perhaps it was a smaller scale than I remember.

[Margrave]

But you aren't in SPaTR! Why would SPaTR give up its sovereignty like that to a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AND IN EVERY WAY DISTINCT alliance?

CapsLock...

Not even once.

[Qazzian]

Just one more misconception I forgot to address previously:

 

 

SPATR treaties are not decided by any single person. SPATR treaties are decided by the SPATR Leadership as a whole. Entering into treaties and cancelling treaties requires unanimity in the SPATR Leadership.

 

 

 

It's simple: Bones sanctioned you as member of MONGOLS, not as a member of SPATR.

 

If you declare war on Bones, you don't necessarily declare on SPATR (customary rule: member not currently on the SPATR AA is not entitled to protection). But if you declare on SPATR, you always declare on Bones (customary rule: SPATR proper under attack - every member defends regardless of AA).

 

So BONES isn't a member of SPaTR, and his actions are distinct from SPaTR. BUT! As a member he'd have to defend SPaTR if they're attacked, and he's in SPaTR leadership influencing treaties and direction.

 

If Frawley had temporarily left the AA, with full knowledge he could come back at any time with full rank and privilege, and then attacked someone, do you really think people would disconnect that action from the rest of the NPO? Now, what if Frawley had previously threatened that same group before, while under the banner of the NPO? Do you think that group and their allies would just decide that Frawley is the only threat, or that the rest of Pacifica would also come in to play?

[hartfw]

 

 

 

So BONES isn't a member of SPaTR, and his actions are distinct from SPaTR. BUT! As a member he'd have to defend SPaTR if they're attacked, and he's in SPaTR leadership influencing treaties and direction.

 

If Frawley had temporarily left the AA, with full knowledge he could come back at any time with full rank and privilege, and then attacked someone, do you really think people would disconnect that action from the rest of the NPO? Now, what if Frawley had previously threatened that same group before, while under the banner of the NPO? Do you think that group and their allies would just decide that Frawley is the only threat, or that the rest of Pacifica would also come in to play?

 

 

Pretty sure the delusion of separation was given up here:

 

 

Actually, all of SPATR Security Council except for one person (Sgt Gus) are currently in MONGOLS.

 

 

Now we can carry on without that inanity.

[Orville Reginbacher]

I agree with hartfw and Qazzian.

 

Pretty sure that when leadership of an alliance has a track record of willy-nilly switching AAs but still having membership, rights, and responsibilities to the old AA, the AA is a distinction without a difference.

 

This is very similar to a legal concept in Lawyeria called Piercing the Corporate [or AA] Veil:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil

 

If it's good enough for Lawyeria law, it's good enough for international law.

[Qazzian]

I agree with hartfw and Qazzian.

 

Pretty sure that when leadership of an alliance has a track record of willy-nilly switching AAs but still having membership, rights, and responsibilities to the old AA, the AA is a distinction without a difference.

 

This is very similar to a legal concept in Lawyeria called Piercing the Corporate [or AA] Veil:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil

 

If it's good enough for Lawyeria law, it's good enough for international law.

 

Bringing OWF eLaywering to a whole new level :)

[murtibing]

You can think of MONGOLS as armed forces, whereas SPATR proper is civilian population. By attacking SPATR proper Sengoku and company decided to attack peaceful alliance affiliation which wasn't any threat.

[Qazzian]

You can think of MONGOLS as armed forces, whereas SPATR proper is civilian population. By attacking SPATR proper Sengoku and company decided to attack peaceful alliance affiliation which wasn't any threat.

 

A group of peaceful people who jump ship to another AA to launch attacks, following the lead of their entire Security Council, except one.

[shahenshah]

Is Bones on radio silence? It's important to have perspective of the insitigator of this conflict.

[shahenshah]

 
The war with Sengoku is more or less random, as it was prompted by Bones' sanction.
 
The war with GOONS and (by extension) Umbrella isn't random. Have you ever heard about GOONS-MONGOLS war that took place in 2012? After that war, the group of ex-MONGOLS, led by Sgt Gus, founded SPATR. They received help with rebuilding from Bones. Sgt Gus developed a grand strategy to build small, but very strong alliance. Do you understand now why the war against GOONS was started by MONGOLS?
 
Personally, I don't care about GOONS or Umbrella one way or another. I wasn't member of the original MONGOLS. I joined SPATR in January 2014. I didn't have to take part in the Plan. Everyone had option to leave. But just leaving and taking with myself that 40k tech which I received free of charge (I had about 20k tech when joining SPATR)? And leaving people who saved my skin when I started aggressive wars against FAN, TCB and WAPA? That would be dishonourable. So I'm with SPATR till the end.

Wow, 40k worth of free tech! I wanna join in on the scheme. Edited March 20, 2016 by shahenshah

[Orville Reginbacher]

 

Bringing OWF eLaywering to a whole new level :)

It's what we do.

[murtibing]

 

A group of peaceful people who jump ship to another AA to launch attacks, following the lead of their entire Security Council, except one.

 

Those who went to MONGOLS weren't peaceful obviously. Only those who stayed in SPATR were peaceful.

 

Anyways, this attack on the peaceful population won't be forgotten.

 

 

Wow, 40k worth of free tech! I wanna join in on the scheme.

 

I received one-time invitation to SPATR. Although originally I were not told that I'm going to receive tech for free. I thought I will have to buy it like before. That was smart of them to not told me in advance, so they know I'm not joining just for free tech (like you would). I was invited because high-rank member vouched for me. This system works for the most part, although it isn't ideal, as we had members leaving and taking with themselves tech or (in case of low-tier nations) money. One of our ex-members is in NPO, BTW. But he was sending tech, not receiving it.

Edited March 20, 2016 by murtibing

[Petro]

You can think of MONGOLS as armed forces, whereas SPATR proper is civilian population. By attacking SPATR proper Sengoku and company decided to attack peaceful alliance affiliation which wasn't any threat.

 

Or if that is too much to wrap your head around can we just think of it as wanting the benefits of going to peace mode without having to deal with the pesky repercussions of doing so?

[Lord Hitchcock]

 

Or if that is too much to wrap your head around can we just think of it as wanting the benefits of going to peace mode without having to deal with the pesky repercussions of doing so?

 

Had Sengoku even attempted messaging the SPTR leader, SrgtGus, diplomatically before this war? You are trying to make SPTR has being 'the bad guy' in this conflict and yet you didn't even attempt diplomatic relations with their leader prior to the conflict.

 

"Guilty by association" much?

Edited March 20, 2016 by Lord Hitchcock